The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
EStone523
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Sin does not exist because there is no proven god that exists

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
EStone523
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 899 times Debate No: 120277
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (1)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Believe in yourself and not the corrupted totally insane bumbling babbling baby brained bible looking over your shoulder with every move you make with something as ludicrous as "sin". You are far too good for that!

Now you go right ahead and prove that sin exists in this world because it doesn't. How can it when you cannot prove that the prime motivator god exists? Without a god, There's no sin. Here's another thought. . . This unproven "god" is supposed to be about love, Kindness, Care, Peace, Harmony, Etc etc etc and yet pretty much all of the bible preaches other than faith is its contradictory "sin". Go figure.

Here's something else. . .
Sin is contradictory and hypocritical in your bible. Thus sin does not exist.
Does every man sin? Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810) No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, Because they are the children of God. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God. . (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, And he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, Then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, And the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

Matt Dillahunty "What is sin and why should I care about it? I understand why I should live an ethical life and treating people in certain ways, We have secular foundations for moral systems. But sin from the christian perspective is a crime against god or god"s nature itself - right? If god makes the rules and you violate it, That"s a sin. Well what if god makes a rule that you should kill your child, Does that make it good? Caller " Yeah that"s where I do things that are not aligned in what the bible says. " Matt "Yeah. But are they good things? Do you have good reasons to have that the things you are doing are not immoral? Like do you have an example? Like don"t confess to a crime or anything. For example, The bible is opposed to homosexuality. Do you think there"s something immoral about those who are homosexuals? " Caller "Uh there"s none that I can think of. " Matt "Yeah me neither. And so if the bible"s opposed to it add the bible is the word of god, And the Koran is opposed to it as well and the Koran is supposed to be the word of god as well, And there are two holy books and let them argue over who god is and what god thinks and until they can come up with a sound secular justification for homosexuality being immoral then I don"t need to pay their views any money because its just an opinion at that point. "

"christianity, At least some flavors of it, Would brand me as a sinner because I"m gay. And that would be the same as if I were raping children. And that"s appalling! So yeah, I don"t buy this "we"re all sinners" crap. We"re all human. And we have human responsibilities to each other. " Jenn Peeples

One other stipulation/ Rule:
dsjpk5 and timmyjames are both disqualified from all voting procedures.
EStone523

Con

I will be referring to bible verses from the New International Version (NIV); I will also be referring to sin as per definitions 1a and 1b from the Merriam-Webster dictionary. The definitions are as follows:

Sin: noun. 1. A. An offense against religious or moral law.
B. An action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible.

Sin Definition: https://www. Merriam-webster. Com/dictionary/sin
Online Bible: https://my. Bible. Com/

Everyone has some minimal belief in sin because to sin is to simply break a rule. The apostle John even explains this in 1 John 3:4, "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, Sin is lawlessness. "

Your argument for sin not existing due to it being "contradictory and hypocritical in your bible" is simply due to a misinterpretation of the Bible. Before I get too deep into my argument, I would like to point out two things to keep in mind:

- The Bible is split into two parts: The Old Testament and The New Testament.
- The Old Testament takes place before the birth of Jesus Christ; The New Testament takes place right before and after the birth of Jesus Christ.

The Old Testament:

You mention in your initial argument the following Old Testament verses: 1 Kings 8:46, 2 Chronicles 6:36, Proverbs 20:9 and Ecclesiastes 7:20. All of these verses were mentioned when you brought up the argument of "yes, Every man sins. " The Old Testament times were drastically different from the times of The New Testament that we now live in. In The Old Testament, Rules were stricter and punishments more severe; there are many different types of sin offerings that take place throughout the Old Testament, Including everything from pigeons (Luke 2:24) to bulls (Leviticus 4:3). There were tons of rules and regulations that went on during the Old Testament times to ensure that God was always honored. It was also during the Old Testament Times that only certain people could hear the voice of God; we call these prophets. These were the people God anointed into leadership positions to guide followers and help keep them away from sin.

Within the Old Testament, There were the Ten Commandments that every follower was required to follow. Failing to obey those commandments could have resulted in severe punishments, Hence why there were the sin offerings to offer up to God as forgiveness for the sins committed. Humans are imperfect by default; we cannot possibly live a perfect life free of mistakes. This is why it's constantly said throughout the Bible (especially in the Old Testament when there was no direct connection between regular people and God) that there is indeed no man without sin.

The New Testament:

The New Testament brought in a new era under Jesus Christ. After the death of Jesus, All sin was washed from every person that has ever lived on Earth. It was immediately after Jesus" death (Matthew 27) that the veil between man and God was torn open, Allowing for every person to now be in direct connection with God (this is why we can all hear his voice today instead of relying on priests and prophets like in The Old Testament). It's with Jesus' ultimate sacrifice that we have the Holy Spirit who guides us and teaches us how to be followers of Christ. 1 John 3:2, 4-6 discusses how we can attempt to live sinless as Christ did, "Dear friends, Now we are children of God, And what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know when Christ appears, We shall be like him, For we shall see him as he is. . . Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, Sin is lawlessness. But you know that he [Christ] appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. "

Followers of Christ understand that we will never be capable of living sinless. We are human, Therefore we will ultimately mess up and sin. It's through the understanding, Though, That when Jesus died on the cross he wiped away every sin we will have ever had. It's through repentance that our sins are wiped clean and God sees us as sinless. That is the very concept of sin in Christianity.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Seasoned beatings. Oh sorry greetings yeah that's what I meant to say its a deliberate miss-steak on my part. Will you never forgiveth my rotten hyde? I hope not. I know shoot me with a yodeling sacred cow from the big white barn where the worst president of all time current sits his lard bottom.

OK let's get right to it. . .
"I will be referring to bible verses from the New International Version (NIV);" Bad idea. Its an abomination as far as translations go. Regardless, It really doesn't matter now does it because no god would be stupid enough to use text, Not ever, Not for any reason, As a form of communication, Correspondence, Declaration, Advertisement, Broadcast, Propaganda, Publication etc etc etc the worst form of communication, Correspondence, Declaration, Advertisement, Broadcast, Propaganda, Publication etc etc etc pe-ir-od.

Let's move on. . .
"Everyone has some minimal belief in sin. . . " WRONG. I happen to be a 100% pure all out man grown atheist who is not stupid enough, Not ever, Not for any reason, To believe in YOUR god until he has the guts to come out from the world's worst game of hid-n-go-seek of all time. Even then I still would not believe in the travesty according to the worthless fictionalized bible, As this egocentric so-called god is nothing but a superior ego god complex in which your bible is entirely about and nothing else. There are billions who know this to be true because they have read the sickening bible. So they have no belief in sin. In order for there to be sin, There must be a god to believe in. There's no proof that this god of the bible even exists. Thankfully. Rightly. Justly. I can't speak for anyone else, Surely, But I am free of sin. I don't carry sin with me like a jetpack like its ordered in the silly NT that nobody should believe in as they should believe in themselves.

"Your argument for sin not existing due to it being "contradictory and hypocritical in your bible" is simply due to a misinterpretation of the Bible. " Oh absolutely 100% wrong. Why? You didn't even address the issue and steered clear of it. Not only that, But it's due to my error and I didn't properly credit it, But its not even mine. It comes from a website that has been standing strong without interruption for at least a decade now.
http://www. Answering-christianity. Com/101_bible_contradictions. Htm
I really like #65. #92 is also a killer. Then #96 is what you are looking for. So please don't tell me I'm misinterpreting when you have no idea how to interpret. Its a HUGE massive hypocritical contradiction.

Let's move on shall we?
"- The Old Testament takes place before the birth of Jesus Christ; The New Testament takes place right before and after the birth of Jesus Christ. " Has nothing to do with anything. Regardless, Christ was a false prophet. Let's see how far down the well you travel before its proven unto you if you believe in christ?

"All of these verses were mentioned when you brought up the argument of "yes, Every man sins. "" That's according to your horrific bible. This doesn't mean in any possible way that every man sins as the bible is a simpleton storybook fable that is NOT evidence of anything except to prove its own failures and demise.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=PYG4xOlA3Fg&t=3085s - Atheist Experience 23. 06 with Matt Dillahunty & Don Baker (listen/ watch the call at 30:30 to find out just how accurate/ inaccurate you bible truly is. This is from last weeks show! Great timing! )

"The Old Testament times were drastically different from the times of The New Testament that we now live in. " Doesn't matter. You either accept all of your bible both the OT and the NT as one book, Or you don't. Here's a video that is a requirement for you to see.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=HRy-UfUYYGk&t=1288s - Atheist Debates: But that's the Old Testament!

"Rules were stricter and punishments more severe;"
OK so you freely admit that your god changed. Well you"d be pretty close to the only supposed christian (don"t worry there"s no such a thing as a christian) to admit this. So congrats as this is what your storybook bible does state and you are thus correct!
Now what you supposed christians don"t get is why any punishments? If this god is a god, This supposed god could have started out with peace, Harmony, Care, Kindness, Love etc etc etc AND KEPT IT. Nah. This supposed god of YOURS is more concerned with evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy etc etc etc. Jealousy? What? From a supposed supreme deity? All jealousy is is anger as disguised fear. Yep, Your god is more concerned with those HUMAN baggage emotions that he has freely admitted to in your trustworthy storybook fable bible.
Even worse, This supposed god of YOURS neatly passed down those baggage emotions down to man so in turn man could learn to hate with at least 1 billion dead on the battlefields alone all in the supposed good name of YOUR god. Great going god. Great going you for worshiping this travesty for what reasoning exactly?
Oh it gets worse, Much worse as there"s not been one instance, Just one, Since YOUR god"s inception, At any time, At any place, For any length of time oh say 30 years or longer, Where there"s been peace. Something to think about.
There has been with the Inca, Nearly all of the native American Indian tribes until YOUR christian brethren sweaty greasy white pig man decided to nearly wipe them out, Gaia Mother Earth, The aborigines, The Buddhists, The Hindus etc etc etc they, Do not in any way practice nor preach evil nor hate the way you pretend christians do. Its not even a close call.

Sin is not needed. Sin is not a requirement. Sin is not a necessity. Only to YOUR god it is in which you cannot even prove exists.

"There were tons of rules and regulations that went on during the Old Testament times to ensure that God was always honored. " I get it. I really do. So let"s test that and see how well you would do. All 6 questions require a "no" answer. If you respond "yes" to any of the 6 questions, Then you are as immoral as YOUR god. Now in saying "no", This means you disobey YOUR god. Ready? Btw, 4 of these 6 questions are taken from the 10 commandments.
According to your god you should be put to death if you blaspheme. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 24:16, According to your god you should be put to death if you work on the sabbath. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 31:14, And Numbers 15: 32-36, According to your god you should be put to death if you curse at your parents. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4, According to your god you should be put to death if you commit adultery. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Leviticus 20:10. That's directly from your 10 commandments. Here are some other things that YOUR god thinks you should be put to death for. . . According to your god you should be put to death if you are a homosexual? Do you think that's a good idea? Y___? N____? Leviticus 20:13, According to your god you should be put to death if you do not worship him. Do you think that's a good idea? Y____? N____? Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5.
So how"d yah do?

"It was also during the Old Testament Times that only certain people could hear the voice of God; we call these prophets. "
Oh you mean like Ezekiel 20:25-26 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, And judgments whereby they should not live; 26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, In that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, That I might make them desolate, To the end that they might know that I am the LORD. "

Ezekiel 14:9 "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, And I will stretch out my hand upon him, And will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. "

1 Kings 22:23 "Now therefore, Behold, The LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, And the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. "

So since YOUR storybook character god is going to be lying to his supposed prophets, Well well well well how do YOU know truth from fiction/ fantasy? You don"t. Its one of the biggest and is a true fatal flaw of YOUR bible.

"These were the people God anointed into leadership positions to guide followers and help keep them away from sin. " Not if people were not told what sin was. How could 99/100ths of the world know what sin was considering the fact that your god only decided to babble in one small itty bitty place on earth AND bring destruction to it with according to the storybook bible genocide after genocide after genocide? I really love it when people like you make stuff up. Please, If anything, Read your bible. Nope, Don"t read it, Believe in yourself instead.

"Within the Old Testament, There were the Ten Commandments that every follower was required to follow. Failing to obey those commandments could have resulted in severe punishments, " Yeah like 4 of them required death as proved a few paragraphs above. Do you think this is proper justice?
Here"s some proper 10 commandments for you"
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=x9weXGtCk7c - Christopher Hitchens Revises the Ten Commandments
Regardless of the 10 commandments" they are true CRAP. Look at it this way" they are all demeaning "thou shalt not"" You have to make them positive and enlightening. Toss out all the commandments that stroke your god"s precious frail fragile ego. There"s 4 of them. Insert at least one that states something to the effect of "thou shalt always honor and protect children and never cause harm unto them. " The 10 commandments are incomplete with 4 commandments stroking god"s ego and leaving a commandment to honor and protect children out!

I'm out of space. I can post in the comments section if you'd like? There's A LOT MORE. Or it will be gotten to in later RDs.
EStone523

Con

I respect your opinion where you say that "It"s an abomination as far as translations go. " While I don"t agree with your opinion, I will be courteous and stick to the traditional King James Version (KJV).

You say that, Essentially, Text is "the worst form of communication correspondence, Declaration, Advertisement, Broadcast, Propaganda, Publication etc etc etc pe-ri-od [SIC]. " Let me ask this: If text-based documents are as bad as you claim, Then why is every important and fundamental thing recorded? We have police reports that are recorded, History textbooks that teach children about their ancestors and the world, The US Constitution and Bill of Rights, The Declaration of Independence, The list could go on for miles. Our entire being can be found in texts-figuratively and literally.

I"m not here to debate the importance of text-based documents, Though. I"m here to debate how sin exists and how God exists within the Christian faith.

"Even then I still would not believe in the travesty according to the worthless fictionalized bible, As this egocentric so-called god is nothing but a superior ego god complex in which your bible is entirely about and nothing else. " It"s after reading this statement that it really hit me that your debates seem to revolve around your emotions. I"ve noticed countless times where you state how "bad" the bible and Christianity and sin and anything remotely close to those topics are, But you"ve given no real examples except for a proposition you stole from Shabir Ally, The writer of that article titled "101 Contradictions in the Bible. " (You can read it here: http://www. Answering-christianity. Com/101_bible_contradictions. Htm) and a few quotes from some people with their opinions (interesting opinions, But still opinions).

My point for explaining the timelines of the Old Testament and the New Testament were for context reasons. It absolutely matters, And I explained why it matters later in my Round 1 debate. I"d be happy to further explain how it is important to understand the context around the Old Testament and New Testament regarding sin and rules and all that though in a later round.

What is some evidence you have that can help your claim that the Bible is a "simpleton storybook fable that is NOT [SIC] evidence of anything except to prove it"s own failures and demise"? How does the Bible prove it"s failures and demise? What are some scriptures you could provide me with?

**I would like to mention that I tried to watch the YouTube videos you included, However I could not get them to play. Can you include the links in your next post so that I can look at the videos? Thank you!

"OK so you freely admit that your god changed. " I never said my god changed. God has many reasons for the things he does, And as a Christian, I put my faith in his decisions. Rules were stricter during the Old Testament times because people"s sins had not yet been paid for by the blood of Jesus (hence another reason context and establishing the timeline between the Old Testament and New Testament was important). God has rules and helps to guides his followers to obey those rules.

"If this god is a god, This supposed god could have started out with peace, Harmony, Care, Kindness, Love etc etc etc AND KEPT IT [SIC]. Nah. This supposed god of YOURS [SIC] is more concerned with evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy etc etc etc". God did start with peace and harmony and care and kindness and love; It"s evident from the very first chapter of the Bible as God created the universe and Adam and Eve (Genesis 1:1-27). It"s evident as God spoke to Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28, "And God blessed them, And God said unto them, Be fruitful, And multiply, And replenish the earth, And subdue it". It was only after Adam and Eve disobeyed God"s initial commandments and ate from the Tree of Knowledge that God had no choice but to banish them from the Garden of Eden and the veil between man and God was closed. Alongside the second part of your comment, Can you please provide some bible verses explaining what you mean when you say that "this supposed god of YOURS [SIC] is more concerned with evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage fury, Jealousy etc etc etc"? I would love to better understand your side from an evidentiary standpoint.

"Passed down those baggage emotions down to man so in turn man could learn to hate with at least 1 billion dead on the battlefields alone all in the supposed good name of YOUR [SIC] god. " Can you provide your evidence for this?

"Sin is not needed. Sin is not a requirement. Sin is not a necessity. Only to YOUR [SIC] god it is in which you cannot even prove exists. " Like I stated in my Round 1 debate, Everyone believes in a concept of sin-even if it"s just the minimal belief of sin being synonymous with rules. You believe murdering is wrong-that"s the same as saying murdering is a sin, Because it"s morally wrong to most people. That"s the secular concept of sin-sin is a wrongdoing.

Let"s move onto your questionnaire. The very first thing I noticed is that all of your questions are based from the Old Testament. Death is not the penalty for committing those sins anymore, As discussed in the New Testament after the death of Jesus Christ. If you were to give me a revised questionnaire based on the new guidelines that are set by Jesus" lifetime on Earth, I"d certainly be willing to take another look at it.

Onto your verses regarding the prophets from the Old Testament:

- In Ezekiel 20, Ezekiel is speaking with other leaders and they are speaking with the Lord about what will happen to Israel, Who was at the time a rebellious country. So yes, That"s a great example of a prophet anointed by God using his gift to speak with the Lord.

- Ezekiel 14 is also dealing with the prophet Ezekiel and the rebellious Israel. Here, The Lord says this, "When any of the Israelites or any foreigner residing in Israel separate themselves from me and set up idols in their hearts and put a wicked stumbling block before their faces and then go to a prophet to inquire of me, I the Lord will answer them myself. I will set my face against them and make them an example and a byword. I will remove them from my people. Then you will know that I am the Lord. " (Ezekiel 14:7-8) This is why God says if a prophet answers the inquiries he shall be destroyed-because the Lord said he will answer the person directly, So the prophet would be a false prophet.

- 1 Kings 22 speaks of a conversation between Jehoshaphat (later known as Ahab), Michaiah, And the King of Israel. In this case, The King and Jehoshaphat sought after Michaiah"s wisdom (Michaiah was a prophet) about whether or not they should go to war at Ramoth Gilead and if they would be victorious. It"s there that Michaiah shares the Lord"s plan: "Michaiah continued: "Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. And the Lord said, "Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there? " " Finally, A spirit came forward, Stood before the Lord and said, "I will entice him. . . I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets, " he said. "You will succeed in enticing him, " said the Lord. "" (1 Kings 22:19-22).

Therefore, Based on looking into the context of these stories, Your claim that God was lying to his prophets is false.

"Not if people were not told what sin was. How could 99/100ths of the world know what sin was considering the fact that your god only decided to babble in one small itty bitty place on earth AND [SIC] bring destruction to it with according to the storybook bible genocide after genocide after genocide? " Everyone who heard about Jesus Christ and God knew about sin. It"s taught in the Bible. Could you explain and show your statistics on 99/100ths of the world not knowing what sin was and be more specific in your claim, I"m having trouble understanding exactly what you"re trying to say. As for the idea that God stayed in one small area of Earth is false, In fact Jesus explicitly tells his disciples in Mark 16:15 to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. " Also, Could you please give some bible verses to explain the genocides you claim happened in the bible. I"m aware of a few religious crusades that were ordained by God, But I can"t think of an explicit genocide happening.

What do you mean by "Yeah like 4 of them required death"? Do you mean that they called for death or that the consequence of them were explicitly death. "The 10 commandments are incomplete with 4 commandments stroking god"s ego and leaving a commandment to honor and protect children out! " Can you give some more explanation for this, I"m not quite entirely understanding the point you"re trying to make.

I look forward to seeing your next rebuttal, Thank you for making this debate both thought-provoking and challenging.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

(cont'd from RD1)
Hence why there were the sin offerings to offer up to God as forgiveness for the sins committed. " Once again, In only one teeny tiny little splatch of land. YOU also have no idea if its true. You only assume its true.

Humans are imperfect by default;" Your god who, Once again you cannot prove exists, Is by default according to supposed christians responsible for everything that exists. All life, Cars, Houses, Tornados, Cancer, Wars, Genocides, All diseases, All famines etc.

"we cannot possibly live a perfect life free of mistakes. " Neither can YOUR god in which you believe/ imply is perfect. Newsflash: He"s not. Not even close. After all, He created man, With all of his broken bones, Ruptured lungs, Heart attacks, Diseases such as cancer, Influenza, Etc.
"This is why it's constantly said throughout the Bible (especially in the Old Testament when there was no direct connection between regular people and God) that there is indeed no man without sin. " Again, You have yet to prove YOUR god even exists and you cannot have sin without your god,
Hmmmm and strangely the OT is correct, And the NT is false.

Moving on. . .
Here's some video's to prove christ was false and or did not exist. . .
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=6lqC8fvIspY - jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra) #1
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=KXAGpCTiGlQ - The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens) #2
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=apS_679ru50 - Did jesus Exist? #3
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=9AzwJ9d4i1g - Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier) #4
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=x-slAgzJmdU - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus? #5
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=AJMd5UiTeys - Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel #6 ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years? ") Um duh. Do you REALLY THINK jesus existed?
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=lDpEeHD54Mo&t=1397s - The Gospel According to Carrier #7 (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, But scrap all the mythology)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=O5AordEPtok - Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David #8
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=hmKTUOzXRkI&t=188s - Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, Or how not to debate an Atheist! #9 (skip to the 7:00 mark! ) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=NAqEmYJcXX8 - What did jesus do for you? #110

"After the death of Jesus, All sin was washed from every person that has ever lived on Earth. " Strange that it was ever created by an imperfect god to begin with. So once again, Your unproven god DOES CHANGE. Oh and btw, What gives this nobody the right to change YOUR god"s laws? Because nowhere in YOUR acidic bible does your god give this supposed jesus fellow, In which also, There"s no proof for his existence, The right to change any of his supposed "father"s" laws? But much worse happened, By far, Than did in the OT, Because what happened came the concept of hell.
So I guess you consider hell to be a very good thing Y____? N____?

" that the veil between man and God was torn open, Allowing for every person to now be in direct connection with God (this is why we can all hear his voice today instead of relying on priests and prophets like in The Old Testament). " Oh really? Well you"d be the first to say so. Which verses exactly please that were NOT in the OT? Because if not in the OT, Then why have the OT, And the jews would not exist, And god"s chosen people namely the jews, Thus would not exist. Do you have any idea as to what you are talking about or are you just winging it?

"It's with Jesus' ultimate sacrifice"" Sorry, Someone"s suffering by being nailed to a cross and having a crown of thorns is NOT an ultimate sacrifice. There are millions of children per year that according to your sad pathetic oafing religion that your god KNOWINGLY creates that suffer in horrible anguish far far far worse than YOUR pathetic christ ever did. Your christ was cookie crumbs in comparison.
Here"s a question for you" what can children possibly learn from suffering? If you"ve answered "nothing" you"ve answered correctly. Suffering, Especially religiously speaking, Is something that is completely unnecessary and needless and is truly pointless and solves nothing.

"that we have the Holy Spirit who guides us and teaches us how to be followers of Christ.
What idiot would want to? DDO will not let me post the verses" There are verses from your christ where he wants to wage war within the family structure and put family member against family member, He tells you to get rid of ALL of your possessions, No exceptions, None, That drinking from a serpent is perfectly OK and no harm will come unto you. Etc etc etc. These are remarks of someone who is completely insane.

"1 John 3:2, 4-6 discusses how we can attempt to live sinless as Christ did, " Again, What idiot would want to?
Btw, Notice how the verses are CHANGED from what is stated from character to character in each translation? Yes! This happens all---the---time especially with its two leads" god and christ. So which version is correct? Do you really think that this god of yours would approve text for any reason because of this sham? Btw, There is no original bible to go on. So nobody is interpreting correctly. Even if there was an original, Who"s going to interpret it so that EVERYBODY from across the world understands the same---exact---message, Which is a true impossibility simply by language barriers and their differences? Really? There"s no possible way, None, That if YOUR god is real, And remotely truthful, Would ---ever--- use text.

"Followers of Christ understand that we will never be capable of living sinless. " That"s truly an idiotic ideal. If you don"t believe in this christ fairy dust tale or this god in which both have never been proven to have ever existed, Then you live sinless lives. Simple.

Tes, "We are human, " continuing "Therefore we will ultimately mess up and sin. " WRONG. "It's through the understanding, " what understanding? That you MUST be religious and believe in something that"s never been proven? "That when Jesus died on the cross he wiped away every sin we will have ever had. " Oh god how many times does this have to be repeated. = WRONG. Let me ask you 2 questions" 1. Why do you assume that this is true when you cannot in any possible way test or demonstrate and then assert and then declare what you believe to be true? Because no one else has in the entire history of the human race. Not one person. 2. Why are you so brainwashed that you cannot live a normal life?

"It's through repentance that our sins are wiped clean and God sees us as sinless. That is the very concept of sin in Christianity. " I"m not and neither are billions of others going to repent unto a genocidal homicidal maniac who hates children and imposes laws that cannot possibly be followed. I"m happy. I don"t wallow in mud with sin on my back quivering and shaking over debts that I owe to a silly little storybook. Got it?
----------
Moving on to RD2. I didn't have much space. . .
"I respect your opinion where you say that "It"s an abomination as far as translations go. " While I don"t agree with your opinion, " Well um nope its not an opinion. Continuing "You say that, Essentially, Text is"" Nope. Please do try harder. Why is it that so-called christians can"t READ? " and then continued later with "the worst form of communication correspondence, Declaration, Advertisement, Broadcast, Propaganda, Publication etc etc etc pe-ri-od""
Its not an opinion. ALL translations of YOUR bible, All of them, No exceptions, None are truly horrific miserable. Let"s prove it right now"
*In the Bishop"s bible, The one before the KJV, The word "Tyrant" was used I don"t know how many times (its at least 400 from what completed records show) and then in the KJV that was replaced by "King". WHAT? Tyrant and KIng are two different and totally apples and oranges with each having totally different meanings.
* In Isaiah 45:7 KJV "I form the light, And create darkness: I make peace, And create evil: I the Lord do all these things. " In the NIV version its "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, The Lord, Do all these things. " In the NLT its "I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, The Lord, Am the one who does these things. In the ESV "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity;I am the Lord, Who does all these things. " The words "evil" and "disaster" and "bad" and "calamity" are completely 4 completely different words that have 0% of nothing to do with each other and completely change the meaning of the verses. With each different verse, The messages are completely different. The synonyms of each word don"t even match.
*Proverbs 15:24 KJV "The way of life is above to the wise, That he may depart from hell beneath. " NIV "The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead. " NLT "The path of life leads upward for the wise; they leave the grave behind. " What oh what do those translations and thus their meanings have anything to do with anything?

I'm out of space - again!
EStone523

Con

I had a whole argument prepared, However for some reason it did not save and all of my work was lost after I hit 'submit. '
So, I'll just put what I posted at the end of my argument for time's sake.

I will not debate you further until you do the following:
1. Show your proof since you have the burden of proof (you are pro side, And you initiated the debate).
2. Answer the questions I addressed to you that you keep ignoring.
3. Stick to your original debate topic and stop trying to steer the debate in multiple directions. The debate is over whether or not sin exists so let's keep it at that topic.
4. Continue the debate in an underogatory manner and keep good sportsmanship.

Good Day.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

"I had a whole argument prepared, However for some reason it did not save and all of my work was lost after I hit 'submit. "
That happens, Unfortunately. Solution! Use google docs. This way your work, Every single letter is saved every single time you type anything into it. You can save files, Word articles, Spreadsheets, Resumes, Letters, Brochures etc etc etc.

OK onto busy-ness
I am a very brutally honest, Blunt, Straight up person who tells you like it is. That is if you are intelligent and educated AND you do not invent excuses. Guess what? You are intelligent, Educated and you haven"t invented excuses in which I really hate as its so easy to spot and they play pretend time with someone that clearly knows better with their excuses.
However, You are amazingly naive. I mean what gives you good reasoning for what you believe and thus have a firm standing on the ground of tinsel that you stand on? What evidence do you have? Who/ how many agree with you? You"d be hard pressed to find many. To give you an idea, Well I ran out of space in RD2 to say anything about it, But precious few, If anybody is going to agree with"
"I"m not here to debate the importance of text-based documents, Though. I"m here to debate how sin exists and how God exists within the Christian faith. "
Then your argument, Well what argument? Completely falls apart. After all, The bibles, Its text, Is the only thing you have to prove your god"s existence. Also faith is the most preached thing in your bible. Here"s a few true statements to help you out"
"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every of the other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, The most important truth your"re saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence? " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence. " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith can be very very dangerous, And deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong. " Richard Dawkins

"Faith is the great cop-out, The great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is the belief in spite of, Even perhaps because of, The lack of evidence. " Richard Dawkins
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=XcB_g_ElIdQ&t=339s - Another Appeal To Faith - The Atheist Experience
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=72l6IeEFhPE&t=2996s - Atheist Experience 22. 42 with Matt Dillahunty & Jen Peeples & Truth Wanted Encore Premiere @ 6pm (2 first great calls - science/ creator and repeating caller on faith
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=oSXLMxMYve8 - "We all have faith. . . " | Jeff - Philadelphia, PA | Atheist Experience 22. 42
"In order to make a case for something that is the the result of intelligent design, You would need to demonstrate a designer that has intent towards a goal and provide evidence for that. Can you do that? " Matt Dillahunty
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=HMDZVXos9hM - Faith Healing Testimony & Discussion of Efficacy of Prayer | Jon - CA | Atheist Experience 22. 45 (someone is ---absolutely--- convinced god is at work

Moving on though I really shouldn"t because you lost on those terms alone.
"But you"ve given no real examples except for a proposition you stole from Shabir Ally, " Oh and duh, Darling, I didn't steal from him because I eventually gave credit where credit is due. That does not make it stealing. Perhaps you should go to college and take 2 courses on copyright law before you make silly accusations that you know nothing about.

Btw, We"re done. I truly hate it when maggoty supposed christians who clearly know NOTHING ABOUT THEIR SUBJECT(S), NAMELY RELIGION and then come they up with the excuse that their opponents cannot present valid evidence when in fact they do and in turn it totally annihilates them as what has been done with you in previous RD's here on this debate. This is true especially when untruthful supposed christians present evidence that NOBODY of merit pays attention to especially of you. To prove it, Cough up your idiocies to any 2 churches that are within a 5 mile range of you and see if they agree with you. It won't happen. That's why there's at least 33, 830 denominations of christianity on this planet
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=wXHJEfRC3ns - 101 Facts about christianity #69
and why there's no consensus of your religion/ namely christianity, And why you cannot submit your findings to any scientific community from around the world and get a positive result unless its scientific and not religiously motivated because they won't even look at it if it is, So they in turn can present it to another scientific community and another and another etc. Wow.
See, I unlike you can back up ---everything--- I state with evidence that you cannot refute, Otherwise I don't state it.

Damn right I take back that you are intelligent and educated. NEWSFLASH: You're not! And it sticks right to the gut that you are amazingly naive. Wanna get rid of that? Don't be arrogant. Come up with ---valid--- evidence that is NOT faith based oriented and DO NOT invent excuses.
EStone523

Con

EStone523 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@recedingDebates - Due to the fact that I've been doing this for 2 1/2 your age and then some, Your sitting bull meow mix doesn't come across as being genuine. Its only a saltine on plywood.
Posted by recedingDebates 3 years ago
recedingDebates
@backwardseden, I'm not sure if you take this or yourself seriously, But you come across as quite arrogant and witless, Try making a clear, Coherent point and you might sway people to your side.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@recedingDebates - Please don't tell me what to do, K? I've been doing this for 43 + years and have talked with roughly 22, 000 on this subject.
I have an extreme distaste for those who do not have an education or intelligence on the subject(s) that they profess to have knowledge upon and they really don't, And yet they pretend that they do as CLEARLY AS EStone523 does. And because they don't they invent excuses for that specific subject and or flat out lie. When this happens, Which happens quite often, They will soon have no genuine friends or loved ones if it keeps up (hey they may not now) and their teachers will ALWAYS mark that paper with an F. And it is my right to degrade, Dehumanize and belittle them or walk away in which I sometimes do with my brand of sarcastic, Dumb, Idiotic, Original, Gone from this universe, Blah blah black sheep have you any fool insults. This is something that is taught in college.
Posted by EStone523 3 years ago
EStone523
@recedingDebates Thank you for the feedback. This was one of the first debates I took part of, So I'll be sure to keep your feedback in mind as I progress through more debates.
Posted by recedingDebates 3 years ago
recedingDebates
Both arguments seem ridiculous and the way you present them is hardly convincing. @backwardseden, Try not to talk down to your opponent as this tends to turn the listener against you. @EStone523, Although you definitely present a more professional debate, Your points are somewhat confusing and the endless quotes make it hard to follow your line of argument, A more concise presentation would have won this for you in my opinion.
Posted by politicsfortherun 3 years ago
politicsfortherun
What you don"t understand, Is there"s this thing called religion. And, Most people are a thing called religious. And that means, You believe in a God. So to start your argument by saying there is no God, You"ve already set a bad tone in the debate.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@kwagga_la - Its so much fun to make fun of someone like you who pretends he actually knows something about the subject(s) that he thinks he pretends that he does, But really doesn't. Shhhhhh it'll be our little secret covered bootsause with a tidbit of toenail added in the cocktail so you can yodel some bambi stripes on the side for an extra punch.
"Why don't you start by what the Messiah was supposed to do? " Wewll golly hootenest whiskers, Had yah paid any attention to a few of the vidies oh great batbrain He-Man who duels She-Ra with his flyin' pecker so he can gain some moo juice from an eggstra special sword fight because you are the pewer, The answers are there oh great turkey gobble who has no genuine friends or loved ones because never brings any evidence to the table and is thus never believed by anyone.
"All the examples can be applied to Buddha, Muhammed etc. " WRONG. Bye.
Posted by kwagga_la 3 years ago
kwagga_la
@blacky_eden Interesting statement: "Now your idiotic comment? You might want to have a nice little look at it because it was most certainly more than well answered AND ITs AT LEAST 5X FOLDS for god's sake! "

for god's sake! . . For god's sake! . . For god's sake! And one last time. . For god's sake! Should it not be something like "for non-existence' sake"?

Who's the idiot now?
Posted by kwagga_la 3 years ago
kwagga_la
@backwardseden Why don't you start by what the Messiah was supposed to do? All the examples can be applied to Buddha, Muhammed etc. And in spite of what someone's opinion is about being sane or rationality in understanding them, They did exist and where hailed as prophets or anointed (Messiah). Reading the Bible, It is clear that sin existed before the messiah showed up 2000+ years ago. How you are able to make the connection between the existence of a messiah and sin is like a tornado going through a small town - just completely crazy. But then again, To understand the Bible, You will have to read it instead of relying on a YouTube education.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@EStone523 - When you state "But you"ve given no real examples except for a proposition you stole. . . " Guess what my dear? I stop reading especially when you've presented no evidence whatsoever, None, To support your case whatsoever. And guess what? After your absolute shellacking in being presented with nothing but evidence in ALL ROUNDS, You lose ALL PRIVILEGES for even dreaming of asking a question, Much less me answering it from you when you have not even taken a look at ANY EVIDENCE that has been presented unto you to prove you 100% wrong.
Now your idiotic comment? You might want to have a nice little look at it because it was most certainly more than well answered AND ITs AT LEAST 5X FOLDS for god's sake! But like I said, You are a supposed christian and you can't READ! There's probably a good 50 or so. Care to guess of at least 3 of them? Nah, Something that is easy cannot possibly pop into your brain.
Now I did not say those things to be vicious or hurtful. I said them, Because like I said, I'm brutally honest and I will tell you like it is.
Please tc and have fun
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenEStone523Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro called Con "brainwashed". That's poor conduct.

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