The Instigator
idisagreewithyou
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
LOL98700z
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Socialism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 424 times Debate No: 119726
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

idisagreewithyou

Pro

you can start.
LOL98700z

Con

Before I poses any kind of arguments, I would like for you to define this problem. What is the pro side and con side of socialism? Do you mean, Will it never work, Or Will it ever work? However, Anyway, Let me try to do it.

C1: Socialism is a political ideology that is very difficult to be made into reality:
Socialism is an ideology first created by Karl Marx and his collaborator: Fredirich Engels. In their famous book: The Communism Manifesto, They first used the word "Scientific Socialism". Nowadays, The word had underwent vast change from the original. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, The word means:
"a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between"capitalism"and"communism"and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"
Thus, Socialism is a political ideology that had been reformed into one between the Capitalism ideology and communism, Or in other words: The Market Communism. However, Socialism, On theory, Is like an amazing society, But in real life, This is extremely difficult to achieve. In US, A typical capitalism country, Every attempt at universal health care had been denied due to the Republican party who are funded by industrial cooperation that will be damaged by the universal health care. Thus, It is not because of the social ideology, But because of the industrial giant who are blocking these movements.

C2: Southern Movement against the Northern Yankees:
The main driving force between the US political conflict right now, Can be classifed into 3 words: North VS South. After being defeated in the Civil War, The south had hated the northern to today. For example, While the majority of the voter in the northern states such as New York, Philadelphia, And many others, Are typical Democrat bases, The deep south such as Texas, California and others most often vote for Republican. In a 2016 Study conducted by Pew Research Center, Clinton was backed by mostly college degree and above, By a 9 point margin(52% - 43%), While trump was supported by non-college degree citizen by 52% - 44%. The largest margin so far in the US election since 1980. Proving to us that while the educated personnel who were aware of the reality of socialism, The deep south, Where most residents are white and voted for trump had next to zero knowledge about the truth of socialism and are extremely conservative. The main reason for that being the Red Scare/McCarthyism during the 50s and 60s.

C3: Socialism is hard to continue due to unequal distribution of goods:
One of the biggest reason of communism and socialism not working is due to the fact that most people are selfish. Wishing to obtaining item of their own, Many disregards others" welfare. Perhaps the most true in the current United State, Despite repeated attempt at Universal Health Care, It was never passed due to the International cooperation"s blocking, But also the lack of support from high class professionals, Due to the fact that many refuses to pay for others welfare by giving more taxes. Perhaps the best example would be the recent anti-tax movement. People are in fact, Selfish enough to wish for the government to disassemble and no longer function. Another instance of uneducated people making unreasonable choices.
Debate Round No. 1
idisagreewithyou

Pro

I wish I was more explicit with my argument, My argument is that a socialist society would be ideal and not socialism is going to happen. I agree with everything you've said.
LOL98700z

Con

(Thank you for replying so soon, I thank you for clarifying this well enough. )

The Pro side argues that the Socialism is going to be an ideal society. However, I have simply 1 question, Why not go deeper? Despite Karl Marx had indeed named his communism the scientific socialism, I would argue for a much more radical society: The communist society.

Many would argue that Communist society is too evil, However, The Soviet Union version is never really the communism Karl Marx had at heart. Following is a quote from wikipedia page of Communist Society:

In Marxist thought, Communist society or the communist system is the type of society and economic system postulated to emerge from technological advances in the productive forces, Representing the ultimate goal of the political ideology of Communism. A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access[1][2] to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless, [3] implying the end of the exploitation of labour.

However, Socialism continues to allow unequal distribution of wealth, And goods. Also allowing personal/private owning of properties. In truth, Admitted by Chairman Mao himself during the latter years of his life: Socialism is truly a type of government that is a capitalist communism. If we are going to debate on ideological ground, Why not go further into the realm of universal happiness?

Obviously, Both socialism and communism could never work. Here I quote a famous line from Winston Churchill:
Many forms of Government have been tried, And will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. ""

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947
Debate Round No. 2
idisagreewithyou

Pro

I agree with your position on communism but I do believe a communist society would work, Nations like Burkina Faso was prospering when Thomas Sankara was in charge yet it was short lived due to his assassination, His society wasn't full blown communism but it was heading in that direction, Since he was in charge his nation had educational programs, Functioning trade, Worker rights etc. Nations like these are never taken into consideration when discussing communism.
LOL98700z

Con

I must offer a very different opinion: Mr. Thomas Sankara is indeed a very special person, Upholding the African People, And just like Bobby Kennedy, Was assassinated in his primes. Thus, I want to talk about why Communism or even simply, Socialism would not work in that era and during this era.

One of the most tragic family in the United State, Yet the most powerful, Is the Kennedy Clan. The three brothers each meeting their tragic end. The eldest: Joseph P Kennedy Jr. Walks into his death on a dangerous bombing run over the German V2 Rocket site during WW2. The middle: Jack Kennedy, Known as JFK to most of the american, Was a tragic president who had supported civil right movement, And met his tragic end by a bullet shot from a gun held in a Psychopath's hand. The final brother: Bobby Kennedy, Was perhaps the saddest of all. Living under the shadow of his older brothers for nearly all his life, After Jack died, He was forced to have his own goal in the first time of his life. After quitting from Washington due to the bloody political duel with the president Lyndon B Johnson, He was elected as the Senator Of New York, And after that, Went on a crusade to support human right movement. How ironic and tragic, When Bobby was shot dead, According to a journalist: " It is as if they(The kennedy aide) were all expecting this to happen. "

The reason, Is simple, CIA and FBI will never tolerate any kind of socialism or even a little left wing movement due to Mr. Hoover. It is continued to today. A communist country will never be able to form, Because, Of the assassination. According to Fidel Castro himself, There had been no less than 30 attempts made on his life. But he is lucky, And avoided them all.
Debate Round No. 3
idisagreewithyou

Pro

I agree of everything you've stated but I see this as more of a critique of our current political climate were the government has to crush certain political movements to stay afloat.
LOL98700z

Con

I forfeit this round to give my opponent a final chance. (Also to read a book of course)
Debate Round No. 4
idisagreewithyou

Pro

I read back and found I have no disagreement, Therefore I forfeit due to not having an argument.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by idisagreewithyou 3 years ago
idisagreewithyou
Athias, I thought I deleted the first one, I'm new here if you haven't already guessed.
Posted by Athias 3 years ago
Athias
If you wanted to debate multiple members about this topic, Why not created a thread in the forums? Why seek two challengers?
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