The Instigator
Pro (for)
Anonymous
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Sonofcharl
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

THBT There can be miracles when we believe

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/16/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 503 times Debate No: 120349
Debate Rounds (3)
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Pro

My focus is primarily on one of the many arguments philosophers have debated over for years. Does David Hume"s idea of "induction" support his argument against his appeal to the laws of nature in his account of a miracle? Presently, The answer to that question varies. Some say it does, Some say it does not. And as we will find out later, The answer can be either, Depending on individual perspective. Personally, I believe Hume"s discussion on miracles can be said to be at times inconsistent with his earlier discussion of induction and causality, But overall, In a broader sense, His theories of induction can be related to his account on miracles.
Sonofcharl

Con

A very ambiguous proposition from the outset.
Just as ambiguous as David Hume's philosophy.
Of course, Theoretical philosophy is what it is and so all credit to Hume for admitting his own uncertainty.

What is a miracle anyway?
Even the definition of the word is not clear cut.

Is Pro differentiating between magic and miracle?
Not that the definition of magic is by any means clear cut.

Perhaps we should differentiate between magic, Miracle and impossibility?

And belief is also a hard one to pin down if you think about it.
I would suggest that we tend to overuse or even misuse the word belief and wrongly use it to imply certainty in the absence of evidence.
Debate Round No. 1

Pro

The Bible is full of miracles. Jesus healed the sick and the blind and even raised Lazarus from the dead. The walls of Jericho fell with just a shout and a trumpet blast. When disciples praised God in prison, Their chains fell off and the doors swung open. Christians wonder if that kind of thing still happens today or if God only moved so dramatically in the past. Here are some examples of miracles that show God is as active today as He was at creation.

Doctors tried everything to treat 4-year-old Luke Burgie"s gastrointestinal problems, But the boy was wasting away. After nuns kept a nine-day vigil, Praying a novena, Luke was completely healed. Luke"s recovery was even declared a miracle by the Vatican in 2016.

Belief in miracles, Such as the ones mentioned above, Is widespread. According to recent surveys 72% of people in the USA and 59% of people in the UK believe that miracles take place. Why do so many people believe in miracles in the present age of advanced science and technology? Let us briefly consider three possible answers to this question.

The first possible answer is simply that miracles actually do take place all the time. If they take place all the time it is not a surprise that many people witness them and believe in them. However, Philosophers widely agree that miracles always involve a violation of the laws of nature. Such acts as healing a fatal injury instantly or turning water into wine are considered miracles primarily because they violate the laws of nature"they cannot be performed without defying the laws of physics, Chemistry, Biology and so on. Yet nature is a uniform and stable system. If the laws of nature were regularly violated, We would not be able to speak, Walk, Or even breathe. Hence, Even if miracles can occur in principle, They simply cannot occur regularly.

The second possible answer is that belief in miracles is a projection of wishful thinking. According to this answer, Many people believe in miracles because they want to think that they take place. There is some truth in this answer. One can argue that belief in miraculous healing is particularly common because people want to remain hopeful even when they suffer a serious illness or injury. However, It is not clear why so many people would believe something merely because they want it to be the case. For example, Many people want to become millionaires but few believe that they are millionaires, Unless they really are.
Sonofcharl

Con

1) Myths and legends and fantasy tales are usually liberally sprinkled with magic and the supernatural. So why should the bible be any different.
And most myths and legends and fantasy tales have gods also.
And Pro's Christian premise is unsubstantiated.

2) Most modern miracles have a logical explanation. But miracles tend to be more profitable than logic.
As for Luke Burgie: There's nothing particularly miraculous about recovering from a stomach upset and nothing particularly odd about a 4 year old with a bad stomach. There are also also many causes of such conditions, Some more sinister than others.

3) Things happen as things do and if people want to call something a miracle then they're free to do so.
And a fatal injury is either a fatal injury or it is not.
And turning water into wine is the stuff of legends and so is trickery and deceit.
And trickery and deceit are also the stuff of day to day existence.
And as I've already implied there's money to be made out of miracles.
And people will use all manner of trickery and deceit to obtain money.
And principles rarely come into it.

4) I'm not sure about wishful thinking, But there's a lot to be said for positive thinking.
And people love to imagine all sorts of fanciful things, As a distraction from the hum drum of their daily existence.
But imagination is what it is and fanciful things are what they are.
And daily existence is often hum drum.
And if I woke up tomorrow and found a million pounds in my bank account. I would instantly assume that it was due to a banking error rather than a miracle.

And given that the World population is 7. 7 billion and counting, The odds of something seemingly miraculous occurring to one or two people must be quite high. Unfortunately the majority of people are not quite so lucky.

And Pro knows that magic is impossible, Because they are fully aware of the reasons why magic is impossible.
But conditioning is what conditioning does and therefore Pro also thinks that they believe in miracles.
And 72% of U. S. Citizens and 59% of U. K. Citizens are similarly affected.
Such is the human condition.
Debate Round No. 2
Sonofcharl

Con

What a shame that Pro has decided to forfeit.

Their debate was good and opposing it was enjoyable.

Regards.
Debate Round No. 3
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