The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
7 Points

That twilight sucks

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after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 988 times Debate No: 59891
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)




My argument is that twilight has terrible plot no character development.many reputable authors like James Patterson Steven king and others all agree that these books are terrible.especially compared to great books like Harry potter lord of the rings and so on my point being that they are terribly many people like it means nothing it's large problems


Dear Pro. . .

Thank you for the debate. I really like the idea of the debate. I have also read several Steven king books, all of harry potter, the lord of the rings the hobbit. I have only read the first book of twighlight, but I have recently lost a bet and was forced to watch all three movies. i will reference 1 individual directly for support, joseph cambel and one book 'a billion wicked thoughts`. Along with the books you have forward.

Rebuttal #1

Argument from Authority

You say the books suck because other authors say it sucks. That’s fine, but there are other authors who say your preferred authors suck. An argument from your preferred authors does not lend weight to your argument. They are experts at writing, in very specific fields, towards very specific target audiences. This does not mean that they are authorities on other forms of writing. I reject your claim of authority as biased and irrelevant until you show how it is.

Also can you please provide quotes for your claims?

Rebuttal #2

Refuting your claim from actual authority

There are 23 general plots in the literary world, dozens of archetypes and millions of variations on each theme. The plot is star crossed lovers from other sides of the track, a play on romeo and juliet. There is the typical reject from 1 party for the safety of other. The father whose sole job is the safety of a community, and the love interests family being a threat. There is the love triangle for tension, there is conflict from without as a minor threat (victoria) and a major threat (NWO dakota team) from belle’s love interest, as well as internal conflicts (pregnancy and ability to have children) and external, constantly being killed from Edwards blood relatives. Coming from a broken home, to an eternal marriage is a central theme. There is a resolution to conflict, questioning of values and judgments. There is also the future predictor, who acts as a moral guide, the quest for truth, the external others, the environment challenges. These are all parts of parts of stories found in Lord of the rings, the hobbit, Steven king books.

Joseph Campbell, who actually studies stories (including those listed) lays out plot, character development and something called the HERO’s Journey. Google it and you will find it referencing everything from the LOTR to Twighight. The hero's journey is very clear progression from point a to b. The twilight stories follow it very clearly.

He, not your authors is an expert on stories.

Rebuttal #3

Argument from false comparison

I believe if you’re going to compare apples to apples it should be that, not apples to oranges. You making an argument from false comparison. James patterson is geared toward late teens and audlts who like pop cultural idea and plot. Steven king is a horror writer. Harry potter is for tweens and teens, as well as adults. and Lord of the rings is a biblical tome that sole virtue is its use of language, not plot or character development or moral lessons, in fact it is sexist, mysognistic and slightly preachy. They are books targeted towards different readership.

Can you name another book for the target audience that you do approve of?

Rebuttal #4

Augment from preference

A billion wicked thoughts is an extraordinary book on the difference between men and women. In one chapter it goes in to the preferred writing desired by Men vs Women. The entire language base for women reading books vs visual cues for men is different. That is why many men predominantly do not like the book. Preference by one group does not mean better then another group.

Can you define what you mean by one is better than another?

Rebuttal #5

Argument from popularity (and slight hypocrisy)

The only reason you have presented those books and authors is they are popular. Not catcher in the rye, or Gatsby or even the bible. Your argument is that these popular authors and books are better, but this popular book and writer is not.

Can you tell me why it sucks, and PLEASE be specific. . .

Thank you for your time.

Debate Round No. 1


I do not say twilight is bad Becuase other authors say so.i will begin with character development.Bella in the books is nothing more then a damsel in distress almost the whole purpose of her is to be the item of contest for Jacob and Edward.She is of no use to Edward or Jacob any girl could have been in that posistion.which is a great appeal of the story she is never perfectly described only as a pale,clumsy,brunette and bueatiful girl.she has nothing special about her other then the fact that Edward can't read her mind(which is never fully explained) and the whole point is for her she contributes nothing to anyone but being I will talk about Edward he is 109 years old and he's dating Bella now that is a little weird if you think about but let's keep going.there is almost nothing at all about his other 108 years before Bella which apparently not important at all he is a stalker he watches her as she sleeps he is a abusive person he always talks about women in derogatory terms.he in a way forces her to date him by threatening her by saying he will kill himself if she breaks up with him a sign of a abusive boyfriend is when he is angry with you he will lock you in a room cut you off from the outside world by taking items like phones'cars ect' and in the books he has Alice kidnap her and he took part of her engine out of her car just to keep her from seeing Jacob.also that's another sign not allowing contact with other men.he has no other interest other then Bella she is literally the only thing in his life so what did he do for 108 years and if he did something before he just forgot them why.and I will go about the authors I'm not saying there perfect and you are right they are in a different genre so I was wrong and I will continue on other points in next round


Dear Pro. . .

Thank you for the response. I believe stories are important, they define us, who we are and what we think. And in this case, your preference of what is good and sucks (again vampire book called suck chuckles) does not equate.

Rebuttal 2.1

You state in r2 1st statement - you did not say twilight is bad because other authors say so.

My response is read round 1. It’s exactly what you said.

Rebuttal 2.2

Emma, Pride and Prejudice, Hunger Games, my name is Memory, Vampire Academy, Robin hood are damsel in distress, as it the Tempest from Shakespeare. The plot you object to is found in many well acknowledge books that do not suck from old classical to modern books. I do not see how a plot Sucks that is widely acknowledged that it doesn`t.

Rebuttal 2.3

You imply that 108 year old vampire and an 18 year old girl is odd. Let’s examine the fiction of this, you object because of the age? Dracula is a lot older in the book with the same name sake. Are you objecting to Dracula on the same grounds? Again Strider is 300 (I do believe) and his love interests range from 18 and 2000 for the elf (I believe). While odd, it’s a story device. Or do you object to a telepath? Have you seen x-men and wheels, sorry Professor X? Its fiction.

Rebuttal 2.4

Why does Edward like Bella. Actually I thought about this one for a while long before this debate and I assumed it would come up sooner or later. It must really suck to be Prof X or Shiny Edward. Imagine every thought someone thinks all the random junk you would hear. If any girl I dated could hear my thoughts, I would be dead walking through a mall. Likewise I would hate every women alive (an most men) if I had telepathy. If I had telepathy I would abhor people. Every dirty secret, every indiscriminate slight or annoyance, every ‘wow he looks hot’ by a gf would eventually drive me to hate society. I would like, love and do befriend anyone I couldn’t read. I would be fascinated by the person who could do one thing no one else could, surprize me and keep a secret. Bella has something no one else can offer.

Rebuttal 2.5

Again I’ll point to A billion wicked thoughts, not only the preferred language for men vs women when reading, but so is the idea that a girl/woman/damsel has something in her that no other women possess in abundance (virginity, knowledge, Status), and in everything else in spades (like fear, self-conscious, body images). The story is that the love interest is abusive and tamed after the magic kiss or wo-who (sex) puts him in his place. This is part of the female hero story that is found in sade to 50 shades of grey to modern female targeted stories. The idea is that is presented in an authority is that a man or hero is has an aboundence of power, strength or will and the girl has something that can undo it. That is the object of affection that will unmake him and make her into his equal. Which by the way is why its popular to women.

Again I`ll ask you of a book for that target audience that you approve of.

Your original statement was to address very specific claims, that it suck, and listed a number of reasons why, argument of authority (which you agree is I refuted), argument from popularity (which refuted) and the argument of popular authority. However you haven’t taken up my charges for the rest of my arguments, and presented secondary arguments. Rather than refute my points, you bring up other arguments, all of which my former arguments still refute. However I did address your 2nd round arguments. Thank you for the read. I appreciate your response.

Thank you for your patience in my responce.

Debate Round No. 2


Masterfrogger forfeited this round.


Extend my arugment . . .
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by NathanDuclos 7 years ago
Posted by NathanDuclos 7 years ago
Thank you for your quick response. . .
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 7 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Mister_Man 7 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I woud consider it a draw for the pure debating aspect, both Pro and Con brought up valubale points, but Con's presentation and overall appeal was much better.

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