The Instigator
JeanLucky
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
Debataholic
Con (against)
Losing
5 Points

The Christian God doesn't exist.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
JeanLucky
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/31/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,136 times Debate No: 117992
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (28)
Votes (4)

 

JeanLucky

Pro

I am sure that that if there is a God (which I doubt) they are definitely not the Christian one.
Let's begin with describing what God is, The most common adjectives that almost any Christian can agree on would be:
- Omnibenevolent (All Loving)
- Omnipotent (All Powerful)
- Omniscient (All Knowing)
- Omnipresent (Existing Everywhere)

Okay now let's assume, That a Christian dies and goes to heaven - where they meet God. What will they do? Most likely fall to their knees as "they are not worthy" of God.

This goes against God's omnibenevolence, If God is all loving - why do you have to fall to your knees infront of him? I mean God-Fearing is an actual word, And its apparently a good thing?

Look at these bible verses:
Psalm 121:1
Praise the Lord! How blessed is the man who fears the Lord, Who greatly delights in His commandments

"Blessed is the man who fears the Lord"

Proverbs 19:23
The fear of the Lord leads to life, So that one may sleep satisfied, Untouched by evil.

"The fear of the Lord leads to life"

Luke 1:50
And his mercy is upon Generation after Generation towards those who fear him

"towards those who fear him"

In what way is this painting God to be all loving?

All these Bible Verses show that for the past two millenia God has been painted as more of a Dictator than a friend. All powerful, And demanding people fear him; once again, How does this show him being all loving?

Moving on to my next argument is one that is very often disputed by Christians; the fact that suffering exists.

The counter argument to this is that "God gave people free will". Oh is that why people can live perfectly holy lives, Then have their family kidnapped, Imprisoned and gassed to death (refering to the Holocaust) what loving god can refuse to stop such pain and agony to so many people?

I often hear people say "it's all part of God's plan"; 32 million people being killed by gassing is all part of it, I'm sure.

Also, What kind of God would demand weekly attendance from people to love him; a power-crazed one.

Continuing on, The entire existence of Hell as a concept completely nullifies God from being all-loving. So if you sinned; rejected God or commited any crime in the short time you were on Earth.

You would be sent to eternal torture in the fiery pits of hell.

"it's all part of god's plan dude"

People may tell me, "So what? Just let people believe in what they want to believe"

And I would, If the presence of Christianity wasn't a complete detriment to society.

Think back to all the biggest historical events.

The Crusades, For example, Which killed 2 million people; just to try and retrieve a city which was said to have given birth to Jesus.

The Slave Trade, Which was said to be at first supported by the Bible, Killed and practically tortured another thousands of people.

The burning of heretics in Tudor England, Killed another couple thousands.

And I could go on and on if I had the time; but to make this argument short and to the point; Ill leave it for round 2 if I have to.

The presence of Christianity has been completely detrimental to society, And once I realised this; having been bored to extremely Catholic parents, I became an atheist.

The teachings in the Bible are extremely outdated, And Christianity is nothing but a cult that destroys lives and corrupts people. Religion as a whole leads to radicalism and more pain and should not be a thing in the modern world.

Debataholic

Con

You bring up some excellent points, But in doing so, You have referred to biblical scripture and if what is written in the Christian Bible isn't true, Then why did you make a reference to it? Also, The slave trade was, Admittedly, A horrible thing, But maybe, It was part of God's divine plan to bring us together because God is love and you cannot deny the existence of love.
Debate Round No. 1
JeanLucky

Pro

But what exactly makes God love?

I hear it a lot that God is the personification of all things good and holy. But is that really correct? Can an enlightened being, Who demands respect and weekly attendance from their followers; who banishes those who don't follow them to a place of eternal torture and dread?

Explain to me, Why, With all that has happened in history, And all the suffering that believing in the Christian God has brought, Should people still be believing in them.

You say God is love, And I can't deny love. But what is love if you think about it?

If I were a sociopath, Or a depressed person; from my view I could easily say that Love doesnt exist. Love is from a scientific point of view the brains attachment to the things it enjoys. And I honestly don't believe people are enjoying fearing God that much.

I respect your opinion of course, But if you could present a more detailed argument I'd be glad. I'm in no hurry to get this argument over so please take your time.

Thanks
Debataholic

Con

The definition of love that you have given me is actually lust. True love is when you give of yourself to someone else, Asking nothing in return. Did God not create the Universe? Or give us life? He does everything for us, Yet we foolishly mock Him. Not to pry or anything, But have you considered as to why you wanted to debate this in the first place? Obviously, There is a part of yourself that cares about others on such a deep level that you are willing to get them to question their spiritual beliefs because you believe in humanity's potential. That, My friend, Is love.
Debate Round No. 2
JeanLucky

Pro

You present a fair argument.

However, Why do you assume that God exists? Because people thousands of years ago said he did and just carried it down generation by generation? If they do exist, Why is the Christian one the correct one? Judaism and Hinduism came before it, Surely they would know better?

You say God created the universe and everything in it, And you say that they are love. But why? You were most likely told that by your parents, They were told that by their parents, Etc etc. . . Christianity is completely based around blind faith that doesn't benefit the society at all as I stated in round 2, As people through history could use it as an explanation for their actions.

In the medieval times, The Church offered "Indulgences" where if someone sinned they could pay their way out of it.

Perhaps the chance of there being an enlightened deity is possible, But the notion that said deity demands attendance from their followers and has an afterlife system based on whether you believed in them; while they offered you zero proof that they did, Is completely ridiculous.

So I conclude my side of the argument with a video that you could watch if you wish, Or anyone reading this debate could view if they so wished; that reiterates some of the points I made:

https://youtu. Be/ttevamkS6gw? T=4m52s
Debataholic

Con

You make the assumption that I grew up in a heavily religious family. However, That is not entirely the case and, Like you, I questioned the existence of God. Every time my mother would talk about Jesus or make a comment about how my choices, Both immediate and otherwise, Were sins, I would just tell her that I didn't believe any of that Jesus crap. I'm paraphrasing, Of course, But you get the idea. Anyway, Fast forward about ten years later. I had just graduated and that should be cause for celebration. However, This wasn't entirely the case because my godless behavior lead to me getting kicked out of my parents house. Now, You have to understand that I was filled with hatred and that hatred manifested itself into physical violence, Starvation, And many other horrible things. The worst thing about it was what I could only describe as a dark fog that clouded my mind and I felt that I could do nothing about it. Anyway, One day, I meet a nice Christian woman and, Because I'm smart, I pretend to go along with what I perceive as "bullsh*t". She later told me that she was training to be a minister. We bumped into each other at irregular times and, One day, While we were talking, She offered to bring me to Christ. Of course, With my massive ego, I wanted to show her how stupid her beliefs were, So I reluctantly agreed. I sat down on some steps and held her hand. She told me to close my eyes and repeat everything she said. I don't know what she was praying and it, Honestly, Felt like ages while I was doing it, But during that time, I started shaking with fear. After a while, The fear subsided, And I felt as if I was lighter than a feather and, For the first time in a long time, Happy. Of course, I don't have any evidence that any of this happened, Other than God turning my life around and giving me the occasional moment in which I see someone with a personality similar to what I previously had, But in a situation far worse than mine. All in all, I'd rather believe in something stupid like "Jesus" than be a homeless drug addict anyday and, To me, That is more real than anything else I have experienced.
Debate Round No. 3
28 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by itdobelikethat 1 month ago
itdobelikethat
the word fear doesn't actually mean to be afraid of, It just means a lower rank or position
Posted by backwardseden 1 month ago
backwardseden
@Johnathan_Wesley - In your remarks to Veronica_the_Baptist. . . "Hell exists because it is a place where people will reside apart from God, " Nice invented excuse in which shows that you have a 0% of no idea as to what you are squawking about. None. Hell is a NT ideal. So ALL of those who existed before the NT and those who have not known of YOUR God no matter the time or age according to you such as those who live in the Brazilian rain forest are to go to hell. Great job in ONLY YOU damning the entire human race. Oh and btw, Sorry billions of others in which do not believe in YOUR God because you cannot even prove that your God even exists are just fine from YOUR hell. Oh even better is that hell is a Christ ideal. Not a God ideal. So you really don't know what you are squawking about. The ONLY way to get to YOUR heaven is through the belief in YOUR Christ. It doesn't matter if you believe in YOUR god or not. It doesn't matter if you've chopped upped 6 five year old girls, Tortured them, Abused them and let them to bleed on the floor and then later in life you've found found Christ SHEBANG! Its off to heaven you go. What a great ideal you believe in. John 14:6, John 3: 14-16. Now if you do not believe in Christ, POOF for doing absolutely nothing wrong, Bye, Off to hell you go. You really need to read YOUR bible.
"Also, Hell isn't a place that God flings us into simply because He doesn't like us. It's because He is sovereign and we have chosen anything but His kingdom --" Goodie for me. All the more reason for me to go to hell. Hmmmm if I am Hitler and I accept YOUR ideal of the "kingdom of God" I will be accepted in heaven? Great way in explaining yourself. But I still have to believe in Christ moron.
Posted by backwardseden 1 month ago
backwardseden
@Debataholic - When you claim yourself to not be well versed in the intricacies of the bible, Then you will be perceived as an "idiot". Regardless that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter for 3 reasons. 1. Your God in which you cannot even prove even exists would never use text as a form of communication, Namely the bible, As text is the worst form of communication possible. 2. The bible is not evidence of any kind. 3. The bible is nothing more than blabbing a superior ego god complex of terror.
Now even in your bible, Your God does not grant you free will of any kind. You show anyone where the bible states something like "I the Lord they God grants man free will" The fact of the matter is there's nothing of the kind. Not even close.
Some videos from youtube will help you with this (links don't work anymore so simply copy and paste the text into the youtube search engine)
* An All Knowing God versus Free Will: The Greatest Religious Contradiction
* How God Favors Evil
* Does god Allow Free Will
Now what's to understand in God except that this God doesn't exist until proven? After all there's no tests to prove this God of YOURS. YOU cannot describe what this God is. There's also no possible way that you can demonstrate what this God of YOURS is either. All this God is, Is gullibility.
Posted by Debataholic 1 month ago
Debataholic
I'm going to start off by admitting that I'm not as versed as everybody else in the intricacies of the Bible. However, It's incredibly hurtful when people assume I'm some kind of an idiot just because they can't believe in the same things that I believe. At the end of the day, The only thing that has been pointed out is the ignorance that I have toward a book that I, Personally, Don't read. God gave us free will and I'm using my free will to understand that the "God" in the Bible is merely a caricature of the real thing. The debate was about the existence of a Christian god, But what does that mean, Exactly? To me, The Christian god is the same as the Muslim god, All the Greek and Roman gods, Etc. What it boils down to is that there is ONE god, So calling my god a "Christian" god is silly. You need to understand that God is incomprehensible to the human mind and all the different sciences and religions of the world are Man's attempt to understand God. Anyway, Thank you for this debate because it has given me the opportunity to tell you this.
Posted by backwardseden 1 month ago
backwardseden
@Johnathan_Wesley - No it is quite clear that you do not understand anything at all about your God. Your God issued a death warrant if you worked on the Sabbath. EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36. Absolutely to not work on the Sabbath was a heavenly law idiot. It is/was one of the 10 commandments. Duh. You might want to check that one. Guess what? Since you blew it so bad, I didn't even bother reading the rest of your kindergarten sheep herding goats milk. Oh and oh yeah it has nothing to do with the times. God's laws are God's laws. Who are you or anyone to try to pervert them into anything else, Much less priests? Its simple as stated in the post, God would NEVER work on the Sabbath, Not for any reason thus proving Christ to be a liar in which case all of Christianity is false, Or the verses to be misprints in a book that is supposed to be perfect. Now here's a real clincher: you cannot even prove that your God even exists.
Posted by mosc 1 month ago
mosc
Johnathan_Wesley, How does the Torah define work?
Posted by Johnathan_Wesley 1 month ago
Johnathan_Wesley
@backwardseden

From your post it is quite clear that you're poorly educated on the practices and customs of the time. Working on the Sabbath was a priestly law, Not a heavenly law, God told the people to keep the Sabbath Holy -- that was their commandment. Jesus followed this up by asking the priests a multiple of times about what does it actually mean to keep the Sabbath Holy, Holy being a word meaning, "Set apart" or basically a "Day devoted to God" (EX 20:10). So, Uh, Yeah, God would be working on the Sabbath because it is a day dedicated to Himself.

Secondly, You make a massive logical leap in assumptions that the verses are a misprint. I would love to hear how you know such a wonderful fact that has escaped scholars all this time, As well as the OT being completely false when archaeologists and historians actually agree that the OT contains a plethora of verified history. If we follow your logical assumptions, One thing false therefore makes all things false, The very fact that Hebrews lived in Egypt would negate your entire claim.

Lastly, There is no evidence that suggests Jesus didn't exist. In fact, The method by which we historians record historical people and events verifies that Jesus most likely did live. If you have knowledge that scholars are missing, Perhaps you should write a paper and submit it for review and revolutionize history.
Posted by Johnathan_Wesley 1 month ago
Johnathan_Wesley
@Veronica_the_Baptist

I would like to try to answer your question. Hell exists because it is a place where people will reside apart from God, Thus going to hell is because a person has rejected God, Not because He does not love him. A simple analogy would be marriage -- would you want to stay in a marriage where your significant other is constantly checking out on you? Of course you wouldn't, You are in that marriage and devoted to your SO, So they should be to you as well.

Yet, Hell isn't the place of torment we envision. Somewhere, Our ideal of hell got mixed with other cultures. C. S. Lewis, In his book Pilgrim's Regress, Describes hell as a place, Not of torture, But of protection for those both within and without. Other such writers have described Hell as a place where the soul longs and cries for what it can no longer have, Which is God.

Also, Hell isn't a place that God flings us into simply because He doesn't like us. It's because He is sovereign and we have chosen anything but His kingdom -- so should a King allow malcontents in his nation to stir up strife and struggle? Would you, Again, Want a significant other who does not choose you over alcohol, Frivolous sultry relationships with others, Rejects you before your friends, Etc. ?
Posted by canis 1 month ago
canis
Yes. Every god you can imagine does exist.
Posted by jakabus 1 month ago
jakabus
Some where in the book of romans it states that God is love. Somewhere in the four gospels (The four books of the bible predominantly known for Jesus teachings) There was a part where Jesus was talking about the two kinds of people (You know, Liked & unliked) There are those kinds of people whom have already made God's decision for others on earth. Whom have sentence others to hell and deceiving concerned individuals to perform embarrassing acts so they may enter heaven or else. . . These kinds of people will have a lot to answer for when their time is up on earth. I don't really want to use the pope as an example but you get my point. Money sucking, Occult like manipulating liars are not alone on the naughty list. There are also key individuals responsible for nation wide slavery, Whom live luxuriously wealthy lives profiting from and perpetuating 3rd world like life styles declaring warfare through manipulative means. Their are also ofcorse murders, Paedophiles and other obvious acts, The majority of us just could not do.

Then there are people who are willing to feed the hungry, Treat the sick, Provide company for who are lonely and so on. . . Simply treating others how you would like to be treated is the trick! So God, Which is Love is in fact not some huge being surfing the clouds or holding the universe in the span of his hand. Yet, It goes much deeper then this. If God, Which is Love created the universe and all life in it and love is some kind of emotion. . . . Can you see the conundrum? It is sort of like what came first the chicken or the egg? Scenario.

All there ever was with the dawn of mankind (Adam and Eve if you will) was mankind and the love we shared with one another. (I am sure this is only a small piece as to what God actually is. . . But its what I understand thus far) The original love, Which is between a child and his/her parents. Why not the love between man & woman to create a child? Do they not have to be children first? The love required to st
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Vote Placed by AIRhino 1 month ago
AIRhino
JeanLuckyDebataholicTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Good debate.
Vote Placed by Kikomori 1 month ago
Kikomori
JeanLuckyDebataholicTied
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dsjpk5
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backwardseden
JeanLuckyDebataholicTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con "You have referred to biblical scripture and if what is written in the Christian Bible isn't true, Then why did you make a reference to it?" Because that's what the entire Christian religion hinges on in order for there to be original belief. Con was also basically telling stories and thus blowing the 3rd RD thus not proving god rather than proving god and debating.