The Instigator
DrSpy
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
TheAspiringPhilosopher
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The CoVid-19 virus is manmade, And exemplifies the unseen dangers of virus research.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2020 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,559 times Debate No: 124291
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

DrSpy

Pro

Lets be a bit provocative here :).

For the sake of this argument, I believe that the coronavirus is a result of human virus genetic engineering. It was accidentally transmitted out, And demonstrates how dangerous virus research is.

I am not saying we should not be doing research. I am saying that the actual CoVid-19 virus in its current form, Was assembled by man, And not from animals.

Let be curious and have fun.
TheAspiringPhilosopher

Con

I am not saying we should not be doing research. I am saying that the actual CoVid-19 virus in its current form, Was assembled by man, And not from animals. "

As you have made an assertion, ". . . Was assembled by man, And not from Animals. " you have you adopted the burden of proof. Therefore, You must prove yourself.

While I haven't myself inherently adopted the burden of proof, I will adopt one for the purposes of this debate.
The CoVid-19 virus is an adaptation and/or strain of the zoonotic disease, The Coranavirus and it's origins were of animals.

Here is the source of the information I will provide feel free to investigate it yourself:
https://jvi. Asm. Org. . .

"Bats are known to be reservoir hosts for several human viruses, Including rabies, Marburg, Nipah, Hendra, And the severe acute respiratory syndrome corona virus (SARS-CoV)"

In order to cite this information, They provide a picture of verification of replication of a strain of the corona virus. This is figure 5.

Figure 2 shows how we can see the same strain of Corona virus in different species of bats. This along with the phyology from Figure 1 show how the virus moving from bat to bat.

This is from the CDC (https://www. Cdc. Gov. . . )
"All three of these viruses have their origins in bats. The sequences from U. S. Patients are similar to the one that China initially posted, Suggesting a likely single, Recent emergence of this virus from an animal reservoir. "

So far none of the evidence suggests that COVID-19 is anything but a zoonotic disease that had it's origin in bat species. Ockam's razor cuts out any unnecessary or undemonstrative explanations. Your current argument is both unproven and unnecessary (As in Covid-19 could have spread and has spread without your explanation being true). Therefore your argument is invalid and unsound.

As Christopher Hitchens once summarized nicely, "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. "

I thought it was kind of fun looking up some info, Thanks for the challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
DrSpy

Pro

Thank you for accepting the challenge, And I sure have given myself a tough starting position. Unfortunately none of your sources came through because of this silly forums formatting restrictions. I have all the sources, But this system won't let me post them.
Now that you accepted, I have to do some mad panic research. LOL.

For clarity and confirmation, I did say that the CoVID-19 in its current form was assembled by man. I am going to break my argument down into facts, Strong indicators, And circumstantial Lets establish some facts first.

Facts:

      • CoVID-19 was first reported in Wuhan China, Where epidemiologists traced it back to the Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan China.
      • CoVID-19 is a variant of the coronavirus, The same pathogen family that cause the SARS outbreak in 2002, And the MERS outbreak in 2012, And 2018.
      • There is a BSL-4 lab in Wuhan China, At the Wuhan Institute of Virology, About 34km away from the market.
      • A BSL-4 lab is the highest, And strictest lab setting. According to Scientific America magazine, There are only a few dozen of these labs around the world.
      • The aforementioned lab had been working on a SARS vaccine
Strong Indicators
      • The CoVID-19 has been genotyped over 150 times from 19 different countries, In part to continue to understand any changes that may occur in it. When Viruses are genotyped, Signature chunks or sequences are identified. According to a paper on biorxiv journal, The CoVID-19 contains pShuttle-N sequences which point to no natural occurrences. The paper says they found 4 different insertions which are not found in other corona viruses. These 4 inserts have an identity similar to HIV-1 viruses, Which the paper says "is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature. " biorxiv. Org
            • This is very compelling, However in on itself is not proof. That paper has been withdrawn, With no reason given. Conspiracy theories are abound as to why it was withdrawn. No scientific reason has been given for its withdrawal.
      • James Lyons-Weiler, PhD, (author of 57 peer reviewed journals), he claims the pShuttle-N provides irrefutable “open source” proof that the coronavirus now circulating in the wild was engineered in a laboratory. Every lab that has the gene sequence can see this for themselves. It’s right out in the open, Which is why we describe this revelation as “open source. ”.
        • He further states. "Updates and new data still support a potential link to laboratory-housed sequences in Nanjiang and in Wuhan as the most similar relatives given data from the Spike protein in 2019-nCoV. Our results, Summarized below, Are preliminary, But are based on standard phylogenetic techniques". Ipaknowledge. Org
Both of these are very interesting pieces of evidence about the structure of the virus. In short, It appears as if there is a man made signature on the virus


Circumstantial Evidence

      • The first known human case occurs in a market, In a city with one of the worlds few BSL-4 labs.
      • That lab was modifying and interacting with the coronavirus for SARS/MERS vaccines.
      • The phylogenetic map of the virus, Supported by two groups, Show strong connections to man made components.
      • The phylogenetic map of the virus show a significant level of variance that makes traditional coronavirus categorization difficult.
      • BSL-4 labs are not fool proof, And leaks are known. (the SARS virus had escaped a Beijing lab four time, Singapore once, And Taiwan once while being studied. Nationalpost. Com )
      • There has been no established mechanism for this virus to have occurred naturally, And all indications are that it is not possible.

Therefore, Whilst we can speculate that CoVID-19 is naturally occurring, And still study its origins, The data clearly, Scientifically and persuasively suggests otherwise.
TheAspiringPhilosopher

Con

While I find some of your evidence slightly compelling, I find it lacking. As previously stated we can not link sources therefore any facts which directly contradict each other must either be discarded or used simultaneously somehow to be fair to the debate.

As I have stated previously this new strand has been evidenced to have adapted from previous strains. (This is from the CDC as well as other sources I frustratingly can not source)

This fact alone would discredit your argument. We have literal pictures of the Covid-19 adapting slowly in bats.
Debate Round No. 2
DrSpy

Pro

Thanks for the response. This is a pain in the but with the limitation on source links, However I have gone through your Round 1 narrative and fished out the exact sources. So let me address them.

Your first reference is not applicable. It is a study from 2012. The strain in question did not occur until 2019. And while corona virus strands are known to occur in bats (I do not argue this), I argue that the specific strain in question has the markers that suggest human creation. Those markers are not naturally occurring evolutions.

I have looked at your CDC "evidence" and I put forth it is not evidence. I actually sourced it from the CDC site and not just your commits. It states. "All three of these viruses have their origins in bats. " There is no evidence that the actual specific morphology of this particular strain of corona virus occurs in nature.

There is no dispute that corona virus can adapt in nature. The issue here is that the SPECIFIC ADAPTATIONS have a signature that has been stated, With evidence, That it cannot occur in nature. Nor is there a dispute that the virus is part of the corona virus family that can occur in bats, Pigs, Civets, And some mice. The CDC have not referenced a single source to support a statement that "the current virus in question CoVID-19 came from bats:. A blanket statement by the CDC is not inn onitself proof. While some would find it more persuasive than others, It is not even close to proof.

My proof is more scientifc the theirs, As it deals with the actual strain in question. , We cannot loop all coronavirus together. Therefore your statement "So far none of the evidence suggests that COVID-19 is anything but a zoonotic disease that had it's origin in bat species. " I respdcftully submit is incorrect. The evidence strongly suggests a non zoonotic disease.

My first source - go to bing and search pshuttle-N biorxiv coronavirus HIV1. It will beb the first source.
My second source - go to bing and search in quotation marks. "Updates and new data still support a potential link to laboratory-housed sequences". It will be the first source.



TheAspiringPhilosopher

Con

I've looked through the evidence, Truthfully something does seem off here. However as Christopher Hitchens once said, "Extraordinary claims require, Truly extraordinary evidence. "

Extraordinary - very unusual or remarkable

Evidence - the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

Why I posit that this is extraordinary or unusual? Well it's quite simple there would have to be mass cover up for the last 13 months or so. Usually whenever the government attempts to cover things up such as say the Ukrainian phone call with Trump, Or whenever McCarthy claimed he had a list of communists, Someone leaked, Not just once but over and over.

Unfortunately I do not believe you have sufficiently demonstrated your point. The evidence linking the leak is circumstantial. I do not believe opening research facilities is all that unusual. It is very possibly a coincidence. Considering that the new strain is close to an area where old strains pop up. This would make sense for a research facility to be so close to the new infection site in that case. As they would need to immediately study any changes.

In summation I do not find your evidence enough to warrant your claim.

In non debate terms that was pretty fun, And yeah you are probably right, But I just don't think you have enough hard facts yet, But I've opened up to the possibility.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Oromagi 1 year ago
Oromagi
https://www. Debateart. Com/debates/1809/covid-19-s-origins-are-manmade-it-is-not-of-pure-natural-origins
Posted by DrSpy 1 year ago
DrSpy
Thanks mate. It was good fun for sure. I like doing that kind of thing. Certainly causes me to be a little more sceptical. I think that it is a great debate if each side appears to be persuasive enough on its own.
Posted by TheAspiringPhilosopher 1 year ago
TheAspiringPhilosopher
Dude you're argument was solid I had to fall back to an argument of evidential warrant. Good Job!
Posted by DrSpy 1 year ago
DrSpy
Well man, That was a lot tougher than I thought. After reading your first opening I thought I was screwed. This is a fun one for sure.
Posted by DrSpy 1 year ago
DrSpy
Well do some emergency research LOL

This is all for fun anyway.
Posted by Leaning 1 year ago
Leaning
. . .
Hm, I'm tempted to accept, But really, I don't know much 'about The CoVid-19 virus.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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