The Instigator
AmericanDebator1776
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Athias
Con (against)
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The Confederate Flag is a Symbol of Racism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 580 times Debate No: 119829
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
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AmericanDebator1776

Pro

First round is acceptance.
Athias

Con

I accept. The floor is yours.
Debate Round No. 1
AmericanDebator1776

Pro

I would like to clarify that "The Confederate Flag" I am referring to is the modern adaptation of one of the confederate battle flags that has come to symbolize the confederacy so note while reading this as my opponent or audience member that all references to the "Confederate flag" are referencing the modern adapted battle flag.

Respected opponent and valued audience members I would like to begin my debate by diving into the confederacy and factually rooting the Confederacy to it's undeniable fight for the sub-human act of slavery and establish that it's cause was one connected directly to atrocious racism that had become the lifestyle of the south. If we view the Confederate States of America Constitutional for Provisional Government we see

Sec. 7. (1) The importation of African negroes from any foreign country other than the slave-holding States of the United States, Is hereby forbidden; and Congress are required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

(2) The Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of this Confederacy.

(3) A slave in one State escaping to another, Shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom said slave may belong by the executive authority of the State in which such slave shall be found, And in case of any abduction or forcible rescue, Full compensation, Including the value of the slave and all costs and expenses, Shall be made to the party, By the State in which such abduction or rescue shall take place.

Also examining individual states articles of secession it's easy to see that in Georgia's article of secession they claim that for the Republican party " It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. " and refer to slaves as "They emigrated thither with their property of every kind (including slaves). " Of course every states Article of Secession mentions slavery at least a few times in giving the reason for their secession making it clear that their secession and defense of the Southern way of life was indeed related to the fight for slavery.

Through proving that the Confederate States of America was indeed defending it's Southern lifestyle in the name of slavery it become clear that all battles where the Confederate flag was flown was indeed flown upon fields where blood was being shed in defense of a despicable racist attitude of the South. While many interpret the flag differently I see not how they do this for it appears to be out of plain ignorance that this flag can not be referencing racism. The so called "Southern Heritage" it is representing are ancestors whom for betrayed the United States and fought for slavery so I challenge my opponent and ask how can a flag flown over battles and charges of men dying for the racist cause of slavery not be a symbol of racism when flown today.
Athias

Con

Okay, So my opponent has decided to conflate "slavery" with "racism. " I'm reserved in my declaration either way that the Confederate Battle Flag is "symbolic" of racism. When dealing with symbols, We're dealing with subjective perception. So if the Confederate Battle flag is a symbol of racism, Then it begs these questions: (1) to whom was this flag racist? And (2) whose racism did the flag symbolize?

A historian whom I'll cite in the comments section noted he read over 25, 000 letters, And over 100 diaries of soldiers who fought on both sides of the Civil War when researching content for his book. In these letters, As described by said historian, Seldom is slavery mentioned. Instead the confederates made continuous references to self-government and opposing the tyrannical control of "the yankees. " Another historian cites the cause of the confederate secession was in part due to the growing influence and expansion of federal control by the Republican North. He also cites a series of protectionists tariffs since 1824 that hampered the Southern economy.

Is there any credence to these claims? Well, Yes there is. We know that the Morill Tariff was passed in the spring of 1860, Preceding Lincoln's election, The formation of the Confederacy, And the start of the Civil War. If the Confederate flag was in fact a symbol of "racism" why was the confederacy of Southern States formed immediately after the tariff, And not, Let's say the signing of the emancipation proclamation? The Southern States had already seceded, So any measure by Lincoln wouldn't legally have affected the seceded states.
Debate Round No. 2
AmericanDebator1776

Pro

To begin I would like to address my opponents lake of citation or credibility in their supposed source. Valued audience take note that con refuses and even questions how I connect slavery with racism when it seems easy to explain on a level of basic moral humanity that enslaving one because of being above them in skin color is the definition of racism.

My opponent tries to justify that slavery was not a problem of the civil war by stating the lack of the issue of slavery mentions in letters and diaries of civil war soldiers but I ask why would soldiers sending letters to loved one at homes or writing about the days battles and the loss of close comrades hold mention to what the time was a debate of politics? We can look to modern day letters soldiers write to home and seldom are politics mentioned as while in war their concern in the least is politics but rather those they love knowing they could be killed the next day. Self government of the South involves the protection of slavery and nearly the entirety of the Southern economy was based on slave labor in the cotton fields so despite con's attempt at deflecting the issue of slavery both the Southern government and economy all link back to one key issue, Slavery which is again why I reemphasize it begins the Declaration of Secession of almost every confederate state and is mentioned 83 times.

My opponent tries to claim the Morilll tariff as the cause of the civil war but let us take a closer look at the tariff
which was "adopted on March 2, 1861, During the administration of President James Buchanan, A Democrat" (Wikipedia. No single issue as I mentioned caused the civil war and it's beginning was a final explosion of build up through slow increased tensions between the North and South over the big issue, Slavery, The "northern control" my opponent speaks of was it's increased regulation on SLAVERY, The "northern aggression" my opponent speaks of is the Northern push to end the Southern lifestyle which included SLAVE work. It seems the con thinks of the Confederacy as a just cause in defending the South and gives a picture of innocent in the Confederacy but do not be mistaken for the Confederate states were full of racist who thought of themselves as superior to African Americans. The South economy ran on agriculture and manpower for this industry was supplied almost completely through the selling and auctions of slaves so yes the South declared war for economics and norther control but their economics were based on slavery something the north was starting to turn against. The South was undoubtedly a racist place before and after the civil war as we can simply look to the Jim Crow laws put in place almost immediately after the civil that allowed legal segregation, The South was racist.

Establishing the South which made up the Confederacy was indeed one of racist attitudes I point out that my opponent has failed to address how a battle flag which was flown in the skirmishes of the civil war for a nation of traitors who were defending the immoral cause of slavery can not be in itself racist, The flag stood for the Confederacy and the Confederacy stood for the right of slavery, The right of slavery was racist.
Athias

Con

First:

"To begin I would like to address my opponents lake of citation or credibility in their supposed source. "

I do not lack a credible source. This site refuses to allow me to make reference to these particular citations. I'll try again:

The Causes of the Civil War by Kenneth Stampp, A noted Civil War historian.
Why They Fought by historian, James McPherson.

"Valued audience take note that con refuses and even questions how I connect slavery with racism when it seems easy to explain on a level of basic moral humanity. . . "

Seem is not an argument; seem is an impression. I do not take issue with your connecting slavery and racism. I take issue with your conflating them. Slavery and Racism are discrete concepts. They are not interchangeable.

"My opponent tries to justify that slavery was not a problem of the civil war"

Lincoln stated in his inaugural address that he had no intention of disturbing the practice of slavery: "I have no purpose, Directly or indirectly, To interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, And I have no inclination to do so. "

"lack of the issue of slavery mentions in letters and diaries of civil war soldiers but I ask why would soldiers sending letters to loved one at homes or writing about the days battles and the loss of close comrades hold mention to what the time was a debate of politics? We can look to modern day letters soldiers write to home and seldom are politics mentioned as while in war their concern in the least is politics but rather those they love knowing they could be killed the next day. "

This is a logically fallacious rebuttal. This is an argument from incredulity. Your not believing it does not make it false. I cited my reference.

"Self government of the South involves the protection of slavery and nearly the entirety of the Southern economy was based on slave labor in the cotton fields so despite con's attempt at deflecting the issue of slavery both the Southern government and economy all link back to one key issue, Slavery which is again why I reemphasize it begins the Declaration of Secession of almost every confederate state and is mentioned 83 times. "

No, The Southern economy was mostly--not entirely--based on agriculture and depended on exports for other goods. Slavery was a substantial portion of their economies, But it did not define it.

"My opponent tries to claim the Morilll tariff as the cause of the civil war but let us take a closer look at the tariff
which was "adopted on March 2, 1861, During the administration of President James Buchanan, A Democrat"

Yes, Let me revise my earlier statement. The Morill Tariff was passed in the Spring of 1861, Not 1860. It was passed just two days before Lincoln's inauguration.

"No single issue as I mentioned caused the civil war and it's beginning was a final explosion of build up through slow increased tensions between the North and South over the big issue, Slavery, The "northern control" my opponent speaks of was it's increased regulation on SLAVERY, The "northern aggression" my opponent speaks of is the Northern push to end the Southern lifestyle which included SLAVE work. "

I didn't mention "aggression, " but it suffices nonetheless. And by no means was the Morill Tariff a "regulation on slavery. " It was meant to protect domestic Northern industries (e. G. Pennsylvania Steel Industry) by hampering the competition of European exporters. Lincoln himself who would see the Tariff through stated himself that he did not care to disturb the institution of slavery. The Union also faced a desertion crisis in 1863, After the emancipation, Because their soldiers didn't want to fight for "black freedom. " (McPherson. )

"The South economy ran on agriculture and manpower for this industry was supplied almost completely through the selling and auctions of slaves. "

This much has been acknowledged at least in part. But how does this inform racism? Or the dependence on racist attitudes?

The South was undoubtedly a racist place before and after the civil war as we can simply look to the Jim Crow laws put in place almost immediately after the civil that allowed legal segregation, The South was racist. "

The South was racist? How? Because of Law? Would Free Blacks in the South who owned Slaves, And allegedly fought for Slavery in the Civil War, Not undermine this? What about Anthony Johnsnon, Who was a black landowner in Virginia, And became one of the first to establish legal chattel slavery? Or are we once again conflating slavery with racism simply because American slaves were mostly black and slave owners were mostly white? Are we going to forget that Slavery is a historical institution that has been practiced inter-ethnically and intra-ethnically?

"I point out that my opponent has failed to address how a battle flag which was flown in the skirmishes of the civil war for a nation of traitors who were defending the immoral cause of slavery can not be in itself racist, "

I propose the Civil War Battle flag isn't symbolic of racism--even if we are to in this context combine it with slavery--because the timing doesn't follow. The Confederacy was formed in February, The Morill Tariff, Which was not a regulation of slavery but a hamper to foreign exports, Was passed in March, And the Civil War began in April of 1861. Why did Lincoln wait a year to present a draft for emancipation? Why was it passed as a military measure? Why did he exempt confederate states under union control from said measure? Because the war wasn't about slavery (alone or primarily. ) The Confederacy didn't form because of slavery (alone or primarily. ) It was primarily about the tariff and the control of the Northern protectionists.

Thanks to my opponent. And sorry for the mix up.
Debate Round No. 3
AmericanDebator1776

Pro

AmericanDebator1776 forfeited this round.
Athias

Con

Athias forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Athias 3 years ago
Athias
I'll post both a rebuttal, And a closing argument. Refutation is a bit of tall task since symbolism is ultimately subjective. Await my response.
Posted by Athias 3 years ago
Athias
Sorry, I posted the wrong argument. Ignore what I just posted.
Posted by AmericanDebator1776 3 years ago
AmericanDebator1776
To specify I am referring to the modernly known battle flag of confederacy that has come to represent it
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