The Instigator
General_Smiley
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Speedrace
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The DCEU Justice league beats the MCU Avengers

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2019 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,065 times Debate No: 120628
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

General_Smiley

Pro

The purpose of this debate is to determine who is stronger (Who would win in a fight) the MCU Avengers or the DCEU Justice League.

MCU Avengers: Spiderman, Iron Man, Captain America, Ant-man, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Hulk, Black Panther, Thor, Black Widow, Falcon, War machine, Vision.

vs

DCEU Justice League: Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Batman

Round 1 is Acceptance
Best of Luck
Speedrace

Con

I accept. I found it a bit puzzling that you gave the Avengers so many characters and the Justice League so few but ok. Would you like me to select five superheroes to match yours?

ALSO you forgot to include Green Lantern, Cyborg, Or Martian Manhunter. >:O
Debate Round No. 1
General_Smiley

Pro

I didn't add Martian Manhunter because of the fact that he isn't in the DCEU yet. He is in the CW but not the DCEU. But you are correct in the Fact that I did indeed forget Cyborg.

I will start off with Superman. We have Superman take some full force punches that are harder than basically anything we have seen Hulk intentionally take. So we can say that Superman scales above all the characters of the characters in the strength department. Secondly, We already know that Superman is insanely fast. In fact, He flew from the fortress of solitude to Africa in approx 9 seconds. So a case of a speed blitz is definitely possible. We also know that he is faster than doomsday's heat vision which has been stated to near the speed of light.

Additionally, We had a news clipping in BvS shows that Superman Pushed 1 or more tectonic plates away from each other saving a very large earthquake. Seeing as the newspaper clipping said large its at least a 7-10 on the Richter scale. The weight alone on an average tectonic plate would be 24 quintillion tons, That's not even calculating the force he would need to push this tectonic plate or plates. It can also be stated that is pre-Ressurection supes. Resurrection supes gets an insane amp. And is way stronger.

He also totally destroyed Stephen Wolf who is a New God and is stronger than the rest of the justice league to handle. It is also stated that He is massively hypersonic. Whenever Superman came in he took him out rather quickly.

Also, We saw that he took on the rest of the Justice League and demolished them while seeing the flash move which is really quick.
Speedrace

Con

You seem to be focusing on Superman this round, So I will look at who all could beat him on my team.

I think that Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Hulk, And Vision can all beat Superman.

Scarlet Witch:

Canonically, Scarlet Witch has had the power to make random, Unlikely events happen. She later developed the power to control what those events were. This power alone could demolish Superman by simply doing something such as turning is blood into kryptonite or something of that nature. In addition, In the movies, She has demonstrated very strong telekinesis powers and could control Superman himself. Lastly, She has also demonstrated telepathy to a certain extent and could make Superman go crazy from fear.

Dr. Strange:

I mean, Like seriously, This guy is the ultimate sorcerer. He could easily pull a trick like Wong did on Black Dwarf, Or perform any number of illusions or teleportations or seriously anything on Superman. For example, He could make him fall forever like he did to Loki, Or if he had access to the Time Stone, He could put him into a time loop like he did with Dormammu.

Hulk:

I mean, Come on. This guy PUNCHED TIME ITSELF, Stopped a CELESTIAL from stepping on the Earth, And almost destroyed the U. S. WITH A SINGLE STEP. Hulk could beat Superman easily.

Vision:

He is extremely smart and a quick thinker, Which automatically puts him at an advantage. One thing he has that Superman does not is the ability to become intangible, So he could do that and then rematerialize inside of Superman and kill him in that manner. He could also find numerous ways to defeat Superman because of these powers.
Debate Round No. 2
General_Smiley

Pro

First off these characters are from the movies. What movie did Hulk punch time itself? Or stop a celestial in the Movies. These claims mean nothing because they are not apart of the MCU.

You still are not accounting for a speed blits of these characters. Sure, These Characters have superpowers and enhanced abilities, But Superman I calculated to be at the very least massively Hypersonic. So He could very in fact speed blits every single one of them. Yes, They have powers, But they have regular if not a tiny bit faster than normal human reaction speed. Even Dr strange with the time stone has human reaction speed with the time stone until he activates it.

So Superman could quite literally speed blitz most if not all the characters you just mentioned. Hulk and Vision are the exceptions. Even still they can not keep up with Superman who is literally scaled to a lowball hypersonic if not Lightspeed.

Next, I would like to move to Aquaman. I would first like to start out with the fact the DC itself stated that DCEU Atlanteans are close to Kryptonians in power. That is a fact. Secondly, Aquaman is massively Hypersonic because he fought Steppenwolf who is a new god and is stated to be Massively hypersonic and he couldn't tag Aquaman easily.

Aquaman is trained in multiple forms of martial art and has fought pretty evenly with orm who is a level 8 Dan in xebel-fu. It is insanely impossible to even get on a list of ten in xebel-fu. If you are even considered on the list at all you are one of the best fighters to ever live. Next I Will do a strength Feat for him. You know that submarine in the trailer well that is calculated to be 579, 283 tons. Oh, And he did it with ease. Once again that is more than we have seen Hulk and any of the heavy hitter in the MCU lift. He is faster and has a better reaction time than any of the MCU heroes as well. So only using two characters I could already speed blitz half your team easily.

We haven't seen hardly any feats for Hulk that even scale near that and he has the speed advantage. Aquaman also had a durability advantage he healed from Atlantean tech which is the newest and best and he heal from it in seconds after black manta fired a fully charged shot at his chest and heald in seconds.

I would like to take on vision. Once again both of the characters I stated could still speed blitz we. We don't have any proficient reaction time to even early counter a Hypersonic speed. Their speed on their own could get there before Vision can even think about turning intangible. They can take him out pretty quick

You didn't talk about how any of your characters could even keep up with these characters that obviously scale way higher in strength and definitely speed. Both of these characters can wipe the floor compared to the characters you compared to Superman

Also Once again make sure we are talking movies, Not Comics. Because the debate is over the Movie versions, Not the comic ones hence DCEU (DC extended Universe) and MCU (Marvel Cinematic Universe).
Speedrace

Con

I would like to point out that, In addition to forgetting Cyborg, You forgot Hawkeye. Surprisingly, He may be my wild card XD

Hawkeye demonstrated in Age of Ultron that he can easily incapacitate speedsters, So he could do the same to Flash. Aquaman and Superman would be a bit trickier, But he could also use any number of gadgets whipped up by Iron Man, Or simply Kryptonite if he got his hands on some.

I also think that Spider-Man could trip up Flash if he was distracted because the Flash is only fast and not strong (when he's not moving) and has been demonstrated to be extremely clumsy in the movies.

I realize my mistake on the strength of Hulk. However, He stopped a Chitauri mothership with ONE HAND. Besides this, We know that the angrier he gets, The stronger he gets, So his strength has no limit while Superman's seems to have one.

As to Vision, He thinks ultra-fast, And speed blitzing would simply not work on him because he is too smart and would see it coming.

Again, Assuming the team was smart, Heavy hitters such as Thor and Hulk would take the front while Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, And other weaker heroes would take the back.

Black Widow, Captain America, And Spider-Man could easily take out Batman, No questions asked. Actually, Captain America could do that by himself XD

Scarlet Witch and Dr. Strange could both trap any number of heroes. Scarlet Witch could telekinetically stop Superman or Wonder Woman in their tracks, And Dr. Strange could Sling Ring them to an infinitely falling dimension.

Scarlet Witch could ALSO send any of these people into a fear craze like the one she used on Hulk, Thor, And other Avengers.

In Thor 1, Thor actually caused an earthquake with a SINGLE HIT. Because of this, I think that he could stand a chance against Wonder Woman (leave Superman to the magic people + Hulk) and take her out simple force.


Besides this, In Civil War, Iron Man stated that he can do MORE FORCE than a NUCLEAR STRIKE. We saw in Batman V. Superman that that would actually be enough to take Superman out, So with help from someone like Hulk to hold him down, Iron Man and War Machine could simply pummel Superman into oblivion.


Another wild card would be Ant-Man. He could simply get into the ear of Aquaman or Wonder Woman and enlarge himself (although it would be pretty gross).

Ant-Man becoming Giant Man would also pose a problem because speed blitzing would not work on him due to his size, And serving as a distraction would give his teammates plenty of time to do some damage.

Also, Black Panther has demonstrated that his suit is completely indestructible. Speed blitzing him would not work and he could actually use that energy back on his assailants.
Debate Round No. 3
General_Smiley

Pro

HEY, BUDDY DID YOU NOT READ A SINGLE THING ABOUT HOW THE FOLLOWING HAVE ONLY HUMAN REACTION or maximum of above average human reaction.

That list would include Hawkeye, Iron Man, Captain America, Ant-man, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Black Widow, Falcon, And Black Panther. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT THESE CHARACTERS CAN DODGE AND ATTACK AT MINIMUM OF Massively Hypersonic speed. That is total Crap.

They are NOT SUPER POWERED they have NO speed amp. They literally have no chance of even tagging character that can move at that speed (Massively Hypersonic). If you continue to say that they even have a chance of tagging and hitting a critical shot or can dodge an attack from a character that is literally hundreds of times faster than themselves or close to light speed I will call it out on it because that is a total fallacy.

Your Vision comment was also pretty dumb, Sure he can think faster than the rest He still can"t even touch a character moving at hypersonic speed. In fact I will bet you that you CAN"T find a scene where Vision is moving insanely quicker than the rest of the Avengers. Even if you do it"s not fast enough to tag Superman who I calculated to be a little lower than light speed. Literally, Every one of the characters you have mentioned combined have been not proficient by far. To beat either both of the character I mentioned. It is generally accepted that the start of the or lowest to be considered Hypersonic speed is Mach 5 or in terms for you 3691. 05mph. But I didn"t say they were bare minimum I actually said massively Hypersonic. So we can say it is significantly faster than this.

So just for you, I will add all of your characters speeds together. I will even set them at 50 mph. I am being very generous by saying that for all of your human characters. And guess what that makes out to 450 mph is all so FOR YOUR CALCULATIONS at the bare minimum to qualify as hypersonic minus the speed of your human characters.
Guess what that is still a 3241. 05 mph deficit on your part. And seeing as Aquaman is the only Character I have calculated at massively hypersonic He would be 3241. 05 mph faster than the Human reaction characters. But that is only a bare minimum calculation. This calculation. And you have nothing any of these characters can do.

This isn"t even Mentioning Superman who is near Light speed like Calculated near light speed. Hey, I will be generous again let you Vision go at 1, 000 mph which is unsubstantiated in all rights.

"Light travels at a constant, Finite speed of 186, 000 mi/sec. A traveler, Moving at the speed of light, Would circum-navigate the equator approximately 7. 5 times in one second. By comparison, A traveler in a jet aircraft, Moving at a ground speed of 500 mph, Would cross the continental U. S. Once in 4 hours. "
-Nasa

So we can say that Superman could almost be light speed. And minimum could circle the equator around 5-7 times in 1 second. You're actually mentally ill if you think any one of your characters can take on a character that fast. WTF ARE YOU SAYING THAT SCARLET WITCH AND DR. STRANGE, CAN STOP A CHARACTER NEAR THE SPEED OF LIGHT. They can barely think a little faster than normal humans.

This isn"t even Talking about Wonder Woman who is also massively HYPERSONIC SPEED AND FLASH WHO IS NEAR, OR FASTER THAN SUPERMAN, So that is 2 Light speed characters and 2 massively hypersonic Characters. We aren"t even calculating Wonder Woman"s combat skills. She was able to kill an actual god THE GOD OF WAR ARES.
Don"t ever make an argument saying that your human reaction characters could even touch near light speed or Hypersonic Speed characters. I have 2 light speed character and at least 2 Hypersonic Speed Characters. Compared to Human reaction character that can"t work unless they have time. Which they can"t because they will get speed blitzed.

I have been Generous with speed and attack potency with you and I haven"t even revealed anything about Batman, Or Cyborg. I have given Calculations, And you have not. I also stated that Post-resurrection Supes is way stronger than pre-resurrection so using a BvS feat against him doesn"t work. But you use his feat from BvS to say he can barely take a Nuke. Because you can"t scale his weakness potency effectively. Also you are using Head Cannon to debate which is not allowed anywhere else, Don"t use it here.
Speedrace

Con

You completely ignored what I said. First of all, As I said, If my team of heroes was smart, They would put Hulk, Thor, And even Black Panther on the front lines since they are all the invulnerable ones. Yes, They can be speed-blitzed, But not in the way you would expect. For example, Superman could rush at Hulk, But he could not simply just knock him out. He would have to push him for a while and there would be a struggle, And Hulk could grab one of Superman's arms or legs and start thrashing him around in that time. Hypersonic and lightspeed blitzes could only work if they can knock them out or kill them. They cannot do that to characters such as the Hulk and Thor.

Besides this, Dr. Strange has already demonstrated that he can cast spells BEFOREHAND, So he could literally just cast a spell that prevents speed blitzing. Simple.

As to Hawkeye, He has already demonstrated in the movies an ability to hit speedsters, So he could easily take out the Flash, And then Superman if he had kryptonite or even an electrocuting device.

Iron Man and War Machine could release their full force on him as well. After Hawkeye has hit and stunned Superman, At least for a second, They would be able to destroy him with power well over that of a nuke. In addition, Hulk could simply hold Superman down while he was being pummeled.

Yes, Superman may be stronger post-resurrection, But can you prove that he is more DURABLE? I think not. YOU are using head cannon by saying he is without proof.

As to Superman's strength, The newspaper you used is not credible:

https://comicvine. Gamespot. Com/forums/gen-discussion-1/dceu-superman-shifted-tectonic-plate-1872965/

Black Panther could take on Wonder Woman. He is completely invulnerable to all hits and has heightened speed and strength. Yes, Her speed might be a problem, But all he has to do is simply wait for her to hit him and then release that energy straight back at her as he did in the movie.

Thor could take Aquaman. He caused an earthquake in the movies with a SINGLE HIT. That is easily more force than it would take Aquaman to lift a simple submarine. Besides this, Thor has vanquished countless enemies in seconds, And he even destroyed the Bifrost bridge, Which takes an immense amount of force.

Batman could be taken down by literally anyone on my team. I'll let Captain America do it.

As to Dr. Strange and Scarlet Witch, As I have shown, The buff characters on my team would prevent your team from simply speed blitzing everyone simply because those characters are invulnerable and you would have to use some other strategies to stop them. Because of this, All it will take is a second and Dr. Strange could react with his Sling Ring while Scarlet Witch either telekinetically or telepathically controls your team.

Now about Vision, I never stated that he could move very quickly, But he can REACT very quickly because he has extremely fast reflexes and is very smart. Because of this, He might not be able to move out of the way if someone attacks him, But he could simply become intangible in an instant, And then become tangible an instant later, Splitting the attacker in half.

Ant-Man could do something similar and simply grow to Giant-Man after sneaking up someone's nose or ear or other body hole.

Every single one of these facts is from the movies. I haven't even employed Spider-Man or Black Widow yet.
Debate Round No. 4
General_Smiley

Pro

General_Smiley forfeited this round.
Speedrace

Con

I never said Hulk would fight Aquaman, I said that Thor would. As I said, Thor caused an EARTHQUAKE with ONE PUNCH. Aquaman hasn't done anything even close to this, So Thor could easily knock him out.

As to Hawkeye, I have already stated that he can hit speedsters, So the Flash is no problem at all. Superman is not either if Hawkeye gets an electrocuting device or kryptonite.

Batman can serve as a distraction? Captain America withstood a 600 FOOT FALL. He simply SHRUGGED OFF a hit from THOR. Batman is dead against him.

I said Hulk could hold down Superman because he is much bigger than him. If he simply grabs one of his legs, Superman would not be able to fly away. He couldn't do that to Thanos simply because Thanos was his size. Also, The Hulk beat Abomination, Who was MUCH bigger and stronger than him. Hulk simply has no limits to his strength. Thor never beat Hulk, And the Hulkbuster was able to beat him simply because he was under the effects of Scarlet Witch and the spell was being lifted.

About nuking Superman, THAT'S MY POINT. Nuking him would block out all of his sunlight and he would simply wither and die. Iron Man and War Machine could both accomplish this.

About his tectonic feat, I CAN refute it. Him beating Steppenwolf has nothing to do with the tectonic plates, And as I showed that source is not credible.

Superman only beat Doomsday with the help of Wonder Woman and some kryptonite, Otherwise, He would have gotten destroyed.

"You said that Black Panther is invincible, But yet his suit was glitching out in the train scene at the end of Black Panther and his body was exposed. "

That only happened because of SOUND WAVES, The things Shuri built into the trains to make them work.


"Black Panther might not be able to be stabbed or penetrated but he could get hit with a hard enough to mess up his internal organs (Facts and having your organs jumbled up will kill you). "

Oh, But the Flash (who has human skin/flesh) can run at light speed and his organs are fine? That's a direct contradiction sir. Black Panther would be just fine. Wonder Woman's sword hit flesh when she battled Ares, But Vibranium is too strong and it completely absorbs kinetic energy. As to the space thing, Iron Man and War Machine or Hawkeye could've taken him out already.

Wonder Woman could not simply cut off Thor's head. In fact, The movies show that Thor is MUCH stronger than Wonder Woman, And he could simply hit her once and she would get knocked out.

"To a person light moves so quick that your body has no possibility of moving at that speed. "

You're right, But that wasn't my point. There is something called DRAG. It would take TIME for Superman to push Hulk because Hulk has an immense MASS, And he cannot simply knock him out. In that TIME Hulk could grab one of Superman's limbs and stop him from moving at all.

As to the Dr. Strange spells thing, He cast a spell on the time stone so that Ebony Maw couldn't take it. As to how he would know, He could simply guess. It's not that hard.

As to the Vision thing, Vision was completely taken by surprise. As YOU said, He would go in here knowing he was about to fight, So he could even go in being intangible in the first place.

Cyborg could just be nuked by Iron Man, Or Spider-Man could beat him (he beat Vulture). As to the looking at the Internet for their weaknesses, Iron Man could easily do that too. In fact, Spider-Man could do that as well if he had his upgraded suit.

This was fun!
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sarah_mir 2 years ago
Sarah_mir
Excuse me? No one can beat Batman easily. The speed at which he thinks and his level of intelligence is exceptionally high, No one is even comparable to him. Most of the Marvel characters have powers that no normal human can posses and some of them are not even human (I cannot stand Marvel actually). If those powers would be removed from these so-called heroes, They would be nothing but dust versus Batman.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
They really need to come back and fix this website :(
Posted by General_Smiley 3 years ago
General_Smiley
Yeah I saw that and I am am really confused. I had a full argument that you replied to. And it just like deleted it.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
Why does it say you forfeited?
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
The Flash still has human organs and flesh, So by your logic, He should have major internal damage.

The vibranium in Black Panther's suit is refined as well, Ultron's wasn't

Good debate :D
Posted by General_Smiley 3 years ago
General_Smiley
Flash has speed force that is why he can outrun things and also stated in the movie that his suit is made out the same material rockets are made out of so it won't break.

And Vibranium is inconsistent because all of ultrons bodies were vibranium and they all fell apart.

These are just tiny things I wanted to point out for future reference, But very good debate my guy.
Posted by General_Smiley 3 years ago
General_Smiley
Continuing the last comment I stated that Superman had pushed 24 quintillion tons. The Chitauri mothership is nowhere near 24 quintillion tons. Where TF are you getting that Superman has limits and yet the Chitauri mothership is significantly lighter? That was on a newspaper clipping which means its a minor feat.
Posted by General_Smiley 3 years ago
General_Smiley
I realize my mistake on the strength of Hulk. However, He stopped a Chitauri mothership with ONE HAND. Besides this, We know that the angrier he gets, The stronger he gets, So his strength has no limit while Superman's seems to have one.

WTF are you talking about, Post-resurrection has had literally no difficulty fighting Steppenwolf and hasn't had any trouble fighting anyone else. Where the hell are you getting that he has limits. Once again a statement by you that had no validity too.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
Oh my bad I was thinking DC not DCEU
Posted by General_Smiley 3 years ago
General_Smiley
Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern are not in the DCEU yet
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