The Instigator
noreasontoimpeach
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
billsands
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Electoral College is a logical system

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/1/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 593 times Debate No: 119260
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

noreasontoimpeach

Pro

The Electoral College is a system that has benefited the United States because of the way it keeps politicians from staying in the big cities and pushes them out to the smaller states as in those states, Each vote can be worth more in smaller states than each vote in big states like California, New York, Etc. The electoral college resists the idea of mob rule, Which has taken over many different countries. It resisted anti-black hatred throughout the south in the early 1900's. If they could threaten everyone into voting for their candidate, Then there would've been countless racists running our country. Also the idea that the Electoral College is undemocratic is ridiculous. The United States is NOT a democracy, It is a constitutional republic (look it up). The founding fathers thought pure democracy was "pure evil" and made the electoral college for exact reason of avoiding pure democracy. The way our government works is based upon elective representation, Why should we change that?
billsands

Con

It is only logical if you have contempt for the democratic process and ts asic premise one man one vote, Oh excuse me one person on vote, What defined a man or a person has changed in the days when the electoral college, Only white christian men with property were considered people, And slavery was legal women were considered chattel, What sort of sick freak endorses such a perverse world view, A olot of people think Hitler made a lot of sense, Are you one of those jew hating monsters, I don't care what reactionaries consider logical, Democracy is basically one person one vote, Constituional guaratess to protect rights of minorities are fine. . But rich people don't have thee ordained rigt to ruel thats the divine right of kings, Not democracy, So f you! Those that make peeaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.
Debate Round No. 1
noreasontoimpeach

Pro

First of all, Check your grammar and spelling because it is hard to take you seriously because multiple times I could not understand what your are trying to say.

Second, The original group of voters was free male landowners and it had nothing to do with religion. Back then the majority of people living in the US were Christian because of groups such as pilgrims who fled to America to escape persecution. Also, Literally all of that was solved, At latest, In the sixties so I don't know what battle you are trying to fight.

Third, The electoral college literally caused Abraham Lincoln to win the election and institute his plans to free all slaves in the United States. He received 39. 8% of the vote, Which if in a pure democracy would create a run-off between him and the next highest vote-getter, Who would have been the Northern democratic candidate Stephen A. Douglass, Who would have won the election instead. He would have gotten pretty much every vote from the southern democratic candidate John C. Breckenridge which would have created his total to be 48% of the vote alone, Not adding votes that may have come from the other candidate John Bell.

Pause for one second, Can you please tell me how I hate Jews? You have no basis behind that and also I'm a republican. Unlike the common news media tends to tell the tale, Republicans support Israel, Which is a majority JEWISH country.

Last, The whole point of a constitutional republic is to not have a king. That is why there are term limits. There will be no revolutions in the United States because of a representative system. If it was a pure democracy, Smaller states would not matter. 10 states make up half of the entire US population, So if there was not an electoral college system, The government officials would only care about the issues of high population states because they could still win by ignoring the majority of states. Another reason why the electoral college exists is to resist voter fraud, Because in the 1800's, People voted multiple times in order to attempt to swing elections. The electoral college would resist mass voter fraud for example in California, Where if 10% of voters voted twice, Then any state out of the 23 states with the lowest populations would essentially not matter.
P. S. Personal Insults don't work in political discussions. Bring actual facts that prove something, Don't call people members of the National Socialist German Workers' Party or democrats from the 1800's. Also did you know that until 1996, In close elections, The south's electoral votes were majority democratic.
billsands

Con

Many say that we are not a Democracy, But a Republic, But actually we are both. A Republic is a form of Government. Democracy is the method of selecting the representatives of that government, People don't understand that. Because people particularly Americans tend to be stupid. If we are not a Democracy then why dowe even bother with elections? In order to have a proper election, We need to insure it is represetative, One man one person one vote. The electoral college is an onerous anachronism from an undemocratic and backwards era >
Debate Round No. 2
noreasontoimpeach

Pro

The United States is not a democracy, We are constitutional republic. I do not think you understand that pure democracy sucks. The founding fathers knew this and they created the system that currently exists in order to avoid that. If this was a pure democracy, California would dominate the entire political landscape as they have over 10% of eligible voters, But they don't dominate the elections. Smaller states such as Iowa, Ohio and other swing states because their say matters in the electoral college but in a pure popular vote it would not matter. The electoral college is one of the checks and balances that keeps our country stable. Also if you only wanted this because you think Hillary would have won if the system was purely on popular vote, Stop being so naive and sensitive. BTW, Trump has done a pretty good job with our economy, Something Hillary knows not much about.
(She almost became out first f president. I meant to say female but I deleted the emale)
billsands

Con

The United States is both a Democracy, And a Republic, Sorry but you are wrong, Dead wrong. The Founders dis trusted the mob they dis trusted the idea of a direct democracy, Few nations used that, All if not all them almost all Democratic nations are limited by a constitution. The problem is, You lack a basic understanding of those terms. And besides who the hell cares what the Founders intended? They condoned slavery, They felt women were chattle and the indigenous population were subhuman, By todays standards they were criminals, We'd put them all in jail. They were not good people. For their day the y wee very progressive and visionary, By todays standards they are totally reactonary.

The whole problem with our society is people that think like you. . We can't arrest yo and put you in re education camps. . As tempting as that is, Because as you say. . We do have a constituion and thats good. . I suppose. . I'd really like to put you in a fema camp almost as much as you'd like to put me in a nazi style death camp like you did other jews and you did to the japanese. . Lets remember your wonderful constituion is just a piece of paper, It didnt stop you from commited genocide against the whole native population enslaving raping Africans by the millions, How dare you how dare you. . Do you remember licoln suspending habeoes corpos? In the civil war, The intern ment of the japnese? Segregation? Lynching? The way my immigrant ancestors were treated like animals when they got off the boat? So much for you rotten republic and its silly constotution, Its a piace of paper you applied mostly to rich white men only. .
times change. . Since FDR god bless him we refer to this as a democracy because the whole nature of our society changed with him and much for the better, The constituion is a living documtent we interpret it differently than the founders did. . You don't like thta too bad. . We are taking over. . THOSE THAT MAKE PEACEFUL REVOLUTION IMPOSSIBLE MAKE VIOLENT REVOLUTION INEVTIABLE JFK
it doesnt matter what your white ancestors intedned they are long dead, It doesnt matter what you want. . Your not in charge we are, The will of the masses is all that matters. . One person one vote. . Or else
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by YFNA 3 years ago
YFNA
I think it is important to understand the what the United States was when the electoral college was devised.
Not a nation or country but a union of sovereign states with a federal government invested with and limited in its power by a constitution.
In the Treaty of Paris in 1783 King George III did not recognize the independence of a single nation but of thirteen, Independent and sovereign states.
The Declaration of Independence declared the colonies should be free and independent states.
The arguments presented by Federalists and Anti-Federalists when considering the adoption of the constitution centered on this very idea.
Fear of strong central government as the agent of tyranny.
And the need for a strong central government for the security of the states.
This all leads into the Civil War, Where the question was effectively answered.
The United States is one nation, Not a union of sovereign states.
This is why the electoral college is obsolete.
It no longer works as a mechanism for protecting the smaller states from the tyranny of the larger states.
Those conditions no longer exist.
Posted by billsands 3 years ago
billsands
The will of the people is the only legitimate government
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
I have had a debate on this recently. Yall should take a look. I outline the failures of the EC fairly well I believe.
Posted by IsaiahWOod23 3 years ago
IsaiahWOod23
People us a lot of big words, But in the end its very simple.
Normal people want what they want. And if America was letting the people with no knowledge of what is best for them, And vote. America will fall. People won't listen to the truth, Only desire. That is why we get experienced scholars who actually(to an extent) know what they are doing. That is better
Posted by YFNA 3 years ago
YFNA
I would be in favor of a proportional allotment of the electoral votes for any state based on the percentage of votes for the given candidate.
If we have a state with 8 electoral votes and candidate A receives 60% of the popular vote, They would be awarded 5 of those electoral votes ( rounding up or down). Candidate B who received 40% of the popular vote would be awarded the other 3.
This means everyone's vote counts.
Now in the electoral college if a candidate receives just 1 vote more than their opponent they are awarded all of the electoral votes for that state, So all of those votes in opposition mean nothing.
The only problem I can foresee is more presidential elections being decided in the House of Representatives due to the failure to achieve the necessary required electoral votes.
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