The Instigator
TheCounterArgument
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
BiggsBoonj
Con (against)
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0 Points

The Fixed Barter System Is The Purest Form Of Government

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/8/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,088 times Debate No: 120703
Debate Rounds (5)
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TheCounterArgument

Pro

First of all let me define what a barter system is. The original barter system is where if you want something, You trade for it, There is no governmental intervention. This however doesn't work, For example if you make shoes and need bread but the person who has bread already has shoes. I propose a FIXED barter system. Where if someone needs something, They can get it, With no governmental intervention. However, With the fixed one, If you need something you go ask and if they have it and are willing to give you some they will. But let's say that they want something in return. Instead of trading what they make for what you make, You can negotiate a trade that fits both of your needs. I am pro fixed barter system.

Now let me discuss the setup.
Round 1: Acceptance and Declare Point
Round 2: Primary Argument
Round 3: Rebuttals
Round 4: Secondary Arguments
Round 5: Closing Statement
BiggsBoonj

Con

I don't agree with your statement, So I accept your debate. I'll state my main argument in the second round, As you have asked.

There are a few illogical statements in your claim and your supporting arguments. A fixed barter system isn't a purest form of government because it's unrelated to goverment. Maybe you meant the best form of economics or the best economic model? I also can't understand your supporting arguments. Wouldn't a fixed barter system be equal to just a barter system? You said that in the original barter system, Two people exchange goods with no government intervention. Then you say that in a fixed barter system, You can negotiate a trade which fits both your needs. Isn't that already the concept of the original barter system? And finally, How would a fixed barter system be possible without government intervention?
Debate Round No. 1
TheCounterArgument

Pro

First I want to say thank you for accepting to debate me. I first want to say that a beater system is a sub grouping of a governmental economy, Sorry if I didn't make my point clear. The original idea of a barter system is trade, But the sellers can only sell what the other asks for. My idea is that of what most people think of when they hear barter, Trade with negotiation. I however want to make my point clear that I do not want to go back to a barter system, We have passed the point of ability to go back. If you look throughout history, Especially in the United States, You will see that people accepted the barter system and when people tried to change it there were major riots. When the United States was using bartering for currency people would trade one cow for let's say three chickens, And people were okay with it. I remember when I learned about the whiskey rebellion. People would put a value of whiskey on a certain item. It was a base of trade in the Harrisburg region. At that time however, George Washington wanted to stop this system so we could have a national currency. In Pennsylvania, The people didn't like that and wanted to keep bartering. After the news of the Harrisburg region not wanting to use a national currency, George Washington made a tax on making whiskey and even made making more than a certain amount of whiskey illegal. Even after hearing this, The Harrisburg region still refused to use this currency. After hearing this, George Washington sent over troops. When the troops arrived the rebels fought back, Throwing whiskey bottles at the troops before fleeing up into the hills. Because of this military force against people who wanted a barter system, The outcome was people living away from society and still using a barter system to this day. Because of being away from society they made their own that was stable. Now because of this we have hillbillies and illegal moonshine. The effects of this one riot have lasted hundreds of years. Before George Washington forced in a national currency, Everyone was fine with bartering. If one person needed sheep and had bread, They would trade three bread for one sheep, Everyone was fine with it. I still want to say that I think that we should go back to a barter system, Because we can't, But my point is that I believe that it is the purest form of a governmental economy.
BiggsBoonj

Con

You still haven't explained what a "fixed barter system" is, So I'll debate against the normal barter system. A barter system is when no currency is involved, And people simply exchange the two goods they want. Bartering in the US is perfectly legal if consensual. If a shop owner agrees to give you five loafs of bread in exchange for a bottle of whiskey, That's perfectly fine. There are no laws prohibiting barter, It's perfectly legal. I'm not sure what you're arguing for: that currency should be abolished and barter should be the only way of trading goods? That would be disastrous for the economy and I'll explain why.

I am a libertarian, So I believe consensual barter is perfectly fine. However, Only using barter as a way to exchange goods is much worse than having a standard currency. First of all, The value of everything becomes subjective. That house over there? Is it worth five cars or fifty cows? Or is it worth two thousands cans of beer? How big is someone's net worth and how much taxes does he own? In a barter system, Economics as a science can't exist. There is no way to calculate GDP, GDP per capita, An individual's net worth, Effectively collect taxes, And many other things which our society takes for granted.
Only using barter also prevents the economy from advancing forward. With no standard currency, Things like banks, Stock markets, Stores, Are impossible. A bank can't give you a loan because money doesn't exist, And you can't deposit anything in a bank either. You can't buy a stock in a company because while you barter for something the owner of the stock wants, The stock goes down/up in value. When you enter a shop and try to buy a cola, You have to barter with the shopkeeper. And what if the guy selling you the cola doesn't own the store, And you came to somewhere like Walmart? That just makes things endlessly more complicated. A standard currency enables banking, Stock markets, Large companies, And a growing economy. If we only use barter as a system and abolish currency, We will return back to the stone age.
Debate Round No. 2
TheCounterArgument

Pro

I get what you are seeing. Let me first ask you something, What is a dollar? A currency. Like I said in my previous argument whiskey was a standard. What I meant by that is 1 cow would be worth X amount of whiskey and bread would be worth Y amount of whiskey. Anything can be a currency if a society accepts it as such. I read what you said about taxes, Banks, And worth. Taxes wouldn't exist because money wouldn't exist. If you wanted something, You would trade for it. Banks wouldn't exist because people could just make more whiskey, Like how the United States makes more money. Someone's worth would be how much they own backed by whiskey. Before the United States left the gold standard, The dollar was backed by gold. A barter system was somewhat the same. If you wanted a horse, The horse would be backed by whiskey. There is really no difference between the modern economy and the barter economy. The only difference is that with a barter economy you have choice. The price is based on what the seller wants or will take. I want to set a scene. Imagine that the US dollar didn't exist and someone negotiated a trade so person A gets a blanket and person B gets fifty eggs. Now what is the difference between that and someone trading a blanket for fifty dollars? Nothing. No matter what you are trading, Should it be money or an object, The price of what something is worth depends on what someone thinks it is worth. If I wanted a soda and one store was selling it for one dollar and another store was selling it for two dollars, What would the price of a soda be? Everything is based on the value someone gives it. The Foundation for Economic Education posted a video perfectly explains what I believe a barter system would look like https://youtu. Be/1q2uDFn0ISw but I still want to say that I believe that we can never go back to barter system. I just believe it is the best way for a economy to run.
BiggsBoonj

Con

So a "fixed barter system" is like normal barter, But there is a huge chart which people use to determine what something is worth. Why? What is the point? What benefits would that bring to humanity? Absolutely none. You do not understand economics, So let me explain to you what a currency is:

Money is, Simply put, Is an IOU from society. It can be created by the government (dollars), Or not (bitcoins). But money is always an IOU from society. You earn money by contributing to society, And when you spend money you get that contribution back. For example: a farmer grows and sells crops. He uses that money to buy a cake from the baker. He contributed crops, He gets a cake. But the benefits of an IOU from society is that it can be used to purchase anything: from prostitutes to cars to drugs to furniture. While using a barter system can only get you something if the other person wants your product. With a currency, You can go to the baker and buy a cake even if the baker doesn't care about your crops. Without a currency, You have to search for the right baker until you find one. Currency doesn't have to be backed by anything, It's an IOU from society.

I have a huge surprise for you: THE PRICE OF WHAT SOMETHING IS WORTH IS ALREADY BASED ON WHAT VALUE SOMEONE GIVES IT. Supply/demand economics. If nobody wants something it drops in price, If people all want something the price increases. But it's far easier to measure the value of everything with a single currency than to use goods. A "fixed" barter system is stupid and would be even worse than a normal barter system, As it would stop people from valuing goods themselves. Plus, A "fixed" barter system would require government intervention. There are absolutely no benefits from abolishing currency and using barter; only problems.
Debate Round No. 3
TheCounterArgument

Pro

TheCounterArgument forfeited this round.
BiggsBoonj

Con

Since you forfeited the debate, I assume you gave up.
Debate Round No. 4
TheCounterArgument

Pro

TheCounterArgument forfeited this round.
BiggsBoonj

Con

Debate is over.
Debate Round No. 5
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