The Instigator
MSte123
Pro (for)
The Contender
AKMath
Con (against)

The Legislature is responsible for the Family Separation Policy at the US-Mexico border

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Debate Round Forfeited
AKMath has forfeited round #3.
Our system has not yet updated this debate. Please check back in a few minutes for more options.
Time Remaining
00days00hours00minutes00seconds
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/6/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 479 times Debate No: 116350
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

MSte123

Pro

The situation at the United States-Mexico border is an alarming one. The argument is that the Legislature, not the Executive, of the United States is solely responsible for the separation of families at the US-Mexico border.
AKMath

Con

No, the executive is. Trump literally signed an executive order to stop it (what a cuck). It's just going into effect very slowly. Btw, it's totally okay to separate kids from their parents at the border.
Debate Round No. 1
MSte123

Pro

I want to start by clarifying some points. I believe that if the United States does not offer social programs, such as welfare to immigrants, and the United States denies dangerous individuals into the country, there should be no laws on who may enter. I agree that having to separate children from their families is terrible.

The President"s only recent executive order relating to this topic has been to reunite the children with their families, not separate them. The con argument is that just because President Trump signed an executive order reversing the law, he created the law. These two points will addressed further in the argument.

When a parent commits a crime, the law does not mandate that the children accompany the parent to jail. The legislative branch is responsible for determining this specific course of action. The legislative branch is also responsible for determining if current law is moral and logical and, when there are cases of immoral and illogical laws, to legislate (make or enact laws) which solve the issue. This is because the Legislature is the most democratic branch of the government and has the strongest link to the Citizens of the United States. It is the closest link because it stands for re-election every two years.

Why is this important to the current situation? It is important in two ways. First, as a general rule across the United States, the legislature deemed that parents must be separated from their children when parents commit crime and serve jail time. Second, the legislature has also deemed that immigrants who attempt to enter the country without respecting the current immigration laws are criminals. In this specific case of illegal immigration, the children are unfortunately paying for the sins of their parents when they are forced to come to the United States illegally.

Now comes the purpose of the Executive Branch. The Executive Branch's purpose, i.e. President Trump's purpose, is to execute the current law. The Executive's job is not to determine if the law is moral and then change the law if it disagrees with the morality. This is because the United States does not want the power of law making in the hands of one man. If the case were that one man could create the law, we would be living in a de facto tyranny.

The Judiciary branch (supreme court, court of appeals, etc.) is responsible for determining if cases are legal based on current law, not on how they feel on an issue. This is because we do not want a de facto oligarchy. How does the Judiciary determine if a law is legal? The Courts looks at the current laws, which the Legislative Branch has passed and upheld, at the time of the ruling.

Now, what is the situation today? The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (the judiciary branch) ruled in Flores vs. Reno (1997) that you cannot keep illegal immigrant's children with their parents while the parents are detained in jail at the border. This ruling was, and still is based on current law. Since 1997 to 2017, the majority in congress has gone back and forth between the Democrats and the Republicans. From 1997 to 2017, no legislation was passed to fix the issue of separating families. Republicans, in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, have now proposed to fix the issue of separating families. Ted Cruz sponsored a bill specifically addressed to the issue of separation. However, that is a discussion for another time.

So, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals deemed that the separation of children at the border is constitutional and legal because that is current law. The Executive Branch, whose job it is to execute the current law, executes the policy. This execution occurred under BOTH President Obama and President Trump. So, it is not the fault of the executive branch (Presidents Obama and Trump) that this separation is occurring. It is the fault of the legislature not solving issues like seperation by lack of proper legislation. The policy is not President Trump"s Executive order, but the law of the land passed and upheld by Congress (the Legislative Branch) and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (the Judiciary Branch) from 1997-2017.

As stated before, President"s Trump Executive Order on this topic is reuniting the families. I have trouble with this for two reasons even though I agree with the morality of the order. The first is that the Legislature is in charge of creating law, not the president. Second, the Obama administration has openly admitted it attempted to keep children with their parents in prison and was properly sued for it. I think the blame should be on the members of Congress who refuse to pass legislation to fix the issue and the media who continue to promulgate that this issue is uniquely created by President Trump. The blame should not be put on the President of the United States.
AKMath

Con

I said it"s totally OKAY to separate kids from their kids at the border.
Debate Round No. 2
MSte123

Pro

The morality of seperating the families is not the issue of the debate. The issue of the debate is if the separation is the Legislative Branch's responsiblility. That being said, I believe I made the case for why the Legislative Branch is responsible. This is because the citizens of the United States do not want the power of law making in the hands of one man or a few unlected judges. So, when President Trump mandates an executive order which changes current law, it is a tyrannical action regardless of the morality of that action.


This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by MSte123 3 years ago
MSte123
I do not believe that the US government has overturned Flores. If it was, there would be a definitive solution to the separation problem. Currently, there is legislation proposed by Senator Ted Cruz and other republicans to address the specific issue of separation.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Didn't the US government already overturn Flores? Some families should be separated. An example is if your parents are too messed up. This applies to US citizens as well.
Posted by MSte123 3 years ago
MSte123
I think this issue is important because it shows the lack of knowledge of how the United States government is supposed to operate to avoid tyranny.
Posted by Father_Crowfield 3 years ago
Father_Crowfield
This is a very valid point, the executive order could fully fix the problem because of Flores. The legislative branch must overturn Flores or pass a law to reunite the families.
Posted by asta 3 years ago
asta
Although I disagree with the policy, I don't think it's a big deal.

Something that angers the right: Over 300,000 babies get aborted every year.
Something that angers the left: Tens of millions of Americans are not insured with health insurance.

Should our focus really be on only a few thousand people being separated?
This debate has 0 more rounds before the voting begins. If you want to receive email updates for this debate, click the Add to My Favorites link at the top of the page.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.