The Instigator
IsaiahxWood
Pro (for)
The Contender
Theweakeredge
Con (against)

The Only God Of the Bible is Inherently Good

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/14/2020 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 720 times Debate No: 126283
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (238)
Votes (0)

 

IsaiahxWood

Pro

So I Have the Simple Argument that the God of the Bible is Inherently Good, Which means is perfect(never done anything wrong) which also means he has never made a mistake. And everything Goes towards his eternal plan of salvation for his people. This argument also stems on the fact that God is Real and Evil is Real, Which means God cannot be evil and evil cannot be good.
Psalm 100:5
"For the LORD is good; His loving kindness is everlasting And His faithfulness to all generations. "

You may attack this argument in any format there are no "rules" besides respect.
Theweakeredge

Con

Hello, I'd like to thank my opponent for his proposal and jump straight into the debate.

"The god of the bibe is inherently good. " This is a moral claim and therefore relies upon uipon a proven moral framework to make. If my opponent can not establish one nad furthermore prove his god fulfills it, He has not met his burden of proof.

" Which means is perfect(never done anything wrong)" Next you will have to compare your god to a definition of perfect. I'll give you an example.

Here is the definition of "perfect" as the Merriam Webster defines it:

"a: being entirely without fault or defect: FLAWLESS
b: satisfying all requirements: ACCURATE
c: corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept"

Now, There are more definitions, But these aren't topical to this debate. The second one could be used, But "requirements" is more subjective a concept for some agent to fulfill. You might think she fulfills all requirements, While I might think she needs to do others. As such the second and third definitions will be scraped for this subjectivity.

This leaves us with the very first definition listed.

Fault is defined as: "1a: WEAKNESS, FAILING
especially : a moral weakness less serious than a vice

b: a physical or intellectual imperfection or impairment : DEFECT

2: responsibility for wrongdoing or failure

3a: MISTAKE"

Unlike before, Most of these definitions have something to do with what we're talking about and are all more or less topical. I think 1a and b are the best definitions and will be using those.

Heres the syllogism

P1: A perfect being is without faults or defects: flawless
P2: God's goal is to have us join him in heaven w/o forcing our freewill
P2: In order to get to heaven we have to believe in him
P3: More than half the planet do not believe in him.
Con: God was not able to convince us all to believe in him

That would logically lead you to the fact that he has a fault.

" which also means he has never made a mistake. " I feel this is more the pro's burden to prove, But I will mention that one of Mistake's definitions is: " to make a wrong judgment of the character or ability of" and god did let Adam and Eve alone.

". And everything Goes towards his eternal plan of salvation for his people. " This is a huge burden of proof, My opponent will have to logical deduce for us all how: The holocaust, Global warming, Natural disasters, World hunger, Every war, Etc, Etc, Etc. . . My opponent has quite the task set upon himself.

"This argument also stems on the fact that God is Real and Evil is Real, " You have made two assumptions. You will have to demonstrate both. I'd be willing to conceede that evil is real, But god is definitely something you'll have to prove.

"Which means God cannot be evil and evil cannot be good. " This does not logically follow. Even if both were real, How would it lead to neither being the other?

My oppoenent this uses a bible verse to evidence his arguments. One must prove the source before they can do that
Debate Round No. 1
IsaiahxWood

Pro

Thankyou for your kindness and i look forward to debating you. For this first round ill simply defend, And then attack the next.

So 1st I make the claim that God in inherently Good as the bible is. Now the defense of this is actually really simple. Scripture says that we are created in Gods image, Which means we get our Moral Frame work from him(this applies to conscience) but because we are clearly flawed we can't base our morals on Gods because we are not perfect and he is. Now a basic example of this is the ten commandments

do not murder
do not steal
do not lie
honor father and mother
do not commit adultery

Now the proof that God is perfect(flawless, And this is applying to moral character) is Jesus, If you read the gospels they clearly speak that Jesus(God) is flawless in nature, Loving, No mistakes, And follows the ten commandments perfectly.

So now i'll adress p2. We do not have complete free will. Most christians state this, As do others but its simply not true, Because everything we do to one point or another is part of Gods plan. Also, A question.
The God who created us has the right to do what he wills with his creation, And if we are his creation, What are we entitled to?

Also heres another thing, Theres a flaw in p3 and the con. God is just. And we are sinners imperfect in Gods sight, So if we reject him it's on us, Not Him if we go to heaven or not. Its illogical to blame God on our sin and rebellion against him. Because that means we have NO free will. But in P2 you said WE have to believe in him. Your contradicting your self in the question, Because you say We have to believe in Him, Buts its his fault if We don't. So whos to blame than, Is it both?
Scripture says that we are to blame for our rebellion, But God died and ressurected, So that we can be saved. So he gets the credit for our salvation.

Now you brought up an interesting accusation, That hurricanes, Holocaust, And other things are proof that God is evil, Or at-least imperfect. But theres 2 reasons why thats not true.
1 It was hitler that Did the Holocaust, Not God. Because God gave hitler the ability of free will does not mean his actions our Gods fault. Because he knew before hand does not mean its Gods fault. Its Hitlers plain and simple, Men our imperfect, God is perfect.

Also with natural disasters heres this, If all men are evil before God, Is there an Unjust death? If the wages of sin our death, And all man sin, Than why is a Hurricane Unjust?

And the Final one is the proof of the bible. Ill keep it fairly simple.
Theres not one single contradiction in the bible.
There are thousands of manuscripts dating prophesies, Which were fulfilled after it was prophesied, Which proves a level of revelation and divinity in the bible.
It also is true scientifically, Partial proof is carbon 14 in dinosaurs which are "millions of years old" but carbon14 only last 10000 years which proves that dating as a whole is false(with common science).
And I guess B. C proofs Jesus.
Theweakeredge

Con

Introductions
I'd like to thank my opponent for his curtesy and response- onto my opening statements

Next my opening Statement:
To date in this debate, Pro has not listed one extra-bibular source, And as such all arguments based upon the bible as an axiom should be dismissed via Hitchen's razor. I'd also like to point out that the pro has provided no other definitions, Seemingly accepting mine.

Rebuttals
You basically say that "God is perfect because the bible says he is" As jesus and god are considered the same character. A couple of problems, Jesus is only perfect according to the bible, But even your own understanding of jesus's supposed perfection is limited. He would have to fulfill EVERY law of the bible, Not only the 10 commandments. If it were only the 10 commandments, Which version, There are 3 separate versions in each translation.

It would be squarely god's fault. He made the rules of how to get to heaven, And what we could and couldn't understand. My syllogism isn't made in order to expose his moral failing but rather his ineptitude. It is a fact of the bible that you would have to believe in him in order to get to heaven. I could change premise 2 to: God has to convince us to believe in him, And it would still work. Better in fact. Your entire paragraph is nonsensical, If x made the rules of the game, And then x only gave us the choice to break the rules, Then it would be x's fault for us breaking the rules.

https://www. Atheists. Org/activism / resources/biblical-contradictions/ The sabbath day one is quite illuminating I must say. This entire website disproves your last "proof" As for "Carbon14" that is not an isotype commonly used to radioactively measure the earth's age, And not the only way we measure it.
https:// pubs. Usgs. Gov/gip/geotime / radiometric. Html This should thoroughly explain how radiometric dating actually works as you seem to have a flawed understanding.

Constructive

Extend: Fulfill your burden of proof for a perfect god, The bible being an accurate source, Syllogism

I will add onto this: God's own rules dictate that you shalt not kill, Steal, Etc. . . Yet he commands his own followers to murder thousands, Steal people from their own homes. Not only is this a contradiction in the bible, But in his apparent inherent goodness. Even by her own standard.
https:// naps. Org /Post/ When-Leaders-don't-Follow-the-Rules

Thank you for your time, Vote con.
Debate Round No. 2
IsaiahxWood

Pro

(cons) Paragraph 2 response
So I actually have no problems with your definitions which is why I never rebutted against it. Like your definition for perfection i have no problem with. And I noticed that(an ill bring this up later i'm sure) you separated moral perfection and lack of perfection in control of the world. Because I am Arguing that He is perfect across that board mean I have to argue them both together. Because God Says He is perfect across the board, So I believe him and argue that in this debate.
(Matthew 5:48)

Addressing Rebuttals
I do not know everything about Jesus. . . . Does not mean he's not perfect. I quote"But even your own understanding of jesus's supposed perfection is limited". Now For you to say that my knowledge is limited, Would mean that if my knowledge was UNLIMITED than that would prove that Jesus was perfect. That is flawed because I am not all knowing, And neither are you. I can't tell you the exact dates of all people i the bible, And you can't tell me if scientist are all biased against or for God. Point Being, Naturally(i'm human) my Knowledge is limited.

"He would have to fulfill EVERY law of the bible, Not only the 10 commandments. If it were only the 10 commandments, Which version, There are 3 separate versions in each translation. "

God made hundreds of commands, But not to all people. If you read Leviticus There are tons of commands, Like sacrificing animals, Offerings, Fasting, Etc. . But that was to Israel (O. T. ) for a certain Time period. For example, Circumcision, Theres no where is scripture that says all people must be circumcised, Or even all jews forever. Or heres another One. There was a time where eating certain meat was considered unclean(particularly with blood in it), But once Jesus Dies God tells Peter In ACTS that eating mean was ok. (he said this because Blood symbolized an unclean sacrifice animal, Which was a visual representation of God).

Because God gave us free will does not mean its God's fault that we take advantage of it. Scripture clearly says that "Man fall short for the Glory of God" and people are full of sin. Also that X concept you said doesnt apply to real life. Because If I made a law to not murder, And if you do murder you will go to jail and die, And you decide to murder. How can you blame the law maker for that. If was the Law Breakers decision to break the rules.

You said that "God commands his followers to murder thousands" I think your talking about Israel in the O. T. And If you read the bible and not people opinion over it, You'll find that All the people God commanded to wipe out did some of these things.
Ate there children(philistines)
Slaughtered other civilizations(ammonites)
Witch craft(The Flood Noah)
Theres plenty more, But i'm running out of space.

God only commanded Israel to kill Evil peoples in the O. T. Saying his Followers is wrong.

Thank you for respect and look forward to your response
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
238 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mk6520 3 days ago
mk6520
Hey Backy!
Its now been proven by yourself, That you have no idea what your talking about. ("Granted, I don't either, But I keep learning and progressing. ") This is why most of your claims are incorrect. Also, You are not really "learning", You honestly just copy and paste arguments without acknowledging what the other person has said.

But all the best!

-your friend Milky
Posted by backwardseden 3 days ago
backwardseden
OK child milky, The verses you gave in no possible way did your unproven storybook character fabled god of print only from your bible that you cannot even prove even exists that stated them. In fact, It was another character altogether. This is now a dead subject. You had your sniveling little chance. You blew it as always because you do not know what the f--k you are squawking about, You have no idea what your religion is about, What it entails, You do not know your bible, You do not know your unproven god. Granted, I don't either, But I keep learning and progressing. But I sure know them 10, 000x better than you ever will.
Posted by mk6520 3 days ago
mk6520
"Awe milky not stated by your unproven storybook character fabled god of pint only from your bible in and possible way of stating "I the lord thy god grants man free will" Please do try harder before you take your next dump in your silver lying playback, K? "
Hey Backy!
Just saying, In English there can be different ways to say the same thing. For example, You can say "A Mountain is the highest landform" and "the Mountain is so tall". They both mean the same thing, That the Mountain is huge.
Hope this helps ;)
Posted by backwardseden 4 days ago
backwardseden
Awe milky not stated by your unproven storybook character fabled god of pint only from your bible in and possible way of stating "I the lord thy god grants man free will" Please do try harder before you take your next dump in your silver lying playback, K?
Posted by backwardseden 4 days ago
backwardseden
2. Is unwilling to show up which is not the fault of anybody and that is the fault of this unproven god that nobody can prove exists and the entire blame would go towards this god should it exist or 3. This supposed unproven storybook character fabled god of print only does not exist.

"Ironically you accused God of destroying women and children and that makes him immoral"
I gave you the exact verses which is true btw ACCORDING TO YOUR IDIOT BIBLE. Now do you believe what your trashy heap completely bankrupt and immoral bible says or not? Y____? N____? If it's a Y____, You go back and you look at them teeny booper. I'm not going to repeat myself to a truly uneducated infidel moron like you who goes into absolute lockdown denial and cannot under any circumstance admit making a single mistake, Not ever, Not for any reason, And thinks you know everything that there is to know in the universe. If it's a N____ then you do not in any possible way believe in your unproven storybook character fabled god OF PRINT ONLY from your bible in which case NOBODY has ever been able to prove its existence. SO WHICH IS IT TEENY BOPPER? Sheesh is your kind so ridiculously pathetic.

"Thats the Power of satan, Not God. "
I see. So this satan fellow, Also in which case you cannot prove exists, And get this teeny bopper, ACCORDING TO YOU, Has---power---to---do---whatever---it---wants---OVER---YOUR---UNPROVEN---GOD.
Oh and btw, In YOUR stupid idiotic bible your unproven god murdered 2, 821, 364 for absolutely no reason at all which included babies, Children and pregnant women (yeah that's abortions teeny bopper in which case ONCE AGAIN you as as a supposed christian are supposed to be so against but if you are this means you go against your unproven god and this would mean you are a true supermassive contradictory hypocrite) and in your bible, Your unproven satan murdered 10. DO THE MATH. Nah.
Your unproven god is an infection. You have no idea what your religion is about. Ta ta.
Posted by backwardseden 4 days ago
backwardseden
It is entirely YOUR god's problem to correct these errors. Not man's because how can man possibly know which is the correct version? The thing is, In no possible way can man possibly know as there's literally millions of versions over time with copies upon copies upon translations upon translations upon dead languages upon dead languages that die off with absolutely no possible way to trace any of them back to the original because NO ORIGINAL EXISTS in the first place. Even if one did, Who is going to interpret it so that every single person on earth understands it? Oh I get it, You are. Right, You fricken teeny bopper nobody that pretends he knows everything that there is to know about everything but in reality know 0 about his religion, Unproven god, And bible but only pretends that he does and because he doesn't he has to invent excuses for it? AND if your unproven god were in ay possible way true, It---would---not--use---text in the first place. It would simply POOF, BANG wah lah talk to everybody as an example and ignore the fatal fallacies of text/ the written word. Got it?

Free will. I know your unproven character storybook fabled god of print only from your idiot bible does---not---exist until it proves itself to the universe. So until then, I have free will. Even if it was to prove it's existence to the entire world, I still would not believe in it so therefore I would still have free will. You as unedumacated and unintelligent as you are and believe in your unproven god, You have no free will as your unproven god chokes it all away accordance with your unproven god as is proven in your idiot bible that you knowingly and ignorantly follow.

"Because Evil Men Rape Kids Does not prove God exists. "
Never said it does. But to you it does. OR 1. God can"t show up which would mean that it is not omnipotent and or it is not perfect which would mean that it is not a god
Posted by backwardseden 4 days ago
backwardseden
@IsaiahxWood - Wow did you step into a puddle of poo that straddles your mouth that has been taped shut from the back of it so you cannot state anything that makes a true word of good.
ESV Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. "

NASB " If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, Both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. "

KJV "If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. "

NLT ""If a man practices homosexuality, Having sex with another man as with a woman, Both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, For they are guilty of a capital offense. "
The word "homosexuality was not added into your idiot bible until 1947. Now who has the right to in any way to change your bible ESPECIALLY with what your leading characters have to say? What if these interpreters get it wrong in which case they MUST because nobody is perfect, Thus they get the messages wrong. Oh and btw, Updates MUST take place as language changes over time. Now no idiot true genuine god would not know of this and would simply not use text. PE-IR-OD. This is just one of at least reasons. D-U-H.

WYC "If a man sleepeth with a man, By lechery of a woman, Ever either hath wrought unleaveful thing, Die they by death; their blood be on them. (If a man sleepeth with a man, Like in fleshly coupling with a woman, They both have done an unlawful thing, And they both shall be put to death; their blood be on them. )"
Really? Yep. This is an actual translation.

Really? A supposed "god" would actually put up with this crap and not know of any of these mistranslations well beforehand and sceddadle text altogether?
Posted by mk6520 4 days ago
mk6520
"You think you have free will under your unproven god's oppression? Really? Show me in your babbling baby brained bumbling booby prized big black hole bible where it says something to the effect of "I the lord thy god grants man free will" and I will give you every single thing I have and become homeless. Use the KJV, NIV, Or NLT that no true genuine god would ever use text/ the written word as a form of communication with man. "
Galatians 5:13
For you were called to freedom, Brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, But through love serve one another.
John 8:36 ESV
So if the Son sets you free, You will be free indeed.
Ok, So what do you have backy? :D
Posted by IsaiahxWood 4 days ago
IsaiahxWood
OMG this is so funny, I literally read @backwardswedens post to some friends and they literally threw up LOL ohh it was awesome.

Btw @backwardsweden do you have the free will to say what your saying, Or is God controlling your words?

Also I use ESV and NASB because those versions are the most accurate at the moment with more manuscripts backing it up plus more updated. . Heads up.

Because Evil Men Rape Kids Does not prove God exists. Ironically you accused God of destroying women and children and that makes him immoral(not true btw). But Those civilizations Did EXACTLY what you said dads do. Rape, Incest, Murder, Slaughter, And horrible things. Thats the Power of satan, Not God. But for some reason you got the two mixed up.

I would read more but the FILTH and DESCUSTING LANGUAGE BACKWARDSWEDEN spews is just so bad I can hardly read 2 sentences with out being descusted. For now on buddy you are banned Bye Bye :)
Posted by Theweakeredge 5 days ago
Theweakeredge
Yes Debateart. Com is indeed much more updated and much more moderated
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