The Instigator
Layfieldj2
Pro (for)
The Contender
KGlife
Con (against)

The Pay Gap is not factually based and is not based upon people with the same job and same results

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 482 times Debate No: 116192
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (0)

 

Layfieldj2

Pro

The pay gap is in no way based upon the pay of men and women for even the same job. It's is based on average earnings for every man and woman. The reason why women don't have to same average earnings as men is because they are more women stay at home with their kids, actually have kids and need leave in order to do that, are more likely to take safer jobs, would rather have flexibility over larger income, work less overtime, take more vacations and also do less physically demanding work. This is not a dig on women, women and men are wired differently and because of this men are more likely to have material goals while women are more likely to have goals of happiness, etc, and for a lot of people happiness is being at home with kids not having to worry about deadlines or requirements.
KGlife

Con

My goal on this website is to attempt to reach out to people who have been drawn in by the anti feminist, anti-left 'Skeptic' brigade, by responding to some of their more common claims. Pro's claim 'The Pay Gap only exists due to biology, no sexism!' claim is probably one that irks me in particular.

Some people have a weird, strawman version of feminists in their heads, because their views of feminism have been shaped by seeing silly comments made on Tumblr, and sickening compilations. Can Pro, and everyone else reading this, please realize and acknowledge that all of feminism is not represented by this, and actually academic feminist theory is a real, legitimate thing that exists?

You may wonder, why am I typing this? Well, this tends to be the main argument used by people like pro. 'Look how stupid these feminists are, look how clueless they are.' The belief that there is enough evidence to prove that the pay gap is 100% biological is non-existent, and I'll try to explain why. Again, I'm not saying that there aren't any biological factors, because there are. I'm just saying that there is no definitive proof that the gap is completely due to biology. I ask Pro to refrain from explaining to me how men and women differ biologically, because no one is denying that.

Please instead prove that the gap is due to biology rather than environmental factors.

I'm not going to make any arguments in this first section, but I will layout what my argument will be over this debate:

There is no definite proof that the gender pay gap only exists due to biology

Many studies have suggested environmental factors which discourage women from going into certain fields

In certain fields, actual sexism probably exists

If Pro chooses to continue the debate, then I will aim to complete my argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Layfieldj2

Pro

I think the whole pay gap is based on the general number of average earnings but when never we every see these specific cases of unequal pay. I have never seen anyone show me an actual case where someone was payed unequally for doing the same job at the same level. If businesses really wanted to pay women less, wouldn't they hire more women? It would make sense from a financial perspective to pay someone less for the same job. If you have a specific case of this, it can be reported to the police as a violation of the Equal Pay Act signed into law by John F. Kennedy. And for saying that anti-left movements are shown the media in a spotlight. Then why are liberal protests the only thing every shown on the news. The left gets the benefit of the doubt from the media because whenever somebody criticized Obama, someone would play the racist card and now the sexist card with Hillary. Bring some legitimate examples of unequal pay by sex and then I could possibly switch sides. (P.S. better not be the top results on Google)
KGlife

Con

I agree that it is unlikely that women are being paid less than men at similar jobs on a large scale, but I'm disappointed that Pro has remained unwilling to acknowledge any cultural or environmental factors. Additionally, they have also went on a strange rant regarding bias towards the left.

'And for saying that anti-left movements are shown the media in a spotlight. Then why are liberal protests the only thing every shown on the news. The left gets the benefit of the doubt from the media because whenever somebody criticized Obama, someone would play the racist card and now the sexist card with Hillary'

These are all unsourced anecdotes, that I cannot really respond to. Please show some evidence that liberal protests get all the attention, and that Obama and Hillary cannot be criticized, without being called racist or sexist. This was a pointless diversion that Pro made.

Before I can extend on my argument, I need to prove that environmental and social factors influence job types.

Let's take a look at this graph: https://imgur.com...

Some of the highest paying jobs, currently, are in STEM fields; STEM being short for science, technology, engineering, and mathematics for those who are unaware. This graph shows the percentage of women in medical school, law school, physical sciences and computer science.

The percentage of women in 3 of these fields has been significantly increasing, but one has decreased.

The percentage of women in computer science fields peaked in 1984 at around 37%, but has been declining ever since. Today, the percentage of women in computer science fields is under 20%. This directly correlates with the arrival of home computers around this period, which were marketed almost exclusively to males. These are some of the higher paying jobs, and women are provably excluded from them. Because of direct sexism? No. Because of an unnecessary cultural push? Probably.

Now, this is where things get icky and screamy. If your eyes begin to twitch at the mention of 'Feminism' then this is the time to stop reading my argument. Now, Feminist Theory would argue that there is evidence of a pay gap due to there being more males in computer science than females. We can disprove that this is entirely due to biology, because there were more women in these fields in the 1980's. Thus, one might argue that we ought to push more women to be in these fields, in the same way they have been pushed out: through our culture. This push could be beneficial to everyone.

More women in fields means a larger selection pool, which leads to more quality work and innovation. This is why the pay gap exists. No, not the 77 cents on the dollar, that is obviously inaccurate. But a pay disparity does exist due to the ratio of men to women in stem fields, and I think I have made a valid argument disproving Pro's biological claims. If women are disadvantaged in these fields because of environmental factors, then the pay gap exists, but can also be undone.

I don't think the pay gap will ever entirely go away. Even if we lived in a vacuum excluded from environmental factors, a smaller gap would likely still exist. But, to think that the reason that women take up under 20% of computer science fields is entirely biological is unfounded.

Thus, I conclude, a wage gap does exist, largely due to environmental factors, and ought to be made as small as possible.

Source:
https://www.nsf.gov...

https://gseis.ucla.edu...
https://www.npr.org...
Debate Round No. 2
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