The Instigator
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet
Pro (for)
Tied
6 Points
The Contender
RickeyD
Con (against)
Tied
6 Points

The Religious Condition

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 227 times Debate No: 123564
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

WhoPutYouOnThePlanet

Pro

I think most religous people are in a feedback loop of denialism i call the religious condition where their specific doctrin implys that simply having doubt is bad which translates into a mind that preseives skeptisism as bad and doubting their core beleifs as bad which creates a mental feedback loop over time that results in a natural resistance to facts and denial of anything aposing their doctrin.

I want to know what thiests think of this.

RickeyD

Con

Define religion.
Debate Round No. 1
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet

Pro

Define yourself
RickeyD

Con

1) You request a challenge to a subject that you refuse to define. This is a contradiction. What is religion/theism - subjective? Yes!

2) You argue from the position of the non-religious and do so in error. Atheism is a religion as per Kaufan v. McCaughtry (2005). Atheism and Evolution are both religions, Sects, Denominations of Secular Humanism i. E. Naturalism whose god is creation-nature. Atheism is a religion that denies the existence of God yet cannot prove their core position via empiricism as per their lesser god, Dawkins (Science & Christian Belief vol. 7, 1994 p. 47). Evolution is a religion of humanism-naturalism manifesting great faith in Time+Chance+Matter = Life from non-life + Mutation + adaptation = specie variation of which NO empirical evidence exists but is a "belief" based only on "faith. "

3) You direct your challenge to "Theists" but don't define Theism. Why? The Holy Spirit who authored the Scriptures identifies both Satan and the demons as theists and they tremble at the Name of God (James 2:19). For all intents and purposes, The Atheist and Evolutionist are "Theists" as they worship the creation, Their flesh, Their aberrant lust, Their knowledge of pseudo-science & nature as their gods in the secularist denominations of the religion of Naturalism-Secular Humanism.

4) You have failed to define religion but in accordance w/the secular definition of religion, Christianity is erroneously brought under the all-encompassing definition of religion but in reality, Jesus Christ hated religion and died to free mankind from the death of religion by establishing righteousness via "grace through faith" as opposed to religion's righteousness by works-deeds-philanthropy. Theologically speaking, Christianity is NOT a religion but a personal relationship with God the Father by grace through faith in the Son, Jesus Christ-Yeshua, Alone. . . Apart from works, Deeds, Human effort.

5) Seeing that religion and theism span both paganism and religious beliefs and Christianity, We see that every man and woman is "religious" in one capacity or another thus we must conclude that each of us has a void in our lives that seeks to worship and find meaning, Purpose, Destiny, Beyond our mundane existence constrained by Time.

6) Christianity is the only coherent worldview with corresponding truth that defines origin-meaning-morality-destiny and directly answers with logical consistency, Empirical adequacy, Experiential relevance. There is ONE God and ONE Mediator for sin, Jesus Christ-Yesuha (John 14:6).

7) We see that religion does narrowly focus all men on their own interpretation of a god; the differentiation being, What or who is the True and Living God? Who has provided a written Covenant to mankind? Who has entered Time as God and walked among us? Who has provided empirical evidence for His reality/validity as God by the supernatural creation displayed before us? These questions are foundational to finding God, Not religion-theism.
Debate Round No. 2
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet

Pro

I apologzie for my vaugidity, I thought you were a troll account.

Unchforchentetly the rest of what you wrote just proves my point, You called athieism and evolution and religion when they are not, Not playing football is not a sport, Not beleving the earth is flat is not a religion, And evolutionary theory is a peer reviewed model of observational reality supported by over 150 years of empherical evidence and testing, Ontop of this creationist like behavior you have stated that christianity is not a religion which is a common cop out answer thiests use to try and seperate themselves from other competeting religions for no sufficent reason other then their own personal bias.

In your argument you have shown great levels of denialism and blaint levels of ignorane reguarding scientific methodolgy which further sements my point that you are affected by the religious condition which will make you defend you dogma no matter what is said or done. So far i think this has been really educational on the failure of the theiestic position, Or in your case christianity because you know if your going to beleive in things without evidence, We might as well throw in some preferable specifics right?
RickeyD

Con

1) You're forgiven. Thank you.

2) Atheism and Evolution are both secular sects of the religion of Naturalism/Secular Humanism and this truism is beyond debate. The courts & Secular Humanism substantiate both atheism/evolution as sects possessing faith in that which cannot be seen, Tested, Repeated, Evaluated. You cannot disprove God's validity but you "believe" with "faith, " contrary to evidence, That He does not exist. This is done because you love your aberrant lust, Sin, More than Truth.

3) The Scriptures do NOT suggest the Earth is flat but tends toward spherical. Almost every passage cited in favor of the flat-Earth position occurs in a poetic context, Metaphorical not literal. The Hebrew Bible has no official "position" on the shape of the Earth, Whether round or flat.

4) The only form of "evolution" that is valid via empiricism is micro-evolution i. E. Speciation; that is, Changes WITHIN A KIND of animal. Macroevolution, The foundation for Darwinism, Is not supportable via the geological record or actual "science. " Macroevolution is an observation of the present and inferences about the past void any form of empiricism/the scientific method.

5) Christianity, In the purist form of theological truth, Is NOT a religion but a relationship based on grace (unmerited favor) through faith (believing-trusting) in Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of sin.

6) The scientific method is only applicable to operational science not historical science; Darwinian Evolutionary Theory is NOT supported by empiricism-that which is observable, Testable, Repeatable i. E. The scientific method. Evolution is based solely upon faith in that which cannot be substantiated by the scientific method. Evolution is a religion requiring much greater "faith" than Christianity.

7) My faith in Jesus Christ is not nor has it ever been contingent upon religious dogma or the absence of evidence. My faith as a Christian is NOT blind faith but based first upon what I can observe in the supernatural Universe that inundates my senses both day/night (Romans 1:18-32). My faith is predicated and based upon a diligent study of the written word of God, The Scriptures, That I have found to be irrefutable - the inspired word of the living God. My faith is based upon the Incarnation and works of Jesus Christ who can be no other than God, Our Creator. I cannot therefore deny what I have found to be Truth subsequent to a diligent study and having walked-out my faith for 27-years and finding that God is True and the He does not lie (Numbers 23:19).

In conclusion

It is your religion of atheism/evolution that has conformed you to the will of your spiritual father, Satan, To live a life of secularism void the truth of our Creator, Jesus Christ. You have submitted to the lies of evolution, The progenitor of atheism, And for this reason you are seeking death in your sin and death in Hell for having rejected God's pardon from death in sin via faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
Debate Round No. 3
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet

Pro

So evolution and atheism are a religion because they are part of something else that you think is a religion but really is not a religion. Seems like a legit argument and totally not just creationist nonsense.

The rest of your argument is basicly a peudoscientific rant full of debunked young earth creationist arguments from answers in genesis that have been debunked for decades yet somehow like flat earth claims just keep getting repeated. Basicly all creationist claims can be summed up as illusionary truth fallacys.

The rest of your argument after that is just you siting bibal verses while demonstrating bias and making empty assertions while appealing to what you have to prove.

But if all your here to do is go off topic and argue agaist things we can and already have proven to be verifiably accurate for centurys, Please do, It will only provide further evidence of the denialism your position holds.
RickeyD

Con

1) Atheism claims: 1. God or gods do not exist, 2. There is no life after death, 3. This material world is all that exists. Most atheists reject any idea that there is a world beyond this one or beings beyond the natural.

There are Evolutionists who admit that the idea of particles-to-people evolution does not meet the criteria of a scientific theory. There are no evolutionary transitions that have ever been observed, Either during human history or in the fossil record of the past; and the universal law of entropy seems to make it impossible on any significant scale.

The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, And New Age evolutionists may place it in the context of some form of pantheism, But they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), The purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, Including man.

2) Nothing has been debunked concerning creation scientists countering the lies of evolutionists who fabricate data that simply does not exist. Evolutionists that construct fossil records out of fragments that coincide with their naturalistic worldview and biased agenda. Macroevolution is the greatest lie ever told by science.

3) My point is this, You serve a religion of Naturalism via its secular denominations/sects/religions of atheism and evolution. I serve the God of Christianity, Jesus Christ-Yeshua. We serve our own gods because they give us meaning and purpose in this life constrained by Time. Your god, Satan, Directs you to live your life in secularism and moral relativism and you fight against anything/anyone that would counter your worldview; you rebut arguments that incite the stress of cognitive dissonance. I serve the Living God, Jesus Christ because I believe Jesus is God who entered Time 2019-years ago and died to provide me a pardon from death in sin and death in Hell.

You believe your religion that espouses moral relativism because your religion justifies and rationalizes your sin. I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord because Jesus is the only Way, The only Truth, The only Life that provides forgiveness of sin and life to mankind in Eternity.

So then, Your reality and internalization of certain facts and truths are the resultant of YOUR religion and my reality and internalization of certain facts and truths are the resultant of MY belief; therefore, Your initial argument stating that only theists are affected by beliefs/religion is not true; every man and woman serves a religion that directs their worldview and their walk in this life constrained by Time. The question is, Which path leads to life and which one leads to death? You believe there is no path and I believe there is but ONE path, Jesus Christ.
Debate Round No. 4
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet

Pro

So i see we have gone from being in denial to being dishonest, Not really supprising as the two arnt exactly mutually exclusive. .

Atheists do not make any of these claims you have asserted, It is the religious right who have made these positive claims that god/gods exist, That there is a afterlife, There is more beyond the material world without while ignoreing their burdan of proof. The only thing athiests point out is that there is insufficent evidence and justification for these claims, We would be and are open to these possibillitys, However the evidence and burdan of proof has not been met, You can't say someone is making a claim by not beleiving another claim, Thats ridicious. Don't tell me what the majority of athiests think because its quite clear you have not a single clue what athiests even say in the first place :/

The rest is once again empty assertions like evolution is a religion, Faked data, Nothing has been debunked, You know classic creationist nonsense with no empherical vindication whatsoever and a clear demonstration of denialism.

You clearly don't understand who athiests even are, You clearly don't understand scientific methodolgy, You clearly have a unjustified and unevidenced vendeda against what goes against your pre-determined beleifs and you don't have a problem being dishonest or ignorant about it if it promotes your dogma further.

Once again you have demonstrated ignorance and denial with both wrong/dishonest and unvindicated consparicy like assertions to what goes agaist your pre determined beleifs

Next time, Maybe try to know something accruate about athiests, Science etc, Because maybe then you will actually have a chance at argueing against it, Just kidding, I have about as much hope of you being honest and insightful as i have of toxic feminists realizing the patriarcy does not exist.

Thanks for turing a potentially good debate into another denialist dishonest crap fest of religious extremeism though.



RickeyD

Con

1) You"re being dishonest by denying the truism that you serve a religion called Naturalism-Secular Humanism via your alliance with Atheism-Evolution.

2) You are being dishonest in your failure to acknowledge that religions are not solely attributable to what you call "theists" in the "God" category but that every man and woman serves a religion of some sort and that every man and woman worships a god. My God is Jesus Christ, Your god " in Naturalism/Atheism - is the naturalistic world " your flesh " your sin-Satan.

Your initial argument that the religious " theists "preseives [perceives] skepticism [skepticism] as bad and doubting their core beleifs [beliefs] as bad which creates a mental feedback loop over time that results in a natural resistance to facts and denial of anything aposing [opposing] their doctrin [doctrine]" is fallacious and void substance because all of humanity serves a religion and all of humanity serves a personal god whether it"s the Christian God, Jesus Christ; the Pantheistic God " Nature; the Atheistic god " Satan, The flesh, Lust, Narcissism, We all serve a religion and a god.

Our personal god(s) and our core beliefs are naturally resistant to rebuttal as we seek to shield ourselves from the pain of cognitive dissonance. Your argument is prejudicial toward a segment of society that you do not understand and your argument is fallacious in that your argument is attributable to all of mankind not just those with whom you disagree concerning your worldview and your rejection of God.

For these reasons your argument is void substance and truth and validity"you too serve a god in your atheism and his name is Satan and your icon is your aberrant will, Lust, Flesh, Desires " even if unaware.

It is written"

"As for you, You were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, The spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. " " Ephesians 2:1-2

"Now therefore fear the LORD and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, And serve the LORD. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, Choose this day whom you will serve, Whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, Or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, We will serve the LORD. " Joshua 24:14-15
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by WhoPutYouOnThePlanet 1 week ago
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet
@Topsy6

So your supposed argument against me is that you baselessly cheery pick what you choose to believe while still believing in things without sufficient reasoning and that somehow makes you not in denial about refusing to question your beliefs. . .

It doesn't matter if you think you fully believe something or not because at end of it all your still promoting dogmatic claims with no sufficient vindication while being in denial about questioning it, So instead of looking at the facts and accepting reality for what we can prove it to be, You instead make excuses to separate yourself from other believers by cheery picking doctrine, Evoking metaphor and vaugeness for goal post shifting via interpretation, And making empty assertions which both prove and accomplish nothing.

Your argument was poor and only demonstrated yet another example of how the denial of the theistic position stretches into a long scale with different levels of denialism.
Posted by Topsy6 1 week ago
Topsy6
I can argue against the point made by WhoPutYouOnThePlanet by the simple fact that I am religious in as much as I believe in God and yet I also deny certain things about religion. I deny for example that religious doctrine should be taken entirely literally and that it should be followed entirely as well. My belief in God is not and will not be altered just because I don't fully believe, Follow or support the doctrines that other religious people follow. That is my argument
Posted by missmedic 1 week ago
missmedic
Why does religion embrace belief and shun knowledge? Knowledge is for leaders and belief is for followers.
Posted by missmedic 1 week ago
missmedic
If it were possible to reason with a religious person there would be no religious people. It's not rational to believe in something with logically contradictory characteristics. It's not rational to believe in something defined one way when the allegedly same thing is defined in a contradictory manner by someone else down the street (why not join them instead? ). The most rational and sensible position is to simply withhold belief and remain an atheist. The more you know the less you believe.
Posted by WhoPutYouOnThePlanet 1 week ago
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet
This is so dumb as well, The court case he sited was not about atheism being a religion, It was about the religious right disregarding amendment rights for atheists which is clear discrimination and bias, But you know if you let the religious state the facts, There will be no facts stated.
Posted by backwardseden 1 week ago
backwardseden
@WhoPutYouOnThePlanet - Yeah you got that one right of "denialism". Where would his religion be without the good ole pancake oceanside view of the typical slaughterhouse creationist who cannot ever as we both know get one stinking paper together and submit it before any scientific committee of merit and get it passed?
Posted by WhoPutYouOnThePlanet 1 week ago
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet
Kinda like alternative medicine, You know what you call alternative medicine that actually works? Medicine. .
Posted by missmedic 1 week ago
missmedic
The thing that uniquely defines religion, The thing that sets it apart from every other ideology or hypothesis or social network, Is the belief in unverifiable supernatural entities. Of course it has other elements -- community, Charity, Philosophy, Inspiration for art, Etc. But those things exist in the secular world, Too. They're not specific to religion. The thing that uniquely defines religion is belief in supernatural entities. Without that belief, It's not religion.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 6 days ago
dsjpk5
WhoPutYouOnThePlanetRickeyDTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Countering backwards poor vote. Source vote not supported.
Vote Placed by backwardseden 1 week ago
backwardseden
WhoPutYouOnThePlanetRickeyDTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con "absence of evidence. My faith" is what faith is. "Its called faith because its not knowledge." Christopher Hitchens. Con "a diligent study of the written word of God" in which no true god would ever use "word". "you to the will of your spiritual father, Satan," Name-calling goes against Con. Not only is this insulting to all who believe and KNOW differently from Con and can prove it, but evolution is proven to be true, has passed millions of scientific communities tests, demonstrations and assertions from around the world, whereas Con's god has passed none, and doesn't demand a god or a creationist to prove it wrong. Pro makes a correct observation of "denialism" because what does Con have other than a belief from a book which is a religion in which he denies?

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