The Instigator
CainEnable
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
WrickItRalph
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Seventh day Sabbath (Saturday)

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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 495 times Debate No: 120463
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

CainEnable

Pro

It's been a while since I've been on this website so I'm a bit out of the loop in terms of the general outline of how these debates go about. I will present my case in the second round after the con's initial arguments by refuting them and providing scriptural evidence of the necessity of keeping God's holy seventh day as it being a required "Holy convocation" Leviticus 23:3 and that God is no respecter of persons whether Jew or Gentile. Galatians 3:29 also points out that there is a spiritual element to being a Child of Abraham or Israel. If we follow God's commandments to the best of our ability we are most certainly a spiritual Jew. Romans 2:29 explains this. Exodus 31:13-16 states that the Sabbath is a never ending covenant meant to be observed to recognize God as our creator and that in seven days he created the Earth and all things that exist in our physical universe. The Sabbath was never changed in scripture and it cannot be found anywhere in the Bible because that is a creation of man. Specifically during the Roman Catholic church era. I look forward to a great debate!
WrickItRalph

Con

I'll keep it simple. I will concede the debate if you can do the following:

Prove the existence of god so that it is demonstrable and anyone can verify it without taking your word for it.

Prove that god wrote The Bible

Prove that god did not lie about anything in the bible

After that, I will have no reason to acknowledge the sabbath, Because if god doesn't exist, Then I have no reason to care.
I will also accept any evidence that Saturday itself has some special scientific quality that we can measure if it is treated as the sabbath. But I highly doubt you have such evidence.

Your floor
Debate Round No. 1
CainEnable

Pro

This debate was meant for Christians. . . It would be virtually impossible for me to try and convince you that there is a God. That topic of debate has been around for centuries by people far more intelligent than me, So what makes you think I could provide a case that would be suitable enough for you to change your entire belief structure. Hence why I honed in on the topic of just the Sabbath alone.
WrickItRalph

Con

That's nice. But shouldn't you be asking yourself why you can't debate it with me?

Don't you care about what's true?

If you religion was true, Wouldn't you be able to debate it with anyone like you could with gravity or evolution?

I'm not trying to suck the air out of your argument, But if you really want to find out if the sabbath is good or not, You have to eventually ask yourself the god question. That's the only way to belief it in a way that's honest. If you want to sit and stroke egos with sky daddy worshippers, Then maybe you're missing the point of debating. It's to get new ideas and find the truth of the matter. Not to build up more lies.
Debate Round No. 2
CainEnable

Pro

I feel like you're missing the point of what I was saying. I personally believe in Christ and the Almighty Father. Whether you do or not isn't my focus. If it were I would have made the title about whether they exist or not. My walk in my faith is just that. It's Faith. There are plenty of ways one can prove God scientifically by studying the understanding of consciousness, Morality, Complexity of organic structures and how they react within their environment but being honest I'm not a scientist and I have no clue what im talking about when we start getting into detailed scientific questions because I'm not a science major. Sure, You can find that unacceptable as an answer but that's just fine because it's not the topic of debate. If you really are struggling with the idea of a divine creator I recommend studying prophecy and it's fulfillment throughout the ages.
WrickItRalph

Con

I think you're missing the point actually. I actually care if what I debate is true or not. When one enters a debate, They cannot just impose limitations in how the opponent presents evidence. This is a recipe for believing untrue things, Which explains why you're a Christian in the first place.

I'm going to juxtapose two of your quotes to show that you should seriously reconsider how you apply your logic.
"It would be virtually impossible for me to try and convince you that there is a God. "
"There are plenty of ways one can prove God scientifically by studying the understanding of consciousness"

These two statements that you wrote don't match up at all. If you had good scientific evidence, Then you wouldn't have a hard time at all convincing me that god exist. You think there is plenty of evidence for God, But if there was then we wouldn't be having this conversation because people would just accept it the way they do other scientific facts. People might say they doubt gravity, But those people aren't willing to jump off a building and prove it because it's a fact. When people take god as seriously as gravity, Then you should believe in him. Otherwise, You're wasting what little time you have left on this earth hoping and praying for an afterlife. Live for your life, Not your afterlife. Because only one of those lives are guaranteed.

I would also like to add that you made no disclaimers about what kind of debate you wanted to had, So you should have been ready to face and atheist and at least have some answers for them. You could have just told me you don't have proof and argued from there, But you didn't.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
@CainEnable. It's not about conferring our entire belief system. It's about positing points of our beliefs against people to put them under scrutiny. One does not have to state their entire worldview every time they address a belief. I get why you would think that you had to explain it all at once because Christianity provides a huge chunk of your world view, So it seems vast to you. But you can divide this into bite size chunks for digestion. My belief system stems from demonstrable truth. So my world view is very easy to pick apart and examine in small pieces, So the idea of explaining small points is not difficult for me.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@WrickItRalph

I was just saying that "people would accept it as scientific fact" is not a proper argument for the claim that Christianity has no evidence.
Posted by CainEnable 3 years ago
CainEnable
Speedrace was correct, I doubt you would be willing to conform your entire system of beliefs based on 3 rounds of online debating. There literally isn't enough space to try and make a case for a divine creator. There are thousands and thousands of topics which would need to be addressed and at the end of the day, You will believe what you want to believe.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
@Speedrace, The reason you think I made an ad populum argument was because the statement I made was expedient and granted certain basic logical conclusions. You think the "then we wouldn't be talking about this" is the evidence for my claim, But it's not. It's the effect or the evidence being present. That's a huge difference.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@WrickItRalph

You said it, So it therefore must be your logic.

Whether Christianity has evidence or not is not my point.

YOU said that if Christianity had evidence people would accept it as a scientific fact, But because they don't then it must therefore not have evidence. I said the same thing about atheism to show you that that statement was fallacious and incorrect. It has nothing to do with whether Christianity has proof or not.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
That's not my logic. I don't make my decisions based on who believes what. When I say that Christianity lacks evidence, I'm not saying it's because people don't believe it. It's be cause nobody can demonstrate the existence of god. I don't need people for that. As for the evidence against god, I can demonstrate using logic that god, Under every definition that's ever been posited, Cannot be. I did a "does god exist" debate that is in voting if you want to see the refutation if you want to see it. I'm not repeating it cause it's long but I covered every conceivable god scenario to show how it can be debunked. I stripped it down to the point that any definition of god would have to basically be something trivial like time and energy, Which I think any Christian would agree is not a good definition for god. But if you have a definition that can be coherent in reality, I'd love to hear and then refute it.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@WrickItRalph

You said the following:

"You think there is plenty of evidence for God, But if there was then we wouldn't be having this conversation because people would just accept it the way they do other scientific facts. "

So you are saying that because people don't simply accept Christianity, It must therefore lack evidence.

However, People do not simply accept atheism either, So by your logic, IT must therefore lack evidence.

That was YOUR logic, Which itself was fallacious because you are saying that Christianity is wrong because the same amount of believers that gravity or other sciency things have. You brought argumentum ad populum into it. You say "It doesn't matter how many people believe anything" but that is EXACTLY what your argument is saying.

The statistics I gave showed that more people agree with Christianity than atheism. I used argumentum ad populum ON PURPOSE, Because to invalidate my claim you must therefore invalidate your own, Which is also based on argumentum ad populum.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
yeeeah, No, Lol. @Speecrace. I get that you're trying to turn my logic on me to show it's vacuous. But you're doing it wrong. The compared scenarios are not analogous. There IS evidence against a god, And there IS NOT evidence for one. The highlighted words make these statements not analogous.

It doesn't matter how many people believe anything and I don't know why you think that's part of my logic, Because it's not. That's an ad populum argument and it's quite useless. You might as well just say "God, Because me and my friends said so"
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@WrickItRalph

"It would be virtually impossible for me to try and convince you that there is a God. "
"There are plenty of ways one can prove God scientifically by studying the understanding of consciousness. These two statements that you wrote don't match up at all. If you had good scientific evidence, Then you wouldn't have a hard time at all convincing me that god exist. "

He says it would be virtually impossible for HIM to try and convince YOU that God exists. This just means that either he does not feel comfortable enough with the evidence OR that he doesn't think that you would change your mind. The latter is more likely.

"You think there is plenty of evidence for God, But if there was then we wouldn't be having this conversation because people would just accept it the way they do other scientific facts. "

You think that there is plenty of evidence against God, But if there was then we wouldn't be having this conversation because people would accept it the way they do other scientific facts.

That is your own logic. Yet about 33% of the world is Christian while only about 20% is atheistic, And the other 47% is affiliated with some type of religion. So your own argument logic leans in favor of Christianity.
Posted by CainEnable 3 years ago
CainEnable
Haha, Yes! I was actually involved in a bible study and I figured that a debate would be interesting and also help me increase my own knowledge a bit.
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