The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Wizofoz
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Spirit of Christ or Antichrist? Which do YOU possess?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/2/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 848 times Debate No: 112247
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
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FollowerofChrist1955

Pro


I recently took a respite from preaching to relax a bit and clear my mind of the tasks that lie ahead, the struggles and battles of the apostates, so I took up a debate having nothing to do with God nor religious beliefs.



To my amazement it was extremely insightful. I of course reasoned that it would be an open and shut case, given the factual evidence available, and that the opponent had literally NO factual data with which to defend his stance? Was I in for a shock!



It has been established that the MASSES, couldn't care less of truth and reality. Rather they willingly Chose to Close their minds even in the face of incontrovertible proof to remain in a state of total delusion. Hard Scientific evidence be hanged! I was amused at first but gradually became aware of the implications of this phenomena, after which I was left stunned!



The masses Chose delusion over reality? I was reminded of a parody where there were two lines. One booth stated "Comforting Lies" The other " Unpleasant Truth"



https://serendipitygreece.com......



The matter was on Gun Control- with the recent tragedies of School shootings and Gun Deaths. The World is ready to yank your right to own a TANK/Uzi's/AK-47/Bazooka's from you, over fictional disasters, and the possessors of said accoutrement's are wetting themselves.



Fictional Disasters because the statistical Data demonstrates that NO Gun Problem exists in the United States! Course as I discovered the masses aren't interested in facts they want to remain in their deluded and gullible worlds and are prepared to squash anything or anyone who points out their lack of sensibilities on truth! But is that really so surprising?



In any case I came to realize that The Apostates are also doing the very same thing? Denying all evidence of their Antichrist behaviors, Pharisaic professing a Faith they never actually demonstrate. Though in plain view before God and Man?



43,000 Denominations? Really ... yeah THAT'S BIBLICAL right?


https://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com......



Epidemic of BIBLICAL ILLITERACY GLOBALLY- Yeah THAT'S BIBLICAL TO right?


https://albertmohler.com......


http://www.christianitytoday.com......



Both of these indicate the Antichrist spirit don't they? What other evidence need be given?



43,000 Christian organizations created their own beliefs from the scriptures? Those who will obey this scripture, while others Refuse to obey those scriptures! In the end one can be saved within them because the SAVING comes from God as a GIFT therefore They are not required to EARN IT! (and certainly DON'T)



But they HAVE accepted Christ Sacrifice on the Cross before they promptly abandoned ship! Living their beliefs their way! SEE the Antichrist spirit in your actions? NO?



Hmm, how about this word- Bond servant? Can YOU honestly look Christ in the Face and declare servitude? You follow your OWN belief that's not servitude is it?



Jesus said it HIMSELF, and YOU are NOT doing it! And you KNOW your not!



Luke 9:23


23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily,[a] and follow Me.



Mark 8:34


34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, “Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.



Matthew 16:24


24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.


That YOU FOLLOW the Denominations created by MAN- proves you guilty!


That you REFUSE to Die to Self proclaims you guilty as charged and NO DISCIPLE of Christ!


That you wouldn't and couldn't lead anyone through the Scriptures because you don't know any, and do not Read it- Is proof against you, isn't it?


But what I think or say? Doesn't count for a THING, as I am like you ... unfit in my OWN ways. Still hear it from Jesus for YOURSELF!


Luke 14:27


27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.


1 Corinthians 7:22


For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.


Romans 6:22


But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life.



1 Peter 2:16


Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.


Hebrews 12:6


5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, or lose heart when He rebukes you. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises everyone He receives as a son.” 7Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?…



IF after this you continue in your own way ... hear the warning of Hosea;


Hosea 4:6


6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.



any thoughts on this?


Wizofoz

Con

None of it is true.
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

I am at a loss where to begin? That you begin with a known lie, is confusing!

That there CANNOT exists greater than 2 denominations is an absolute. 1 is Judaism, identified by Christ Himself, the other is The Way created by Christ Himself. That there are anywhere from 33,000 to 43,000 Christian organizations on the books teaching different worship practices ... is well shall we say, undeniable.

Your denial while certainly passionate, is an obvious lie at least from the standpoint of TRUTH of Denominational numbers existing in today's Society.

Perhaps you mean that the existence of Multiple unsanctioned Biblical denominations is not a direct violation of the denial of SELF as stated by Christ Himself in Luke 9:23, Mark 8:34, Matthew 16:24 already stated above.

Is it then your assertion that anyone who CREATES their OWN BELIEF in contravention of scripture sanction is in compliance with the above scriptures and IS in fact Denying the self ... despite the fact that 33-43,000 of them have come up with DIFFERENT worship methods?

That ALL 33-43,000 are directly violating those scriptures can not be questioned. as Additional scriptures bear this out:
Ephesians 4:22-24 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,

Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Philippians 3:8
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,

and ...Colossians 3:5, John 12:24, Romans 6:11, Romans 12:1-2, 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, Romans 8:12-13, Romans 6:11-14, John 3:30 an numerous others.

or is it The knowledge requirement to KNOW SCRIPTURES you think is false and not true?
Joshua 1:8 "This book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth; but you shall meditate therein day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall have good success."

Nehemiah 8:3 "And he read from it facing the square before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand. And the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law."

Romans 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Psalm 119:11 "I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you."

Job 23:12 "I have not departed from the commandment of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food."

2 Timothy 2:15 Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth.

Ephesians 1:13
And in Him you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, having heard and believed the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Indeed how can you believe what you DO NOT KNOW? How can you Preach the Gospel as required by Christ; here:
Mark 16:15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Can this be accomplished when the Bible is all but UNKNOWN to the Believer? Is This in keeping with 2 Timothy 2:15? Clearly not, thus you are in error here as well.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

or is it some other thing you question?

I'm afraid your reply was without substance, lacking in clarity or understanding which does appear to be the usual manner of those of Denominations Today. However Your example is well taken. Perhaps you could make more of an attempt to be more specific on your declaration of foul?

Understand I am not mocking ... My speech is directed speech ... Bold in delivery as one taught of God without apology, and quick to point out indiscretions among the brethren as required of God whom is my King and Judge! I cannot respond to a statement of "none of it is true" as a basis of retort!
Please expand your answer or your question as it RELATES to the Holy Bible as opinions are not relevant to this discussion, because they are void of truth.

You see we as Believers have forgotten the true meaning of Bond servant, Sovereignty .

supreme power or authority.- IS NOT something questioned by the servant ... yet that is what all denominations have done, isn't it? They claim God is The Lord, then question His word, refuse to die to self, continue on with their OWN opinions of Life, love, humanity, Government ... very much implying THEY ARE NO ONES SERVANT NOR SLAVE!

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

where IS THE NEW may I ask? cause it certainly is in hiding? Reacting on your own, thoughts about life, government, Life, giving NO thought of God in your day to day Lives? Listening to Men interpreting Gods Word even though SCRIPTURE declares that NO prophecy of the scriptures IS BY ANY PROPHETS personal interpretation! (2 Peter 1:20). Where in the world do you get the impression that Theologians and Scholars have been granted this authority? Yet you say nothing?

Well we do know that Christ's is MUCH closer than He was when we first believed. If your smart you'll check out my Debate on the 3 Levels of Believers and what EACH will receive or in this case NOT RECEIVE!

you DO NOT what to be the Believer of 1 Corinthians 3:15 but that's up to you!
Wizofoz

Con

They all disagree.

Yours is but one interpretation.

But that is beside the point.

You are making the assumption that Christ is somehow significant, and that the concept of an anti-Christ is valid.

A book with no external verification in no way establishes either fact, so your entire argument is an appeal to the authority of the bible without establishing the bible HAS any authority.

When you can establish with evidence that we should care what the bible thinks, and this somehow validates the concept of an anti-Christ, then we can continue.
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

I see, your unsaved and going to Hell. I wondered why you didn't appear to know anything at all. At least I now understand.
Obviously your incapabile of basic understanding of the english language as well. Without ability to comprehend the spoken word, in view of your own distorted and unskilled thoughts. Lack of intelligence and common sense!

allow me to elaborate?

2 Peter 1:20 specifically states
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

thus your statement- "Yours is but one interpretation." obviously stems from ignorance, as Personal interpretations of ANY KIND are expressly forbidden! Hence the accusation of inability to comprehend the spoken word.

Secondly you didn't bother to LOOK UP any of the scriptures thereby speaking in willful stupidity as an intellect would have LOOKED up the scriptures if they didn't know them?

Third and most importantly you have demonstrated in action the condition of STUPID as defined in the dictionary-( having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.) certainly not the insult, that would be rude!

Of major imporatance is that I KNOW that Christ is significant by reason of PERSONAL research and study from 1980 to the present, while you? Haven't even started looking yet, nor appear inclined to. No matter.

Imagine if your small intellect can ... you have not only witnessed but been priviy to the information that a God exists, that Christ is the savior of the World and all those who do not know God will spend eternity in Hell a place described as a place where the unsaved go to BURN IN FLAMES for eternity. This of course HAS BEEN Common Knowledge to the Masses since antiquity.

Not ONLY have you not PERSONALLY BOTHERED TO LOOK OR INVESTIGATE its truth! You show no desire to, even though YOU PERSONAL KNOW of the CONSEQUENCES you WILL FACE at your death!

When your Mom told you not to touch the Stove cause it's HOT, surely you were "NOT" so stupid as to touch it were you? Yet having been TOLD of HELLS EXISTENCE by BELIEVERS who are FORBIDDEN TO LIE .... your just gonna WAIT to find out WHEN YOU GET THERE, with the FULL knowledge that at that time it will be to LATE to make a different choice?

Hmm and this is what YOU call intelligent is it? By whose measure ... a 3 year old?

Allow me to enlighten your addled Brain a bit: God ... THE God says- Mark 3:15

15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

underline the part where it places ANY responsibility on the Believers to GIVE YOU EVIDENCE OR PROOF of any kind!

I was not given proof until I went to MEET God, only THEN did I GET MY PROOF! And that proof changed my entire LIFE IMMEDIATELY and FOREVER!

So if I and 2.2 Billion souls had to GO TO God to get our proof, and YOU refuse to GO at all .... see where I'm going with this?

That very MUCH indicates that YOU are the whoever does not believe will be condemned.… part of that scripture RIGHT? So by all means , live long and prosper, may the Force and all that jazz ... because the SECOND you take your LAST BREATH and have that LAST Heartbeat-You ENTER ETERNITY IN HELLS FLAMES immediately and unavoidably.

Wizofoz

Con

'I see, your unsaved and going to Hell. I wondered why you didn't appear to know anything at all. At least I now understand.
Obviously your incapabile of basic understanding of the english language as well. Without ability to comprehend the spoken word, in view of your own distorted and unskilled thoughts. Lack of intelligence and common sense!'

Threats and insults noted.

"thus your statement- "Yours is but one interpretation." obviously stems from ignorance, as Personal interpretations of ANY KIND are expressly forbidden! Hence the accusation of inability to comprehend the spoken word.

Many people interpret the bible differently. You are simply claiming your interpretation is the literal reading, and do so with no more evidence or justification than a legion of other self-important people, who just KNOW they have it right.

"Secondly you didn't bother to LOOK UP any of the scriptures thereby speaking in willful stupidity as an intellect would have LOOKED up the scriptures if they didn't know them"

True, because we have yet to establish scripture is worthy of study- you need to do something to establish it as factual, or else we can do nothing to establish whether there is such THING as an anti-Christ.

"Third and most importantly you have demonstrated in action the condition of STUPID as defined in the dictionary-( having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.) certainly not the insult, that would be rude!
"

The propensity of those who claim to love and emulate Jesus to be awful, cruel, rude and insulting people has ceased to be surprising to me- it seems like a deep seated insecurity any time there beliefs are challenged

"Of major imporatance is that I KNOW that Christ is significant by reason of PERSONAL research and study from 1980 to the present, while you? Haven't even started looking yet, nor appear inclined to"

Anecdotal evidence no more compelling than any other theist- people study Mohamad as intently and,g uess what? come up with conclusions contradictory to yours.

Oh, and it's "Importance" Mr calls others stupid.....

"Imagine if your small intellect can ... you have not only witnessed but been priviy to the information that a God exists, that Christ is the savior of the World and all those who do not know God will spend eternity in Hell a place described as a place where the unsaved go to BURN IN FLAMES for eternity. This of course HAS BEEN Common Knowledge to the Masses since antiquity."

No, more of the Human Race has followed other than your religion for the vast majority of it's history. Christians still make up less than 1/3 of humanity.

You have been privy to the teachings of the Prophet Mohamad (PBUH)- I assume you will be converting to Islam?

"Not ONLY have you not PERSONALLY BOTHERED TO LOOK OR INVESTIGATE its truth! You show no desire to, even though YOU PERSONAL KNOW of the CONSEQUENCES you WILL FACE at your death"

Truth is more important to me than anything. Demonstrate what you believe is true and I will be exceptionally interested.

"When your Mom told you not to touch the Stove cause it's HOT, surely you were "NOT" so stupid as to touch it were you? Yet having been TOLD of HELLS EXISTENCE by BELIEVERS who are FORBIDDEN TO LIE .... your just gonna WAIT to find out WHEN YOU GET THERE, with the FULL knowledge that at that time it will be to LATE to make a different choice?
"

You've been told to pray to Allah five times a day, fast during Ramadan and commit to the Haj.

You're not going to ignore those instructions, needed to save your soul are you?

"Hmm and this is what YOU call intelligent is it? By whose measure ... a 3 year old?
"

That isn't to say supposed purveyors of truth continuingly being childishly insulting doesn't wear thin after a while....

"Allow me to enlighten your addled Brain a bit: God ... THE God says- Mark 3:15

15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
underline the part where it places ANY responsibility on the Believers to GIVE YOU EVIDENCE OR PROOF of any kind!"

Then why should I believe it?

"I was not given proof until I went to MEET God, only THEN did I GET MY PROOF! And that proof changed my entire LIFE IMMEDIATELY and FOREVER!"

Then forgive me until I have the pleasure myself- after all, to do otherwise would be to misuse the intelligence you believe he gave me.

"So if I and 2.2 Billion souls had to GO TO God to get our proof, and YOU refuse to GO at all .... see where I'm going with this?
"

Well, I'm standing here with y6.8 billion who say otherwise.

"That very MUCH indicates that YOU are the whoever does not believe will be condemned." part of that scripture RIGHT? So by all means , live long and prosper, may the Force and all that jazz ... because the SECOND you take your LAST BREATH and have that LAST Heartbeat-You ENTER ETERNITY IN HELLS FLAMES immediately and unavoidably. "

Allah Akbar.
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
FollowerofChrist1955,

If you won't at least give my writings a chance, there is nothing I can do for you. It's been nice chatting. Goodbye.
Posted by Wizofoz 3 years ago
Wizofoz
As you breath your last, remember you were a tool.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Wizofoz;
Then I leave you to your fate. on the day you you look into the abyss? You will remember me and our words together most clearly!
Posted by Wizofoz 3 years ago
Wizofoz
Actually, God came to me in a vision and told me he had a message for YOU- he said unto me, "Tell that fool ChristFollower to stop being such a jerk, calling people liars and trying to scare them with stories of hell. I didn't actually make a hell, but will invent one especially for him if he doesn't stop being such a tool."

So, yeah, just trying to help you out, eternal salvation wise....
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Wizofoz;
Because only Christians care that you be WARNED of your fate! Look around you? Not even those who CLAIM to love you, are trying to save your soul? Yet you sing their praises.

When you are in Hell? Consider the thought that not only could you have SAVED yourself, by seeking God? You could have saved those you CLAIM to love. They to, will be in Hell? How can you not see this? Or are you as them? In possession of a love that is useless, pointless and berft of compassion, content to stand by and watch as each soul you claim to have loved dies while you had the knowledge that THEY WERE DOOMED TO HELL, and did nothing about it?

Yet it is I .... a stranger, who has gone out of his way to warn you, in the hopes you will at least look into it, yourself? But .... I am the ar$ehole ... eh?
Posted by Wizofoz 3 years ago
Wizofoz
Why does being a Christian lead so many to be such ar$eholes.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Judaism;
AFRAID is all you will be.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 3 years ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Wizofoz;
So now you reveal your true nature. One as a LIAR.
Harsh you think? TRUTH I say. Because TRUTH is neither for nor against, it simply IS. You are truthful or you are a liar. Liar is proven in your words, in your demonstrated behavior.

Only one who has READ/Sought the Living God may KNOW. You have not personally read neither have you personally Sought God. Thus your statement- which is full of contradictions-we know are fiction - about a fictitious afterlife .... LIES, all of it!

You see liar, I know because I sought, of the two of us only I speak the truth, while you? Liar ... whose horrors BEGIN at life's end. For you DEATH shall bring with it horrors unspeakable. As it is written- Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Revelation 14:10 he too will drink the wine of God"s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.""

How does it feel to KNOW for certain ... of the Horrors that await you? To KNOW that eternal suffering without rest or END is in store for you to begin at Death and to continue for all time?

Yet you MOCK the only one who could have saved you ... God. The one whose very HANDS you shall be delivered to! You are a creature to be pitied as you await your reward!
Posted by Wizofoz 3 years ago
Wizofoz
And why should I care what an old book, which is full of contradictions and stories we know aqre fiction, says about a fictitious afterlife?
Posted by judaism 3 years ago
judaism
FollowerofChrist1955,

I'm afraid you don't understand the context behind Isaiah 55:8-9.

See my link it, it explains it in full. Also, when your done, see a second link at the end, detailing what we Jews believe about how one can get right with G-d (a lot of Scripture is quoted!). Also, when you're done with that, see my last link on who goes to heaven in Jewish/Christian theology.

Here is it:

https://docs.google.com...

P.S., again, I always write my own stuff, nothing is from someone else's words. Enjoy.
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