The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
crossed
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

The bible is false because jesus is false thus jesus was not the messiah

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crossed
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,253 times Debate No: 120320
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (100)
Votes (1)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Since the headline is true it means that christianity is an absolute failure and false. This is according to the text of failure of the bible itself because jesus is a failure unto himself and to those who believe in him and to the mistakes that he made thus proving his imperfection. Since this so-called mythical jesus is imperfect, Which will be proven with utter ease in this debate, That is if you can read and thus interpret your bible properly, In which case most christians can"t as they instead make excuses of all kinds which never works btw, It means that jesus according to the text of bible in which god would not use as a source of communication, The worst form of communication possible, Cannot be ruled nor thought of as a god.

This is taken from an Atheist Republic article thus proving that jesus was not perfect. And since jesus was NOT perfect by any means, He cannot possibly in anybody"s mind who can think rationally be considered as god. This is irrefutable.
Matthew 7: 15-20 "Beware of false prophets, Which come to you in sheep's clothing, But inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, Or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, Neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, And cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. "
The saying is plain as day: a good tree would not produce bad fruits, Only good fruits. I'm not making this up, That's what Matthew states unequivocally. But how can this be possible? How can even the best and most righteous person never produce bad fruits? They can't, Because human nature is such that we will make mistakes, Or worse, Do something bad deliberately. But Jesus, Who is said to be the infallible almighty God of the Bible, Says that it IS possible to produce ONLY good fruit. Read the passage again (v. 18) "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit" and likewise " a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. "

And yet Jesus said that evil must happen, But woe unto him through which it is done. Evil will happen, It's inevitable, So how come Jesus also said that a good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit, When we all know that this is not true. All of us have produced good fruit and bad fruit, Therefore I can only come to the conclusion that Jesus was not infallible, Not God, But a fanatical fundamentalist who thought he was appointed of God to teach the people of Israel. He was wrong, Just all all the Christian churches are wrong, Especially that church which claims infallibility, Which is considered a heresy by the other Christian churches.

Here's something else to ponder (that leaves you out Steve): Jesus promised he would return within one generation, The generation of his immediate followers. He was dead wrong (pun intended) and is therefore a false prophet, Condemned by his very own words that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit.
Yep and since jesus was a false prophet and imperfect as clearly proved, He---was---not---a---god. So christianity is false and the NT is also false.

More proof in which nothing can be said against and or countered"
John 5: 16-18 "16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, And sought to slay him, Because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, And I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, Because he not only had broken the sabbath, But said also that God was his Father, Making himself equal with God. "

Many problems with those verses. 1. 17 So according to jesus, His father, Namely god works on the sabbath. 2. There"s a 0% chance that god is going to work on the sabbath, NOT ever. So either 3. Jesus flat out lied thus proving that he is false, The entire NT is false and christianity is false or 4. These verses are misprints in which is the most likely of probabilities in which is supposed to be a perfect book. 5. The entire OT is false which there"s a 0% chance of that if you believe in god as once again there"s no chance god would ---ever--- work on the sabbath. 6. 18 Notice how jesus himself appoints himself to be equal with god? 7. Where did jesus get permission from god to do this? That answer is nowhere. So this jesus character remains a lowly drab. 8. Wow. What an egotist. 9. No need to worry. The entire bible screams of god"s superior ego god complex. That"s what the bible is entirely about and nothing else. 10. There"s no proof whatsoever that god and jesus has ---ever--- existed.

Ab-so-lu-te-ly the jews had every right to think in their little beady heads to execute the so-called starchy potato christian messiah unproved jesus who wasn"t a messiah at all.

Pay attention closely:
*Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. "
*Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, The flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. "
*2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, And is profitable for doctrine, For reproof, For correction, For instruction in righteousness:"
*Psalm 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, Converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, Making wise the simple. "
*Psalm 119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. "
* James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, And cometh down from the Father of lights, With whom is no variableness, Neither shadow of turning. "
In other words god"s word is PERFECT. It cannot be changed by anyone or anything. Christ, Being the lowly goop that he supposedly according to the babbling bible was in which like god who in which nobody can even prove has ever existed could---not---change---god"s---laws---because---god"s---word---is---PERFECT---and---cannot---be---changed. Mmmm K?

We'll get into A LOT more as to why christ is crap in later RD's and is not the messiah.

RULES:
Prove that the christian mythical jesus was the messiah that christians desperately want to cling to and believe in. Chapters and verses only please will you be allowed to use from the KJV, NIV or NLT translations.

dsjpk5 and timmyjames are disqualified from voting in the voting process.
crossed

Con

alright i do not know if you can make rules like you can only use the bible as a source in the bottom of post but i would like to use other sources. If i only post verses how would i prove that there true without other sources. But for now i will use only bible points that do not need sourcing from other sources. There is many bible points that i would like to use but can not because of the king Jame bible quotes rules. Plus i did not agree to those terms when i agreed to debate this topic.
i would like the ok to be able to use my other bible points for the sake of my argument.

my arguement

god predicting the earth floated in space back in the day when people believed the earth was flat or suspended on string and my personal favorite siting on the back of a turtle

Job 26:7
He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing

https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=Job 26%3A7

what you ate mattered 1000s of years ago

in the bible the kid who brother sold to Egypt the female who lied and got him imprisoned wanted him because he ate right back in the day when chemicals were not in food

with Joseph in charge, He did not concern himself with anything except the food he ate. Now Joseph was well-built and handsome,
7 and after a while his master"s wife took notice of Joseph and said, "Come to bed with me! "

in genesis in 39
https://www. Biblestudytools. Com/genesis/

debater said
This is taken from an Atheist Republic article thus proving that jesus was not perfect. And since jesus was NOT perfect by any means, He cannot possibly in anybody"s mind who can think rationally be considered as god. This is irrefutable.
Matthew 7: 15-20 "Beware of false prophets, Which come to you in sheep's clothing, But inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, Or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, Neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, And cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. "
The saying is plain as day: a good tree would not produce bad fruits, Only good fruits. I'm not making this up, That's what Matthew states unequivocally. But how can this be possible? How can even the best and most righteous person never produce bad fruits? They can't, Because human nature is such that we will make mistakes, Or worse, Do something bad deliberately. But Jesus, Who is said to be the infallible almighty God of the Bible, Says that it IS possible to produce ONLY good fruit. Read the passage again (v. 18) "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit" and likewise " a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. "

the good tree or the christian can only produce goods fruits because all there bad fruits or sin been washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ

Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, Who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, Purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Colossians 2:14
By canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, Nailing it to the cross.

https://www. Openbible. Info/topics/jesus_died_on_the_cross_for_our_sins

jesus said he was coming soon not to the first generation

debater said
Here's something else to ponder (that leaves you out Steve): Jesus promised he would return within one generation, The generation of his immediate followers

firstly he says he is coming soon

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, "Surely sI am coming soon. " Amen. TCome, Lord Jesus!
https://biblia. Com/bible/esv/Rev%2022. 20

how long is soon 1 day is like a thousand years to him

2 Peter 3:8 New International Version (NIV)

8 But do not forget this one thing, Dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, And a thousand years are like a day.
https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=2+Peter+3%3A8

and secondly he says when he returns it would be as the days of noah so unless there generations get so wicked in ten years to the point were god would kill everyone on the earth. He is clearly speaking of a generation to come. Because obviously when Jesus walk the earth it was not like the days of noah.

4 - As it was in the days of Noah, So it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, People were eating and drinking, Marrying and giving in marriage, Up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. (Matthew 24:37-39)

http://ipost. Christianpost. Com/post/15-bible-verses-that-jesus-speaks-about-his-second-coming

debater said
"More proof in which nothing can be said against and or countered"
John 5: 16-18 "16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, And sought to slay him, Because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, And I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, Because he not only had broken the sabbath, But said also that God was his Father, Making himself equal with God. "

firstly jesus broke the sabath and was doing his ministry work he explains his actions by saying that god has been working on the redemption of man ever since mans fall

john 5-17
In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, And I too am working. "

https://biblehub. Com/john/5-17. Htm

he is god he can rest if he wants he can works when he want but he does not need to rest nor work. He can do anything he wants plus right after they call him out for breaking the sabbath he explains himself
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

OK well DDO is not accepting my argument. So I shall try to post it in the comments section.
crossed

Con

i was original going to say if you want to post your argument in the comments you would have to let me use other sources. Because you sorta ask me if you could but it seems you have posted your argument in the comment so.

if you want me to argue the he said he would come in one generation thing i would need to use google translate the original Greek writings and other sources. Let me source my arguments
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

Wow. Only you know what you meant in you jabberings and yammerings. I posted in the comments section because DDO would not allow me to post in the arguments section. Its a simple 2 + 2 = 4 equation. That's only if you understand simpleton math? Do you? And I figured out the why to this equation and that is that DDO would not let me post one stinking verse from YOUR bible. In other words, I 100% stuck to the rules I set up with. I expect you to do the same. . . That is if you are willing to continue with this debate.
crossed

Con

firstly Jesus did not say that he would not return within one generation

Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, Which shall not taste of death, Till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. "

they are talking about his resurrection not his return

it says which shall not taste death till they. The till they is very important it means that they are probably going to die afterwards but they would see Jesus rise from the dead in there lifetime.

the new international version says they shall not die before they see Jesus rise from dead and coming in his kingdom

New International Version
"Truly I tell you, Some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. "

better way to word it is some of you would see me die and me coming back from the dead before you die

Jesus is talking about his resurrection when he talking about coming in his kingdom we know this because while he was nailed to the cross 6 hours in they offered him some wine Jesus said i will not drink wine until the kingdom comes

Luke 22:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. "

https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=Luke+22%3A18&version=KJV

3 days later after he has died and come back from the dead he ask the person who offered him some wine if he can have some wine since he has fulfilled the comming of my kingdom. Because he know rules his kingdom his kingdom has arrived

John 19:28-30 New International Version (NIV)

28 Later, Knowing that everything had now been finished, And so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty. " 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, So they soaked a sponge in it, Put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, And lifted it to Jesus" lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished. " With that, He bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

plus in your they shall not taste death before the son of man commoth in his kingdom he is talking about his death

the full paragraph of your quote

21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, The chief priests and the teachers of the law, And that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord! " he said. "This shall never happen to you! "
23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, But merely human concerns. "
24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save their life f will lose it, But whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, Yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father"s glory with his angels, And then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28"Truly I tell you, Some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. "

https://biblehub. Com/niv/matthew/16. Htm

one of the thing jesus sayed would happen in the end times is turmoil nations for such turmoil to happen especially the entire world it would take many years. He is clearly talking about a generation to come
Luke 21:25-36
here will be signs in the sun, The moon, And the stars, And on the earth distress among nations confused by the roaring of the sea and the waves. 26 People will faint from fear and foreboding of what is coming upon the world, For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see "the Son of Man coming in a cloud" with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to take place, Stand up and raise your heads, Because your redemption is drawing near. "
https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=Luke+21%3A25-31&version=NIV

jesus came down to earth to save everyone do you believe that after he saved everyone that he would then say. When i return to my people in ten years aka his disciples generation you guys would be worst off then i found you and would only love yourself and not others and completely disregard my cammandments. He is clearly speaking of a generation to come.
2 Timothy 3:1-2

For men will be lovers of self, Lovers of money, Boastful, Arrogant, Revilers, Disobedient to parents, Ungrateful, Unholy,

when Jesus sayed good trees he can only produce good fruit he means that a christian can only have good works because all his bad deeds have been washed away Jesus blood. In your newest post you make it sound like that you do not even believe that a good tree is a Jesus believer and this literally talking about tree

people talked funny back then. Do you believe there literally eating Jesus

John 6:53-56

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, You have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, And I in him.

and your 2000 thousand years are 2 days to god

ok jesus said that one of the signs that the end times is approaching is that the isreal would become a nation again so Jesus is saying that isreal would fall and then rise back up and you saying that that would happen in one generation

Leviticus 26:32-33 "I will lay waste the land, So that your enemies who live there will be appalled. I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, And your cities will lie in ruins. " NIV
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

First off, We"re not going to jump around from translation to translation. That"s not going to happen. This is one of the main reasons why your god would never use text, Namely your bible, As a source of communication, The worst form of communication possible so people like you can get it wrong with copies upon copies upon copies upon translations upon translations upon dead languages upon dead languages that die off with no possible way to trace it back to the original, Because no original exists in the first place, So you have no idea, None, If you are interpreting correctly or not. Now let"s begin and we"ll use the KJV.

"firstly Jesus did not say that he would not return within one generation"

Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, Which shall not taste of death, Till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. "

"They" Who is they? See that"s the problem with you. You have no idea, None how to interpret. This is your supposed messiah squawking down unto his sheep. "are talking about his resurrection not his return" WRONG. Now that"s strike 1. We"re going to go by the 3 strike rule. 3 strikes and you are out. Let"s look at that verse up and close, Shall we?
"There-be-some-standing-here. Which-shall-not-taste-of-death. " That"s not talking about a resurrection at all not is it poor boy sandb**ch? That"s talking about the people standing right there in from of this sneezerag christ that he is preaching to "which-shall-not-taste-of-death. " Guess what? That genital congregation all died and your tinkertoy christ ---NEVER--- returned. Its one of the biggest reasons why atheists are atheists. Its because your bible preaches false nocturnes and it flat out lies. But you pretend christians, Because there is no such a thing as being a christian, You turn your joke of a bible and messiah into whatever you want to suit your wants, Needs and desires and you simply cannot read, Just simply read.

Oh and oh yeah with all the different versions/ translations you use, Why not use the Swahili version/ translation? Oh but wait. You don"t understand its language. And you think that the people who translated what christ supposedly said from 2, 000 years ago did into new and bright and shiny version do? So much so that they change what your HOLY CHRIST ACTUALLY SAID so that you can make up some gibberish so you feel good about drum roll please" yourself. Ah yes indeed.

Let"s move on.

Oh but wait let"s hold things here for a moment"
"Jesus is talking about his resurrection when he talking about coming in his kingdom we know this because while he was nailed to the cross 6 hours in they offered him" Really? 6 hours. Wow. Where do you get this from? Nice invented flat out excuse. Strike 2.

Luke 22:18 English Standard Version (ESV) Nope KJV.

18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. "
KJV 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, Until the kingdom of God shall come. "
Wow. Notice the HUGE monumental difference? See why your god would ---never--- use text as a form of communication and not even dream about it? If you don"t then you have some ---SERIOUS--- problems with your first grade comprehension skills. So I shall spell it out for you. 1. Who has the right to change what your lard, Sorry lord or any character in your bible says? 2. Notice the changes from what your lard, Sorry lords says? ESV "from now on" and its null and void in the KJV version.
Now let"s have some toxic fun with the NLT version 18 For I will not drink wine again until the Kingdom of God has come. " Completely gone is the opening dialogue.
And you actually think your storybook bible is worth more than a penny with mistranslations after mistranslations after misinterpretations after misinterpretations? How naive are you? How much denial do you have to go into before reality sets in? Let"s continue. . .

John 19:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
KJV After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, That the scripture might be fulfilled, Saith, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, And put it upon hyssop, And put it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, And gave up the ghost.
Here"s something for yah that yah DON"T GET which is another super massive fatal flaw in your thinking of your nonsensical bible and religion"If jesus went back to heaven, How is that a sacrifice? You and your religion sacrificed NO-TH-IN-G. You can"t even prove that your messiah even lived. And regardless he most certainly was not the messiah as 100% proven in RD as your god"s word is "perfect. But apparently, You do not think so.

OK now here"s 10 videos that prove that prove that your christ was not the messiah. Each video is completely different from one another. So you have a lot of watching to do. They are all what is known as "evidence". If you ignore them, Then you ignore evidence and you would be the typical christian that ignores evidence especially when these professionals know one helluva lot better than you. If you invent a stupid mundane excuse that you do not have the time to watch them or some other excuse like that, Then I will know that you are lying and you will be treating me like I am stupid when in fact I am one helluva lot smarter than you will ---ever--- be on this subject. Ready?
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=6lqC8fvIspY - jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra) #1
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=KXAGpCTiGlQ - The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens) #2
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=apS_679ru50 - Did jesus Exist? #3
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=9AzwJ9d4i1g - Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier) #4
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=x-slAgzJmdU - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus? #5
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=AJMd5UiTeys - Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel #6 ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years? ") Um duh. Do you REALLY THINK jesus existed?
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=lDpEeHD54Mo&t=1397s - The Gospel According to Carrier #7 (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, But scrap all the mythology)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=O5AordEPtok - Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David #8
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=hmKTUOzXRkI&t=188s - Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, Or how not to debate an Atheist! #9 (skip to the 7:00 mark! ) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=NAqEmYJcXX8 - What did jesus do for you? #10

Btw, John 19:28-30 is about the ascension of christ which as proved is completely laughable, It is not about his return which didn"t happen within the lifetimes of those he preached to saying that he would return within their lifetimes as you clearly misinterpreted the verses, And yeah, Your entire bible, And yeah, I"m being nice.

Let"s move on. OK I can"t move on. The full paragraph of what quote? I used several that you didn't respond to. Especially from RD1 showing that god's word is perfect for quite a few verses. So it could not be changed by a lowly dingy dustmite christ, In which it was, And naturally you ignored it. Not a surprise.
crossed

Con

alright you say that i can only use kjb and some of its translations KJV, NIV or NLT. But now your complaining about me using other translations and you claim there is no original bible which is false but i can not prove it because i can only use the bible according to your rules. Then you break your only use bible rules. By spamming me with 10 YouTube videos that would take hours to watch. Are these rules that i did not agree to are they only for me. Or can i post my argument that uses other sources. Or are you held to a different standard. Did you know that lawyers use this tactic were they force you to answer either yes or no. This tactic is used when lets say there was a case were a man is raping you he then try to kill you in self defense you kill him. The lawyer trying to prosecute you for murder might say did you kill this man yes or no. You try to explain that it was in self defense but he has none of it and keeps repeating yes or no. They get you to say yes then they throw the book at you even though it was in self defense. After this is done i would like a rematch but this time you can use any sources that you want or any argument you want

debater said
This is one of the main reasons why your god would never use text, Namely your bible, As a source of communication, The worst form of communication possible so people like you can get it wrong with copies upon copies upon copies upon translations upon translations upon dead languages upon dead languages that die off with no possible way to trace it back to the original,

firstly Greek and Hebrew dead languages and many of scrolls have been dug up but i an not source that because of your rule that i only i am suppose to follow.

debater said
"They" Who is they? See that"s the problem with you

they are his disciples here the entire scene and they are talking about Jesus resurrections the quote says that they would die after Jesus resurrection that is why they said till they or before or until depending on the translation. After the taste of death. And i have already shown that son of the man coming in his kingdom means us resurrection

scene of which you speak of
1From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, The chief priests and the teachers of the law, And that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord! " he said. "This shall never happen to you! "
23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, But merely human concerns. "
24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save their life f will lose it, But whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, Yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father"s glory with his angels, And then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28"Truly I tell you, Some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. "

the son of man coming in his kingdom means that Jesus when to heaven or his kingdom when Jesus on the cross he said he would not drink wine till the kingdom of god has arrived 3 days later he says his work is finished then drinks like there is no tomorrow

18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. "

https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=Luke+22%3A18&version=KJV

28 Later, Knowing that everything had now been finished, And so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty. " 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, So they soaked a sponge in it, Put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, And lifted it to Jesus" lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished. " With that, He bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

he is saying by him dieing the kingdom of god came

debater said
18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. "
KJV 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, Until the kingdom of God shall come. "
Wow. Notice the HUGE monumental difference? See why your god would ---never--- use text as a form of communication and not even dream about it? If you don"t then you have some ---SERIOUS--- problems with your first grade comprehension skills. So I shall spell it out for you. 1. Who has the right to change what your lard, Sorry lord or any character in your bible says

firstly the phrase means the same thing they just changed the wording secondly they do not have the right to change the text

english Standard Version
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

this quote means 2 things do not change the bible and secondly someone is or did change the bible if it was not possible for someone to change the bible coff coff mormons and catholics then there no need for this warning
https://biblehub. Com/revelation/22-18. Htm

re"s something for yah that yah DON"T GET which is another super massive fatal flaw in your thinking of your nonsensical bible and religion"If jesus went back to heaven, How is that a sacrifice? You and your religion sacrificed NO-TH-IN-G. You can"t even prove that your messiah even lived

i can prove that he lived but i can not because of only using bible rule. Secondly maybe shall shall not taste death means that because they were resurrected at the end that hey did not really die they just slept for 5000 years since Jesus is going to bring them back to life. And secondly Jesus still had nails stuck in his hands that must of hurt it was still a pretty gruesome experience it may have ended up ok at the end i would not want to go through it if i was told that if i got tortchered for several days but in the end i would end up alive and i would e to do it to save humanity i would consider that a sacrifice

debater said

john 19-18 is talking about his resurrection

Btw, John 19:28-30 is about the ascension of christ which as proved is completely laughable, It is not about his return which didn"t happen within the lifetimes of those he preached to saying that he would return within their lifetimes as you clearly misinterpreted the verses, And yeah, Your entire bible, And yeah, I"m being nice.

me being nice is not you with a couple hundred videos of pastors talking

john 19 28 30

John 19:28-30 King James Version (KJV)

28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, That the scripture might be fulfilled, Saith, I thirst.

29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, And put it upon hyssop, And put it to his mouth.

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, And gave up the ghost.

https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=John+19%3A28-30&version=KJV

he drinks the wine after he was raised from the dead because when he was on the crossed he said he would not drink wine up until the coming of the son of man and his kingdom

18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. "

https://www. Biblegateway. Com/passage/? Search=Luke+22%3A18&version=KJV
Debate Round No. 4
backwardseden

Pro

When you bounce around from translation to translation, You get different messages AS PROVED. How many times does that need to be explained to you? Why is it that so-called christians as a group in comparison to others simply do not have the ability to read?
Now what on earth is the a "kjb"?
"and some of its translations KJV, NIV or NLT. " Some are not. We"re on the 3 strike rule. 3 strikes and you are out!
"But now your complaining"" I"m not complaining about one god damned thing. Your bible is one big massive hemorrhage to the scrotum soda that NOBODY asked for. AL bible"s are false. Kapeesh? No god would dare be stupid enough, Not ever, Not for any reason to use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible. And you still cannot figure out better ways in how your god would chew his cud and use better ways to communicate to his cold beer stockade how to communicate? Well gee with a big dopey doy since this is the final RD, Here is is" your god could do with what he did with his so-called prophets and rather than lying to them, He would not lie to them and could talk to all of man. Gee. You know something? That"s one way. Now you think of a couple more. He"s god for christ"s sake in which you still have yet to prove even exists. So that"s a very easy strike 1.

Now as far as the 10 videos. Yeah that"s a strike 2. You could have very easily watched all of them by now rather than inventing excuses for you not to. Its not my problem that you are unwilling to accept irrefutable evidence, Especially when it is gut wrenched slammed into your face. That"s yours. You have no excuses.
I never mentioned one thing about what I could or could not use. I only mentioned what you could or could not use.
Granted, I was a piece of s--t in doing as such, But when you cannot pay any attention to your bible because my pay grade is so far above yours in this candyland, And you only pay attention to you and only you, Then your blunt instrument noodle needs some sort of stimulus.
Regardless, My hands are extremely bad and I cannot type everything out. So yeah, I take the fall and am a contradictory hypocrite.
Nevertheless, The videos do prove that your christ as not the messiah, And probably didn"t even exist. The people that put these things together do in fact know one helluva lot more about your god, Bible and religion than you ---ever--- will.

"firstly Greek and Hebrew dead languages and many of scrolls have been dug up but i an not source that because of your rule that i only i am suppose to follow. " Well see um no. That"s an invented excuse. Normally that would be strike 3, But I"ll take back strike 2, So now its strike 2. If this was true, Then these would have been produced worldwide. They haven"t. And your English is so miserable, Not that its any better than mine, But its so bad that there"s no possible way you can interpret your bible correctly. Sorry kid, I constantly learn, Get updates, Read AND WATCH different things, Most definitely go into different websites, To find out what is crap and what isn't. And I"ve been doing it for 2 1/2 x you"ve been breathing.

"they are his disciples here the entire scene and they are talking about Jesus resurrections" Oh really? That"s a good one considering the absolute fact that the NT was not even put together until at least 100 years after the death of your so-called messiah. "the quote"" What quote? Memory especially is never reliable especially after 50 some odd years after the death of your messiah that it wasn"t even jotted down onto paper. I"m sorry, That"s strike 3. We"re done.
Now since you don"t have the foggiest idea, None as to what you are squawking about, Here"s a video from Sunday from someone who thought that the bible was literally true" So call me a contradictory hypocrite yet again, Oh well.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=JQqjI78uHkE go to 121:00
crossed

Con

pro said
I never mentioned one thing about what I could or could not use. I only mentioned what you could or could not use.
Granted, I was a piece of s--t in doing as such, But when you cannot pay any attention to your bible because my pay grade is so far above yours in this candy land, And you only pay attention to you and only you, Then your blunt instrument noodle needs some sort of stimulus.

alright so you created rules for the debate i follow them you criticize me for following then you create your own rules then you say i am the only one suppose to follow them that the rules that you made that i did not agree to only apply to me. You know that bull. When you want to debate me for real come talk to me. But this time the rules will apply to both of use. And just for a rule of thumb lets not limit what can be said you can use any argument or source you want to defend your points. And spamming me with 10 video is really childish especially since it goes against your bible only rule.

con said
"they are his disciples here the entire scene and they are talking about Jesus resurrections" Oh really? That"s a good one considering the absolute fact that the NT was not even put together until at least 100 years after the death of your so-called messiah

all the translation say the same thing just with different wording

"the quote"" What quote? Memory especially is never reliable especially after 50 some odd years after the death of your messiah that it wasn"t even jotted down onto paper. I"m sorry, That"s strike 3.

Luke wrote the book of Luke etc luke new Jesus so he is an eyewitness. The bible is a bunch of books put together some were written after his death so 50 to 100 years is not that bad. You do not think someone today could right a book about ww1 and it being accurate

look i really want to debate you properly let me pls take me up on my offer

look i do not have the time to watch 11 videos plus why can you do that and i can not i could easily spam you with 11 video to if i was not bound by these rules that you created but do not follow.

pls debate me properly without rules you do not follow and that i did not agree to
Debate Round No. 5
100 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DeletedUser 3 years ago
DeletedUser
100th comment!
Posted by crossed 3 years ago
crossed
backwardsweden. I truly want to debate you again. I came here to share something that i realized that is revolutionary and i would like to share it i created this account minutes before agreeing to debate with you. So that i can share it but your rules prevented me. I would agree to debate you if those rules are gone and replaced with a only 3 video rule.
Posted by politicsfortherun 3 years ago
politicsfortherun
in the new arguments, How can you immediately attack him for quoting from different versions of the bible, Then as soon as you do it and he mentions it, You immediately attack ALL christians for not being able to read and saying using more resources gives you various responses. Explain?
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
@Speedrace

It's fine, I get your points. No worries, My message will definitely get to backwardseden very soon. It will be a sight to see. Have a good one.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@Kvng_8

I did try to talk to backwardseden, Multiple times. However, He did not take to it, And I know that me "defending myself" will fall on deaf ears.

I, However, Have had more luck with the other people. That is why I didn't tell InFakeWars to ignore them.

"I don't understand what that's supposed to mean. Looks like another excuse for backwardseden's behavior. Nevertheless. "

I was saying that I believed that I could convince those people to stop. However, I KNEW that I couldn't get backwardseden to stop.

"The same focus you gave to those other guys, Should be the same focus you give to backwardseden. If he is the meanest, Then that should mean you should be on him way more than those other people since you said "the others at least have some sense" whatever that means. "

I am not giving that to backwardseden because I know, As I said above, That it will fall on deaf ears. The only point in doing that is to get them to stop making mean comments. However, I know for a fact that backwardseden will never stop, So what's the point in trying? I have more hope for the others, Though, Which is why I tried.

"I put him back in the garbage bag like the filth he is and now he's ignoring me as usual, So that's over and done with. I was just ticked off about the whole "he does this to everyone, Ignore him" that's not how I operate. "

For one, He probably just hasn't been on since you posted your recent comment. XD

Again, I didn't mean to offend you, That was simply what I was doing and thought it would work for you too. :/

I didn't reply to continue a fight or anything, I just wanted defend myself. Have a good one.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
@Speedrace

Yet everyone wants to kiss his a**

Anyways, My main point was me just calling out your contradiction. My point isn't to tell you to take up for me to him because I can handle things on my own just fine. I put him back in the garbage bag like the filth he is and now he's ignoring me as usual, So that's over and done with. I was just ticked off about the whole "he does this to everyone, Ignore him" that's not how I operate. But we conversed back and forth and I still see your side, Somewhat.

Have a good day.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
@Speedrace

"Out of all of them, He is the least logical and meanest. "
That's all the more reason to say something to him and not brush it off.

"I was hoping that they would see reason. "
I don't understand what that's supposed to mean. Looks like another excuse for backwardseden's behavior. Nevertheless.

"I'm not stalking backwardseden and defending everyone he bullies. I simply don't have the time, And it is not my job. "
I know it isn't your job and I'm not telling you to defend the people that backwardseden bullies but it's unfair and contradicting when you take up for people in one debate, Yet in another debate you tell someone else "he does this to everyone, Ignore him" when backwardseden is a bully too just like those other people in that other page. Instead of saying something to me, Say something to backwardseden.

"Backwardseden (from what I saw) posted like one comment, The others were persistent about it, Which is why I focused on them. "
I'll briefly enlighten you to give you some backstory. Backwardseden hopped on my debate "Does God Exist" being a grumpy b-ch like he always is and talking sh-t. That's why I replied with what I did on this page. His one comment on "Is it Reasonable to Conclude Jesus Wasn't Real? " wasn't directed towards me, It was directed towards InfakeWars. I took up for myself against backwardseden just as InfakeWars did. The same focus you gave to those other guys, Should be the same focus you give to backwardseden. If he is the meanest, Then that should mean you should be on him way more than those other people since you said "the others at least have some sense" whatever that means. If we are talking about "persistency" then backwardseden takes the cake. You know why? Over 100 debates about religion and when someone opposes his opinion, He gets rude and insults them. Not only that, Tons of comments on other pages going off on other people and being rude to them and much more bullsh-t. Yet everyone wants to kiss his a
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@Kvng_8

Backwardseden is completely different. Out of all of them, He is the least logical and meanest. The others at least have some sense; he acts like he has absolutely none.

I didn't tell him to ignore them because I was hoping that they would see reason. Besides that, I am mostly worried about their debating ability, And I know that they'll at least debate properly if anything, Backwardseden will not.

I'm not stalking backwardseden and defending everyone he bullies. I simply don't have the time, And it is not my job. Plus, Backwardseden (from what I saw) posted like one comment, The others were persistent about it, Which is why I focused on them.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
@Speedrace

Interesting. How ironic in the "Is it Reasonable to Conclude Jesus Wasn't Real? " debate, You sure are standing up against the bullies yourself and you are also standing up for InfakeWars, Yet you don't do the same here? Backwardseden is no different. He's a bully. If you're going to stand up for people, Do it across all boards, And don't pick and choose. How are you going to take up for one person on one page and on a different page, You basically tell someone else "He's like that to everyone, Just ignore him". When you seen InfakeWars taking up for himself against killshot or 21stCenturyIconoclast, How come you didn't tell him to "just ignore"? Very contradicting. Another thing, Backwardseden also bullied InfakeWars as well, So what do you say about that? Are you going to tell him to ignore him?

But anyways, It's fine. I don't care anymore. Backwardseden is a pvssy anyways, He throws rocks and hides his hands, Which is why he didn't respond back after I put my comment twice.
Posted by Speedrace 3 years ago
Speedrace
@Kvng_8

People like backwardseden do what they do for attention and out of spite. He knows that he is getting under your skin from your comments, And so he continues to do it. All I was saying was what worked for me.

However, I didn't mean to offend you. :/
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedencrossedTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
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Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro admits to being a sh-t. That's poor conduct.

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