The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Ben26_91
Con (against)

The god of the bible and the bible has no place in a modern civilized society

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/14/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 571 times Debate No: 112788
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
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backwardseden

Pro

http://www.youtube.com... 10 reasons why the bible is repulsive

1. Some laws of god...

Psalm 19:7 “The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.” Since the laws of the LORD are perfect they can NEVER change. And yet they do by PEOPLE. Simple.

Isaiah 40:8 “The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”

1 Peter 1 24-25 “For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

2 Tiimothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."
Meaning you nor anyone can NEVER change god's word. Yet some did and do to serve their wants, needs and desires. Oh I forgot, that includes jesus, a false prophet, another subject entirely.

2. Now do you believe that you should die because YOUR god says so on a whim? OK so be it.

Exodus 31:15“Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.” So should you rightly die because you work on the sabbath? What if you have kids to feed? What if you are told to work on the sabbath or you will be fired? What then? Do you think that’s a just law? Why? Why not? Yeah YOUR god is stupid. And YES the bible really means what it says.

Yep. Do you REALLY want a book this vile and distasteful to be read by children and to children so they can get a yippy Kay yay wonderful messages from it?

3. Do you really want the bible used in our courts of law especially where there isn’t any law?

Deuteronomy 13 The entire chapter tells you to kill anyone who does not believe in your god. Verses 9-10 are especially keen on that. “9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.” So you come on down here and kill me because I do not believe in your god and because I am trying to take you away from your god. AND you kill anyone that does not believe in your god also. Do you think that’s a just law? Why? Why Not?

Deuteronomy 17: 2-5 basically states the same thing. “2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.”

Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.” Wow. What a great god guy huh? So do you think this is s good just law? Why? Why Not?

The bible is VERY clear and concise. christians MUST kill EVERYONE that does not believe in their god. Now follow your lord thy god’s laws and do it! But you won’t now will you? NO! That’s because you know that your lord thy god is completely wacko and absurd. So in truth you do not believe in him. And remember all the 5 verses at the top of this debate!!! Your god’s laws CAN NOT be changed. They stand tall now as back as they did when they were first written.

Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Mark 7:10 “For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:”

Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

Now should you be put to death because you curse at your parents? Why? Why Not? What if your parents rape, beat and torture you? What then? There’s no law to protect children in which should be one of the 10 commandments rather than god’s bloated ego. Children DO HAVE RIGHTS in spite of what YOUR bible says. Now should you be put to death for a completely absurd law because you curse at your parents in which YOUR bible had to repeat AT LEAST 4 times (yeah we got it) so it must be pretty important? Why? Why Not?


Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”

Leviticus 20:13“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

Yeah god hates both gays and adulterers But like nearly everything there’s never a reason why. Man is just supposed to accept nonsensical goop coming from CHANGED printed text. Wow. Proof of that its a lot of fun to compare the English translations of Leviticus 20:13 to see how off they are. So do you believe that you deserve the death penalty just because you commit adultery or because you are gay? Why? Why Not?


Yep you carry around a book that demands the killing tens of millions of people, well that is detestable and offensive.

Deuteronomy 21: 18-21“18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.” So do you think that your son should be stoned to death just because he is like nearly every---single---teen---out---there that rebels against his parents when he becomes a teen? Why? Why Not?


4. Indeed YOUR snot nosed bible is so so so sexist. Indeed women have rightly and justly evolved beyond the cages of god.
1 Corinthians 14: 34-35 “34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” WRONG.

1 Timothy 2: 11-15 “11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.” WRONG. Sorry but how racist can these verses possibly be? Women have risen far above this crap and ARE NOT mere sex toy child bearing machines as these verses would strap women down to the ground.

Leviticus 25:44-45“44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.”

5. Then there’s slavery folks. The owning of a person as personal property. In no way throughout the bible is this ever condondoned or overlooked. Not by god and certainly not by jesus. So do you think that slavery is evil and hate? Why? Why not?
Here's a few videos that proves god ensues slavery:
http://www.youtube.com...;- Is Slavery in the bible?
http://www.youtube.com...;- Matt Dillahunty Destroys a theist over Slavery
A few more verses on slavery…Exodus 21:20-21“20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.”

Titus 2:9“Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;”


6. Indeed YOUR god even hates children and infants which is the lowest of low. Sorry god, you cannot crawl out of the cellar to wipe you fanny with sandpaper to light up the septic tanks with this one…
Leviticus 26:21-22 “And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.” Rob you of your children?

Hosea 13:16 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” Isn’t that a cute one?

Leviticus 26:29 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.” Yummy cannibalism.
Here' a few video's to prove god hates children...
http://www.youtube.com...;- god hates children
http://www.youtube.com...;- Atheist Derbates get them while they are young



RULES:
Put your brain together and think of ANYTHING to counter all 6 subjects as to what has been posted above as to why the bible should be judged as a “good” book and why the christian god should be worshiped for any reason(s). And again, NO ONE can change god's word PS 19:7, IS 40:8, 1 PT: 1 24-25, 2 TM 3:16, PR 30:5. god's word stands as is.

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process
Ben26_91

Con

Thank you for the debate. Apologies for the delay in posting my first round - My original argument was much longer and I had to trim it down quite significantly due to a 10,000 character limit.

Ps 19:7


Claim: The laws of God never change, but they do by the people who change them

Correct. The law doesn’t change - The application of the law changes.
My opponent contradicted himself by asserting that they “do” change and by people.

1 Pet 1 24-25 / Is 40:8

These passages (Peter references Isaiah here) have nothing to do with the law. They are talking about a promise of salvation.

2 Tim 3:16

It says that scripture is “profitable”, not that it is conclusive in the way the law is to be presented - we don’t kill homosexuals who practice homosexuality for example, but it’s still useful because it shows what’s right and what’s wrong at the bare bone level. At this point, it’s worth noting that God need not be confined to the Bible alone as this would violate his omnipotence somewhat.

Prov 30:5

The primary reason for this verse is that the “every word” spoken of here need not be about every word spoken by God about every topic, but only every word of assurance to those who take refuge in him.

Claim: People change the Law based on their wants or desires

This is the same contradiction that was brought up earlier by my opponent.

Ex 31:15
Ex 31:13

The Sabbath is a covenant sign. A covenant is a form of contract between at least two parties - in this case, God and the Jews. Secondly, punishment is handed out according to the severity of the crime and according to whom you offend. What my opponent is doing is conflating the culture of the Israelites with the culture of today in any event.

My opponent asks “What if you have kids to feed?”

This is a terrible argument. Aside from the fact that being granted the freedom to work 6 days a week as being generous, you have the same standards in any workplace today.

He asks “What if you are told to work on the Sabbath or you will be fired?”

Irrelevant. This didn’t happen.

Claim: Deut 13 tells us to kill anyone who doesn't believe in our God and that Deu 17:2-5 "basically states the same thing"

No it doesn’t. What it says is that God was developing the relationship the Jews had with himself by invoking other gods - or false gods in this case. God is telling them in advance what the reason for this is and telling them not to worship pagan deities. Anybody who tried to trick his people into worshipping other gods was punished.

The people who worshipped false deities in chapter 17 were not unbelievers - they were Jews who went after other gods despite repeated warning. Secondly, if you actually read the verses my opponent has conveniently left out (verses 6-7), there needs to be two or three witnesses at least.

Lev 24:16

The offence is cursing the name of God (side note: this is why when the Jews translated the Old Testament into Greek, they avoided usage of the divine name - YHWH). The law included the offence, not the punishment. Punishments are subject to change.

Claim: The Bible is clear and concise so that it tells Christians to kill people

Nope. That’s just a strawman.

He says “Your god’s laws CAN NOT be changed.”
Correct - the laws belonging to the Jews can't be no and they aren’t changed. But the law was fulfilled in Christ.

Ex 21:17 / Lev 20:9

Again, the law involves the cursing, not the punishment.

Mark 7:10/Matt 15:4

Jesus isn’t setting out to re-establish this law in any event. He’s using this passage from the Mosaic Law to highlight the fact that the Pharisees were making void the word of God by tradition.

My opponent asks “Now should you be put to death because you curse at your parents?

No, we don’t need to kill the children who curse parents for reasons I’ve repeated already.

Lev 20:10
Lev 20:13

Regarding these passages, my opponent says “Yeah god hates both gays and adulterers But like nearly everything there’s never a reason why.

God doesn’t hate the person - never does he say he hates gays or adulterers. This is a strawman. Aside from this, it’s not homosexuality that is condemned - it’s homosexual practice that is condemned. And for reasons I’ve gone into, we don’t kill homosexuals who have sex with other men.

Deut 21: 18-21

This wasn’t just like every single teenager in today’s society. This passage is repeated in Leviticus which was part of a section dealing with outrageous sins that would tear a nation or a family apart. This wasn’t just a one off or something light hearted, but was an ongoing rebellion. The child hated his parents. Plus where did my opponent get that this child was a teenager? Another strawman. He was a drunkard - I don’t think kids today are continually drunk in any event. Though the punishment (not the law) could be deemed severe today, how do we know that the death penalty wasn’t an acceptable punishment for near enough every transgression deemed severe in that society? How does my opponent know that he wouldn’t accept the punishment in that society?

1 Cor 14: 34-35

Refer to 1 Cor 11:4-5

This is also based in the Church setting. Paul also speaks of women praying and prophesying in Church.

In Gal 3:27-28, Paul also stipulates that men and women are equal in Christ Jesus

Paul is NOT saying women can’t speak. He acknowledges this himself 3 chapters earlier when he says that both men and women pray/prophesy in the Church. What he is seemingly saying then is that women cannot teach in Church as this was a role specifically for men. This isn’t to say that women aren’t equal to men - they are.

Ex 21:20-21“20 (See Lev 25:44-46) And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.”

The passage does NOT say you can beat your slaves senseless. It’s actually a warning to not beat your slaves senseless, with repercussions. Accepting a few aspects of slavery does not mean God accepted slavery as a practice to be morally correct. This was established when God himself freed his people as slaves where he acknowledged the treatment of his people was inhumane.

How do you know that outright abolishing slavery which was commonplace in that society wouldn’t lead to a rebellion, anarchy, bloodshed with a slump back into slavery? If I was to invoke God’s omniscience here for a second, how do you know that he wasn’t aware that this would happen if he outright got rid of slavery? God instead gives rights to those slaves as seen in the following passages:

Exodus 21:16
Exodus 21:20-21
Exodus 21:26-27

Slavery in the Old Testament wasn’t ideal, but slaves were given rights. The main source of slaves were prisoners of war who the Jews probably wanted revenge against. Setting up workshops (not stealing a man, letting slaves go for certain injuries, not battering them to death) to teach the Jews that this is wrong in any event was perhaps a better route to go down with the eventual aim of abolishing slavery. Freeing the Jews from a pagan nation (Egypt) was to teach the Egyptians that this practice was wrong and to teach the Jews that this was wrong - if you abolish slavery altogether, you need to do it for every other nation around you and this is what I mean when I say bloodshed would be on the horizon. There’s a lot more detail I could go into.

Titus 2:9

This passage also doesn’t “condone” slavery any more than the Roman Empire (who targeted Christians and persecuted them) are condoned of in Titus 3:1.

Lev 26:21-22

The passage is highly dubious - Firstly, Jewish translations don't have the word “children” in there. Secondly, even if it was the case that this verse meant “rob you of your children”, this doesn’t imply the children were killed. Third, God is warning those of what would happen if they were to resist him. He would warn those BECAUSE he didn’t want them to enter judgement - he would rather they obeyed him than judge them.

Hos 13:16

No, God is not okaying abortion. Hosea is a prophetical book. With that in mind, God, who was their help and protection is simply describing what will happen - not ordering what he wants as my opponent would like to imagine. See the immediate context for clarification of this:

Hos 13:9
Hos 14:1

Lev 26:29

This isn’t something God commanded - this is a prophetic statement describing an event which God didn’t cause. This was fulfilled at the siege of Jerusalem - See Deut 28:53, 2 Ki 6:29, Lam 4:10.

All in all, my opponent failed to prove anything - he has set up strawmen, contradicted himself, taken verses out of their immediate and broader context, and conflated the culture of today with the culture of Israel in that time, to name but a few errors so far.

I have stated that we don’t punish sinners the way sinners were punished under the Mosaic Law, but a few verses to prove that, and show that despite being under the moral law, we are no longer under the Mosaic Law as a whole:

Acts 15:10
Rom 3:19-20
Rom 4:13-15
Rom 6:14
Rom 7:1-6

I just want to add a scenario that Jesus found himself in that I think highlights the purpose of the law which was to reveal sin and also why we don’t kill homosexuals, adulterers…etc as they did in the culture back then.

Refer to John 8:1-11 for a story of how Jesus commanded against the death penalty for an adulteress.

So here we have it folks - why we don’t apply the law the way Jews were told to. This was because to the Jews, it was an acceptable practice perhaps - one where the death penalty was brought about for every transgression and one where God was punishing the sin with the only punishment that would highlight the severity of the sin where no other punishment existed that could expose the severity of said sin.

Atheism is popular today - it’s a very attractive proposition where one is one’s own boss, but let me just finish off the first round by quoting from my opponents favourite disciple - Matt Dillahunty:

“I won’t believe something based on the number of people that believe it or like it.”

Thank You
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Ps 19:7 Sorry I did not in any way contradict MYSELF. Its you and your christian ideals that do ---always--- no exceptions, none. After all if god"s word is supposed to be perfect and according to the people who read YOUR bible, in which they clearly don"t which is rather point blank obvious and certainly with no understanding or comprehension, like you and nearly 100% of those that claim themselves to be christians, which is a true im possibility, and you most certainly are not especially with that smug smirk on your digestive face, wow, as christ is a false prophet as he broke many of god"s laws, rules and regulations and god never stated something to the effect of "I the lord thy god grants you jesus to change my laws, rules and regulations" which never occurred, so the word of god IS NOT perfect by that standard alone as YOUR jesus changed many of YOUR god"s laws such as breaking the sabbath ion which required the death penalty but nah not to jesus in which he was found to be not strung up by his butterball nuts and or stoned to death. So You by that merit alone DO NOT consider YOUR jesus to be the true messiah which is another argument all together in which christianity is false, the NT is false, and jesus is false after all YOUR jesus DID change YOUR god"s "perfect" law. So YOU contradicted. YOURSELF. That is of course unless you consider YOUR jesus to be just another person.

And to make matters worse for yourself, you didn"t pay any attention to the video posted which is irrefutable, so I shall post it again.
http://www.youtube.com... - top 10 reasons why the bible is repulsive

1 Pet 1 24-25 / Is 40:8 "These passages (Peter references Isaiah here) have nothing to do with the law. They are talking about a promise of salvation." Um no its the exact same thing as the above that NOBODY can change the word of YOUR god. It has 0 to do with "salvation". And there"s NOTHING in the OT that in any way describes "salvation". That was for the NT entirely. That"s strike 1. Any more 2 strike invented excuses and or flat out lies and or not knowing what the flying pregnant fetus screw you are squawking about and I will happily end this debate.

"at scripture is "profitable", not that it is conclusive in the way the law is to be presented - we don"t kill homosexuals who practice homosexuality for example," Yeah but YOUR god orders you to kill homosexuals. Oh but wait, you do not follow that law because you know its totally 100% absurd. And since you do not follow that law, among with many others that YOUR god put into effect such as to kill those that break the sabbath, those that commit adultery, those that curse at their parents, those that blaspheme, those that do not believe in YOUR god etc etc etc, that means that you as a person DO NOT believe that your god"s word is perfect, nor pure, and that you change it for your own personal benefit, whims and pathetic desires, which means that you do not in any possible way believe in your god. OK I"m ending this. You just flat out miserably contradicted yourself so that you have a 0% chance of redeeming yourself at all and have no knowledge or insight to what the giant ball bearings rolling down your neck into your feeble mud battery operated big black blank hole you call a brain. That's an easy strike 2 and 3. It might have been just a little bit helpful if you would have not super massively NOT contradicted yourself and NOT known what you were squawking about.

Your next argument (should you be stupid enough to post one) will be dutifully and rightly ignored. You had your chance and wow did you blow it.
Ben26_91

Con

“Sorry I did not in any way contradict MYSELF. Its you and your christian ideals that do ---always--- no exceptions, none.”

Wrong.

Here is the contradiction you presented:

“Since the laws of the LORD are perfect they can NEVER change. And yet they do by PEOPLE. Simple.”

They can never change and yet people do change them according to you? This is a contradiction. You can deny it until you turn blue in the face. I eagerly await a correction to the above statement on your part.

“After all if god"s word is supposed to be perfect and according to the people who read YOUR bible, in which they clearly don"t”

Aside from being a bare assertion and characterisation on your part grouping people that “clearly don’t” read the Bible, I find this both wrong and hypocritical quite frankly. I’ve posted various contexts to the scriptures you have posted and you have ignored them without tackling any of them. For the sake of rational debate, I eagerly await your actual refutations to my refuting of your arguments thus far.

“in which they clearly don"t which is rather point blank obvious and certainly with no understanding or comprehension, like you and nearly 100% of those that claim themselves to be christians”

This isn’t even an argument - this is an ad-hom attack at me.

You assert again that Jesus changed the laws of the Old Testament - I’m still waiting for your evidence of this.

“...such as breaking the sabbath ion which required the death penalty but nah not to jesus in which he was found to be not strung up by his butterball nuts and or stoned to death.”

Where’s the evidence for this assertion? Nowhere does Jesus get rid of the 7th day sabbath - In the Church that I am representing - the original, Catholic Church, the sabbath day still stands for Jesus didn’t get rid of it at all. It now goes by the Lord’s Day. Jesus himself stipulates that it’s not work he was doing on the Sabbath, but good and he confirmed that he was “Lord, even of the Sabbath” (Matt 12:1-8, Mark 2:23-28, Luke 6:1-5) . He never broke it and never got rid of it. You completely made that up it seems.

“So YOU contradicted. YOURSELF.”

Where I’ve actually given you the quote where you contradicted yourself, you have failed to provide evidence where I have made a contradiction. Another baseless assertion on your part.

“1 Pet 1:24-25, Is 40:8: Um no its the exact same thing as the above that NOBODY can change the word of YOUR god.”

And I’ll say it again. The “word of God” here is not a reference to every word uttered by God. It’s referring to the promise of salvation made to the nation of Israel, for which Peter also references. Peter specifically says that Jesus was the promise that had come. Please refer to the contexts of these two passages. All you have done is cherry picked the verse out of it’s context and stated it means something completely contrary to what it actually means. I’ll make the statement again - these passages have nothing to do with the law. That’s you and your video refuted. And to back this up, allow me to post the context which you seemingly keep ignoring. I will be highlighting in bold text the key passages that show that the "word" (singular, not plural - not "words") of God that's being spoken of is a promise and not literally every word, otherwise Peter would write using the plurality of words.

1 Pet 1:14 - 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof fadeth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Notice the last part of the passage especially: "And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." They're preaching of hope and sanctification in Jesus. They already knew the law. They weren't preached the law again. Again, this passage has NOTHING to do with the law. It's about salvation/sanctification looking to the hope they were promised of, which is Jesus. The Gospel of Jesus was preached to them.

Peter's message is based on the following passage in Isaiah 40:1-11. I will give the passage which my opponent has quoted (verse 8) in it's context, which my opponent has also completely disregarded and ignored. The reason for this is it's apparent it shoots down his argument and the video he keeps accusing me of ignoring (which I haven't - I'm tackling it head on right now). Again, I will be highlighting the key parts of the passage which again show that the word (singular - not "words") of God which stand forever isn't a reference to the law, but a reference to the hope for Israel)

Is 40:1-11 1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. 2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for her sins. 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God (fulfilled when John preached Christ in the wilderness who was the hope for Israel - the PROMISED messiah). 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. 9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! 10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with a strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.


“Yeah but YOUR god orders you to kill homosexuals.”

No he doesn’t. I’ve already given you many many passages that show why we don’t kill homosexuals or adulterers and i've also given you cultural reasons for why homosexuals aren't killed - refer to the passage about Jesus and the adulteress as a case in point. And as I’ve stipulated, the law didn’t include the punishment - it only included the crime. Please see the following link from a Jewish source giving all 613 laws. None of them include the commission to kill homosexuals.

https://www.chabad.org...

“you do not follow that law because you know its totally 100% absurd.”

The law isn’t absurd - the culture in my society has nothing to do with the culture in the Jewish society in Israel at that time. The law didn’t include the punishment. If it did, I highly doubt I’d be converting to the Catholic Church. I’m understanding of cultural applications.

“you have a 0% chance of redeeming yourself at all and have no knowledge or insight to what the giant ball bearings rolling down your neck into your feeble mud battery operated big black blank hole you call a brain.”

Are you going to debate instead of giving ad-hom attacks?

“Your next argument (should you be stupid enough to post one) will be dutifully and rightly ignored. You had your chance and wow did you blow it.”

Another ad-hom.

----------------

In the first round, my opponent attacked strawmen, ripped passages out of their immediate context, misunderstood the meaning of the law and conflated the culture of Israel at that time with the culture of our societies today.

In the second round, my opponent stuck by the same strawmen that i've already highlighted, still rips out passages of their immediate context, accused me of contradicting myself with no evidence whatsoever, conflated societies and has also ad-hom attacked me and other Christians with no basis.

So far, my rebuttals to his arguments have been left with no return.

I eagerly await a formal debate for the remaining rounds, where my opponent can actually tackle the points I make instead of attacking me, my character or misrepresenting my position.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

You paid absolutely no attention whatsoever to the videos. You only pay attention to your rambling mouth. You have 0 counter for nothing.

Let's look at your jesus breaking the sabbath as you demanded because you are a complete idiot and you do not know your bible AT ALL, you only pretend that you do which never works, only its much worse you sad pathetic oafing manure spread who cannot possibly have any genuine friends or loved ones as so so so many here on debate.org don't and deservedly so don't.
Exodus 31:14 "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." That's pretty clear. And YOUR jesus IS NOT GOD and had no permission whatsoever to overturn this law as he word on the sabbath and thus should---have---been---put---to---death.. Thus jesus WAS NOT THE MESSIAH. PE-RI-OD. And since NO ONE has chaged this idiotice law among many others tat were listed in RD1 in which I'm not going to get into because you do not know your bible, you only come up with excuses for it AND you do not obey your god, thus you do not believe in him, I'm just slamming you to the rectal itch even further as you rightly deserve. Ready?
* Numbers 15: 32-36 "32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
* John 7:23 "If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?" Well well well well what a super massive hypocritical contradiction to the above verses Numbers Numbers 15: 32-36 imagine that! Wow. Yet another super massive hypocritical contradiction out of a good at least 1,000 or so of its inconsistencies in your bible making the damn thing truly unreadable.
* John 5:18 "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." Making himself equal with god? Who in the f--k did this jesus character think he was AND especially without permission from god?
* John 9: 14-16 "14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes. 15 Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see. 16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them." jesus was NOT EXEMPT from working on the sabbath according to anyone and especially god in which there's nothing that said he was. jesus cannot sudden;y say I'm here POOF I'm going to change god's PERFECT laws. Sorry.
* Mark 3: 1-6 "And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him."Wowzers a withered hand is really taking care of the suffering - right? Here's a nice little video for your teeny tiny little brain.
http://www.youtube.com... - Why christianity is unreasonable
* Matthew 12: 1-2 " At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day." So the disciples should have been executed as well.
* Luke 13:14 "And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day." Well that's pretty clear.

OK so I'm done.
Ben26_91

Con

“You paid absolutely no attention whatsoever to the videos. You only pay attention to your rambling mouth...”

Another attack at me. I specifically answered your points that you took out the videos. I’m still waiting for your responses to my rebuttals. Instead, it looks like you’ve just decided to introduce some new passages which I will also deal with one by one. I’m debating you, not somebody else's opinion on a video and so I am only obligated to debate the points you make - otherwise, that’s just not how debates work. As it so happens, I’ve answered every objection you have raised so far.

I’ve watched the videos, it appears that all the points you bring up were also brought up in the videos. If there’s a point you feel I’ve missed, do bring it up and I will tackle it like I’ve done so with all other points you’ve made thus far.

There is one thing I’d like to address that the guy in the first video makes (the top 10 reasons why the Bible is repulsive).

In the first video (the top 10 reasons why the Bible is repulsive), the guy said at 0:40 “if 99% of Americans believe in the 10 commandments, how can the Bible be repulsive? It’s because they’ve never actually read the Bible.”

How on earth does he know this? That is such an over generalization. Plus, can I just say that this is a strawman. It’s not the believing in the 10 commandments that Christians do - it’s the believing in God. The 10 commandments are just accepted, not believed in.
He then goes on to bring up the fourth commandment as an example to talk about the Sabbath and then mentions stores that are open on the Sabbath day. This is irrelevant - You’re either a Christian that accepts the Sabbath/Lord’s Day or you’re not. Belief (Trust) in God precedes the accepting of the Sabbath (Which now goes by the Lord’s Day). If you’re working on the Lord’s Day for no good reason, then you’re obviously not trusting in God and this therefore makes you not a Christian, so this 99% figure that was completely made up is massively incorrect.
Just a side note here - This is not a violation of the “No true Scotsman” fallacy, because I haven’t redefined what makes a Christian. I’ve simply re-asserted the correct definition (relating to or professing Christianity or its teachings.) The teaching of Christianity state that you must accept the Lord’s Day and not do any work on that day unless it is to do good - feeding your family in this instance when you have no money would be a good thing/charitable thing and not unnecessary work.

“Let's look at your jesus breaking the sabbath as you demanded because you are a complete idiot and you do not know your bible AT ALL, you only pretend that you do which never works, only its much worse you sad pathetic oafing manure spread who cannot possibly have any genuine friends or loved ones as so so so many here on debate.org don't and deservedly so don't.”

This is just an ad-hom attack again.

“Exodus 31:14 "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." That's pretty clear. And YOUR jesus IS NOT GOD and had no permission whatsoever to overturn this law as he word on the sabbath and thus should---have---been---put---to---death.. Thus jesus WAS NOT THE MESSIAH.”

What on earth? I’ve been through this passage already. I’ve already made mention that the law wasn’t changed and neither did Jesus change it. Changing/Adherence are two completely different ideas altogether.

“PE-RI-OD. And since NO ONE has chaged this idiotice law among many others tat were listed in RD1 in which I'm not going to get into because you do not know your bible, you only come up with excuses for it AND you do not obey your god, thus you do not believe in him, I'm just slamming you to the rectal itch even further as you rightly deserve. Ready?”

The God Christians believe in isn’t confined to the Old Testament. I’m sorry that this seemingly upsets you. If you truly understood the difference between natural law and the Mosaic law, what Jesus came for, what the job of apostles was in teaching things pertaining to the law, you’d understand the points I make. Otherwise, you’re just regurgitating the same stuff over and over again without actually addressing the points I make.

Numbers 15: 32-36 "32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

This is just a description of what the Jews did at a particular place and time. It doesn’t cover the rebuttals I’ve already given and why Christians don’t do this today.

John 7:23 "If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?"

Context is key again. In verse 19, Jesus asks the Jews if it was not Moses that gave the law, yet none of them kept the law. The Jews accused Jesus of being possessed because of his authority coming from God to teach. Jesus in the passage was very much against breaking the law. What he was saying is that the Jews misrepresented the Sabbath and took it far too literally when not everything that gets done on the Sabbath constitutes work. Doing good, such as receiving circumcision in this passage was important, even on the Sabbath because it didn't violate the Sabbath, yet it fulfilled other requirements of the law. The whole point of the passage is to do as much good without fear of breaking other aspects of the law.

Verse 24 is evidence of this interpretation:

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

This occurred after Jesus had healed an ill man and told him to rise and take up his bed. The Jews told the man not to take up his bed because they deemed that this was work and that it would break the Sabbath requirements. Jesus in other passages says that it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath. See the following passage:

Matthew 12:10-12 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. (11) And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? (12) How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

There can be exceptions to a rule and nothing in Old Testament law restricts exceptions to the rule when good needs to be done. When it’s lawful to do good on the Sabbath, this meets the exception to the rule that Jesus (who is God and had authority from the Father) stipulated. The same explanation for this passage would apply to John 9:14-16, Matthew 12:1-2, Luke 13:14 and Mark 3:1-6.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Backwards quitting ANOTHER debate HE started??!!!!! Is anyone surprised?? He often quits when he realizes he's losing.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Mingodalia - As stated, since you cannot follow simple goo goo gaa gaa instructions, you go right ahead and state how "I" am taking the verses out of context when the verses posted are not "my" verses. They are verses taken directly from YOUR bible in which is so blatantly crystal clear that you have not read in which YOUR god would never choose text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible in the first place. So you go right ahead and you prove that I am taking any of the verses out of context that have been stated within this debate. Chapters and verses only please. No more dancing with ring around your christian neck in a noose will be accepted because your excuses have run out and you 100% know that you are wrong. So why the fiasco? Oh I get it, you hate me and all you are trying to do is see if somewhere, anywhere I can slip up and thus see that you you can prove yourself correct and me false at all costs. Well it hasn't worked thus far. Try harder. I am so much better at this than you will ---ever--- be. And I will always know a lot more about YOUR god, religion and bible than you ---ever--- will. Ta ta.
Posted by jent0401 3 years ago
jent0401
Still waiting on your return of serve.
I've been nothing but patient.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
The following exception(s) occurred:
You cannot accept this challenge because you do not match the Instigator's age and/or rank criteria.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 years ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
And you're still at it with your wall of text. I have no other place but here to challenge you. This is of your own making. For I have bothered to start using Grammarly just for you. I have not seen anything of your one and only friend on this site. Im-intelligent
I do wonder whatever happened to him. I hope he is alright. I hope he's on holidays or something good. Because I do miss him.

So are you going to let me debate with you and lower your debate settings as now use correct grammar and spelling? Please, I am just itching to bombard your castle walls of text. I'll be kind to you while your walls crumble to dust.

Come on lets dance as no one will even bother with you anymore.
Posted by Mingodalia 3 years ago
Mingodalia
You claim a topic then list verses that aren't about what you say they are when I go to look them up.
Posted by Mingodalia 3 years ago
Mingodalia
What's amazing is that he thinks civilization is civilized...
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
They are not "my" verses. They are verses taken directly from YOUR christian kjv bible. And since YOU think that "I" am taking the "some" of the verses out of context, then you would be required to prove it. Chapters and verses only please. http://www.youtube.com... - Context!!!!!
Posted by Mingodalia 3 years ago
Mingodalia
I looked up some of Pro's verses. Just like I suspected. The context is wrong and some aren't even about the topic he attached them too. Just as he did in his debate with me.
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