The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
PrivateBoi
Con (against)

The god that christians believe in is amazingly STUPID!!!!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/28/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 368 times Debate No: 116082
Debate Rounds (5)
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Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

The god of the bible would not be stupid enough to use text as a form of communication to god.
Here are some do or die videos to prove this. The videos do not cover even half of the reasons why this shoddy unproved god character would not use text as a form of communication.
If you do not view the videos, it means that you clearly do not know your subject matter all that well.

- Video 1. Christians don't understand the character of God
-Video 2. The god that christians believe in is amazingly STUPID!!!!"
- Video 3. Atheist Experience 21:49 with Tracie Harris zand Don Baker (Call starts at approx 47:30. Picks up after a long introduction 54:45 )
- Video 4. The Bible is not Evidence of god

RULES: Prove that the god of the bible would use text as a form of communication to god.

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
PrivateBoi

Con

I would like to start off by saying that the "RULES" section is flawed. God, throughout much of the bible has communicated in ways other than just text. In ways such as bellowing from heaven, inflicting plagues, and sending his Son to teach his ways. God doesn't just communicate through text in the bible, it is the miracles he does and morals he teaches that inspires the authors to write from their viewpoint and interpret what they believe God is telling them through his actions.

This debate in no way is trying to prove the existence of God, making your 1st and 4th video essentially worthless. The God of Christians is not "amazingly stupid" because people authored his work they way they interpreted it. While do I understand the skepticism of being worried about translation and copies and the work may be overall tainted or things lost in translation, that is not because a God is "amazingly stupid".

I don't know what this debate is trying to prove, because it seems, at least from my point of view, that you aren't interested in changing your viewpoints from the harshness of your challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Th Rules section is not flawed. You are just an idiot teeny bopper with the cabbage batbrain of an imp who should have not accepted this debate who cannot understand simpleton instructions.
Oh really?The god of the bible has communicated in other ways other than text? That's a good one. Please invent better excuses other than foaming at the drawers. You cannot even prove that this god of yours even exists. So how can you prove that this god of yours communicates in other forms other than text in which is the only form of communication you have thus far of this god to begin with?
No miracles of this god, no inflicting of these plagues, no sneeze rag christ has ever been proved. These are all stories OF TEXT in your bible and nothing more in which you cannot prove has ever happened.
Here's how religions are formed - to explain the unexplained. Then through that most religions, and christianity is no exception, at the top is power, then is instilled fear and then control. "he teaches that inspires the authors to write from their viewpoint" Oh yeah. You just described that perfectly. Which is why this god of yours would never use text so these authors WOULD GET IT WRONG. Did that ever occur to you? And then you have serious problems of translations after translations after translations after copies after copies after dead languages after dead languages to be passed down through the generations with countless interpreters and who gives these interpreters the right to change one god damned word of god"s written word that is supposed to be "perfect" in the first place with a 0% chance of being able to trace it back to the original? Oh but wait, even better is when the very words of god are changed, yes those very verses as to what god said. So again this god of YOURS is amazingly STUPID to have chosen text for communication. Don't you think for a single second that this god of YOURS if omnipotent and knows everything and is all knowing and is all powerful would have foreseen all these glaring errors (and there's plenty more) and NOT have chosen text, not for any reason, not ever? Or can't you see that far to say "duh".
And you have in no way NOT proved that this god of YOURS would not use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible.
PrivateBoi

Con

So okay: The rules section is not flawed. It then becomes a case of "Prove that the god of the bible would use text as a form of communication to god". I don't know why the god of the bible would need to communicate in any form to god, so that rule to follow suit with your video which premise is "God is 'amazingly stupid' because he uses text (the bible) to communicate with no definitive proof of his existence." I'll proceed with my argument to address this prompt.

Nowhere in this debate does it say prove the existence of God. It's different strokes really. There is no way to convince you there is a god, because I admit I don't believe in any "true" evidence God exists. There's no non-anecdotal miracle I can cite to that can't be explained via science, and I wouldn't accept this debate if that had been the premise. However, I did accept the debate because the premise is wrong in that you assume God only communicated through text. God, in the book you condemn, is explicitly known to send messages through his own voice in people's ears through sending what essentially was a translator (Jesus Christ) to send his message.

So to address the parts about evidence, let's discuss that many historians do believe in the existence of Jesus. Historians have also agreed that the Crucifixion of Jesus happened. And some scholars of that group also believe that the reasoning behind his Crucifixion is from the messages he spread from God and being a "false prophet". So, what it boils down to is your faith, I guess. The Crucifixion of Jesus based on what he was told by God happened. So, to me, this proves that historians have proven that God communicated with the earth via Jesus. We know he was and why he was crucified, so that is definitive proof we had God communicate via Jesus.

I would like to point out this does answer your prompt whether you choose to fully accept it or not. Jesus has been accepted historically and so has his crucifixion. I would however, again ask the purpose of this debate? Are you actually seeking for civil debate or is this a way to look down on people and attempt to hold superiority over people you deem as lesser due to their belief system. I, in no way, have attempted to insult you or your belief system. If you think I have, I would like to apologize, as it was not my intention. I think civility is an important component to a debate like this and I hope you can pass on the same courtesy I've passed to you in your next response.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

I meant this to be the last paragraph but decided its better for the first...Civil debate? Sure, if you can offer something intelligent with an education and bring up some evidence and not some swiss cheese as nearly 100% of all of my opponents have. But this argument is civil for me. And I think you did a pretty damn good job here. sorry if I seem insulting here. I'm not really. Please take it with a grain of butterfly salt stacked on top of old smoggy. My hands are in agony at this point and are completely numb. So typing is very difficult to say the least. And believe me, I know what pain is. But I"m constantly stumbling over keys. My belief system is f--k the printed god of the bible as this thing pretty much hates everything --- especially chilly children. Care for Mother Earth. Stop all wars and hate. Get rid of all guns, no exceptions. Start--to---care---about---each---other---damn---it!!!!!!! The printed god of the bible doesn't. As all life is spiritual AND is inner connected!!!!!

"I don't know why the god of the bible would need to communicate in any form to god," Oh I see, so everything according to you, that god is, is mindless empty voidless completely empty space since there is no form of communication to YOUR god. So that even makes this god of YOURS even more stupider that even any atheist could possibly ever assume. "so that rule to follow suit with your video" " Its not my video. Its a video I presented to ultimately show that YOUR god would not ever be stupid enough to use text as a form of communication, in which he wouldn't.

"Nowhere in this debate does it say prove the existence of God." I"m puzzled? Which god? After all there are millions of them that have been created through the 100,000 or so religions that have been created in an attempt to explain the unexplained throughout the existence of the human race.
"It's different strokes really. There is no way to convince you there is a god, because I admit I don't believe in any "true" evidence God exists. There's no non-anecdotal miracle I can cite to that can't be explained via science, and I wouldn't accept this debate if that had been the premise." Duhsvillve via slippery furry tongued orange peels. "However, I did accept the debate because the premise is wrong in that you assume God only communicated through text." Well, see you like the typical christian CAN"T READ. Is that the title of this debate? No you only form in your little beanie what you want to chirp without any consequence and then you go from there. "God, in the book you condemn, is explicitly known to send messages through his own voice in people's ears through sending what essentially was a translator (Jesus Christ) to send his message." Well by gum, its still in text form now isn"t it without proof of one god damned thing. And as stated you cannot prove that god exists, you cannot prove that jesus has ever existed, so until you do, all you have is text.

"So to address the parts about evidence, let's discuss that many historians do believe in the existence of Jesus. Historians have also agreed that the Crucifixion of Jesus happened." No they haven"t. And even if they have so what? Doesn"t mean that this shabby little nobody was a prophet of this god in which nobody can even prove exists.
Have fun in watching these videos. (Yah didn"t watch the first bunch of videos in the first round. That"s a point blank obvious no.)
- jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra)
- The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens)
- Did jesus Exist?
- Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier)
- Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years?") Um duh. Do you REALLY THINK jesus existed?
- The Gospel According to Carrier (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, but scrap all the mythology)
- Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David
- Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, or how not to debate an Atheist! (skip to the 7:00 mark!!!) Oh this one is good and beyond hilarious
- What did jesus do for you?

So we can scrap the rest of your paragraph as nothingness. My that was fun. "so that is definitive proof we had God communicate via Jesus." Once again you cannot even prove that this god of yours even exists. And you only have the bible to prove that he does. The same is true for jesus. And all you have are STORIES VIA TEXTS that cannot be proven to be true. So don"t tell me that ""It's different strokes really. There is no way to convince you there is a god, because I admit I don't believe in any "true" evidence God exists. There's no non-anecdotal miracle I can cite to that can't be explained via science," because absolutely you 100% do.

What is the purpose of this debate? The god of the bible is tragically flawed as the only way of communication that there was with this god was through text, and this god would not use text if even a billionth way competent, which is a HUGE contradiction, thus in no possible way should be worshiped (there"s also plenty more reasons, saved for other debates why this printed god god the bible should NOT BE WORSHIPED BY ANYONE FOR ANY REASON). Now if you were have have watched the videos in the first round in which you clearly didn"t, you would have fully understood that. As I
stated "do or die".

AND I haven"t even gotten into why this god would never use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible. Its simple common sense. Oh yes, the bible shows this all too well. Gee I as well as everyone can out-think this supposed god.

AND part of it which you completely ignored, so I shall repeat it" NOTHING is established in scripture of your holy book so everybody can get it wrong as there"s been 0 updates in at least 2,000 years. There"s translations upon translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies upon dead languages upon dead langanguages with absolutely 0% of a chance to trace it back to the original. And there"s no original in the first place! So absolutely nobody is interpreting correctly. And within those translations and copies throughout the generations, characters and what they have said, especially with its leading characters, namely god and christ, their quotes/ verses have changed over time. Oh really? Who has the right and or knowhow to change ANY of god"s language to update it to whatever they felt like and or to amputate it into ---their--- language? Did they consulte god and or jesus to see if this was OK? Of course not. And more importantly did they get it right as an updated version to what these characters would say in this day and age, or even back then when the translations were updated? 100% certainly not. So once again god if as stated was reasonably intelligent would ---never--- use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible because he would have certainly have foreseen all of these major faults.

Please tc and have fun -Michael
PrivateBoi

Con

So I'll start with the premise of the debate response. Yes, I did read the title of the debate. "The god that Christians believe in is amazingly STUPID!!!!" is not exactly what I would call a substantive debate in that there are no positions that aren't an emotion filled screaming match. I feel the rules section you lined up is a better wording for the debate topic you want, so I chose to go with that. As for another point, the spiel about there being multiple gods is completely irrelevant in this debate. You pointed out a specific god, (Known as God/Yahweh/The Lord in the bible.) And when I reference him by what he's referred to as you take it as a way to discredit the christian god because other religions exist? I'm assuming what you mean by this is along the lines of because so many other religions exist, religions are less trustworthy? But that's a false dichotomy. Just because there's many versions of what God created what doesn't mean all are wrong. You can't look at billions of people's lifestyles and say all those lifestyles are wrong because people with other lifestyles exist.

I'm glad you linked the Richard Carrier. This is where the crossroads exists. You can either take what Jesus said as hullabaloo and say that while he existed, he was just a crazy guy, or you can say that he was genuine and the true messiah. I hope my argument didn't come off as "Jesus existed therefore God is entirely real and the ruler of all". What I mean with that point is the Jesus stuff did happen, but it's up to people the believe whether Jesus was the real deal or not.

I wold also like to address the care for people part because I think its important. You say the god of the bible doesn't care. And yes, I know, before you point out "What about slavery in the bible, what about child abuse in the bible, what about x in the bible". I agree, that stuff exists in the bible, and I'm not going to fight for its morality, because I don't believe there is rationale in that. But, I will say that is an update that has come about in the last 2000 years. Christianity, to many people is somewhat of a living religion in that it does change with the times. The vast majority of Christians, if not all Christians, condemn slavery now, most Christians condemn child abuse , and other examples like that. Some updates of the Bible completely omit those sections! While I don't agree with the omission of those sections because I think revisionist history is wrong, it's hard to say there hasn't been updates. I would also like to make a point against one of the points in one of the videos you provided me. If you read the entirety of the bible, and come away with only those messages of slavery and child abuse, you are either skimming through it to make a point against it or just ignorant. The bible says so much more about morals and ethics that so many people believe in now and what shaped most of Western Civilization.

And to address the "Purpose of this debate section". I completely disagree with your point of view. From your perspective, Christianity should be completely abolished because you don't agree with its legitimacy? As I think I've done pretty well, have provided evidence that people do genuinely believe in communications of God that aren't text. Some people even claim to see him during natural disasters as "he is angry". Now you'll usually see this with radicalists that line up with First Great Awakening ideals, however you think just because you don't believe in his existence that this somehow disallows others from seeing his work in aspects of life. Most Christians believe that when you believe in God you notice his communication in everything. So, I guess what I'm saying this boils down to is that your faith in something higher may be responsible for everyday things.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

Again since you completely ignored it. And for a third time" NOTHING is established in scripture of your holy book so everybody can get it wrong as there"s been 0 updates in at least 2,000 years. There"s translations upon translations upon copies upon dead languages with absolutely 0% of a chance to trace it back to the original. And there"s no original in the first place! So absolutely nobody is interpreting correctly. And within those translations and copies throughout the generations, characters and what they have said, especially with its leading characters, namely god and christ, their quotes/ verses have changed over time. Oh really? Who has the right and or knowhow to change ANY of god"s language to update it to whatever they felt like and or to amputate it into ---their--- language? Did they consulte god and or jesus to see if this was OK? Of course not. More importantly did they get it right as an updated version to what these characters would say in this day and age, or even back then when the translations were updated? 100% certainly not. So once again god if as stated was reasonably intelligent would ---never--- use text as a form of communication, because he would have certainly have foreseen all of these major faults.

Been over the previous point so onto the next" "As for another point, the spiel about there being multiple gods is completely irrelevant in this debate." Ab-so-lu-te-ly not. If this god of the bible is trying to prove himself as being "one" and yet there are certainly discrepancies in the bible that show more than one, then absolutely not is it "irrelevant". Again, why this god of the bible would ---never--- use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible. "You pointed out a specific god, (Known as God/Yahweh/The Lord in the bible.)" Actually um no Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:" continuing "And when I reference him by what he's referred to as you take it as a way to discredit the christian god because other religions exist?" Duh. "Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence." Matt Dillahunty. ALL RELIGIONS HAVE FAITH. And ANYTHING can be taken upon faith. Now you go right ahead and prove all other religions false and christianity truthful. "I'm assuming what you mean by this is along the lines of because so many other religions exist, religions are less trustworthy?" No, no religion is trustworthy. That"s because no religion has been recorded as being truthful. "Just because there's many versions of what God created" WHAT? Um no. Its quite the opposite. That"s an easy strike 1. If I have given you earlier strikes, I don"t remember, but that is so far out of line. There"s been plenty of religion before this so-called god came along to f--k the world. .And with that statement you are stating that you actually believe that YOUR god exists, when you have claimed that he doesn"t. Which is it? All religions are wrong because there"s no tests, no demonstrations to prove them to be correct.
"You can't look at billions of people's lifestyles..." Sure I can, and so can anyone else because its an unproved "belief".

"You can either take what Jesus said as hullabaloo..." Well every sane person must. And yet you must somehow believe that this jesus character existed without a single shred of proof. Wow! Just because the bible said so, then it must be true!

"What I mean with that point is the Jesus stuff did happen," Then why isn"t it clear that it did? That"s another reason why this god of YOURS would never use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible, because it isn"t clear. YOUR jesus, YOUR messiah is the most fought after figure in the history of the human race.

but it's up to people the believe whether Jesus was the real deal or not.

"The vast majority of Christians, if not all Christians, condemn slavery..." Well then they disobey the god that you believe in. Again TEXT. "Some updates of the Bible completely omit those sections!" Uh huh, and which would those be? See that"s yet another reason why this supposed god would ---never--- use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible. If anything was omitted, well gee, don"t you think it would be put back in? And this god of wondrous communication skills would have NOT foreseen this to have put it back? Now you are talking about omission" well gee, don"t you think that cannibalism, necrophilia, severe child abuse etc etc etc - don"t you think that that could have been omitted? Oh no. Not according to its god. The bible and god"s word after all is "perfect".
*Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."
*Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
*2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
*Psalm 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple."
*Psalm 119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

"If you read the entirety of the bible, and come away with only those messages of slavery and child abuse..." Well that"s just plain stupid and ignorant. I have read the bible in which if this god is kind caring and loving, harmonious, etc in which he isn"t, then you haven"t read your bible.

* god hates gays in his bible and wants them stoned to death LV 20:13
* god hates anyone that blasphemes and wants to put you to death LV 24:16
* god hates anyone that does not believe in him in his bible 2 CHR 15: 12-13, ESPECIALLY if someone worships another god/ idols other than himself, thus wants to kill them DT 13: 9-10 and 17: 2-5
* god endorses slavery in his bible EX 21 the entire chapter especially 20-21 which is truly sick and disgusting, LV 25:39, LV 25:42, LV 25: 44-46, DT 15: 12-15, DT 23: 14-16, MT 18:25,
* god gets jealous in his bible EX 20: 3-5, EX 34:14, DT 4: 23-24, DT 32: 16-17, DT 5:9, DT 6:15, JH 24:19, PS 79:5, PS 78:58, 2 COR 1:2,
* god wants you to die in his bible if you break the sabbath EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36
* god issues death warrants on those that curse at their parents (they are probably children) EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4
* god wants to put you to death in his bible if you commit adultery LV 20:10
* god has freely admitted in his bible numerous times that he IS evil IS 45:7, 2 SAM 12: 11-14 sick and disgusting, EX 32:14, 1 KS 1 22: 22-23, 2 CR 18:22, JM 19:3, JM 19:15, JM 23:12, AM 3:6, DT 30:15, 2 KS 22:16, JU 9:23, PV 15:3
* god in his bible knowingly and truly hates children through numerous passages such as LM4: 9-11, MT 10:37, MT 2:16, JG 21:10, 2 SAM 12:11-14 which is truly sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16, 2 KS 15:16, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, EX 12: 29-30, IS 13: 15-18, MT 2:16, (EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4, MT 10:21), JG 11: 30-33, PS 137: 8-9, 2 KS 6: 28-29, DT 21: 18-21, DT 32:25, DT 2: 32-34, DT 3: 3-6, JG 19: 24-29, EX 12:29, 2 HS 2: 23-24, LV 26:29, JM 11: 22-23, JM 19: 7-9, JM 51: 22-26, 2 KS 8: 9-15,LM 2: 20-22, RV 2: 18-23
* god hates women in his bible LM 4 9-11 sick and disgusting, HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, JD 21:10, 2 SAM 12 11-14 sick and disgusting, DT 2:34, NU 31 17:18, LV 26 21:22, 1 SAM 15:3, HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, DT 2 32-34, 2 KS 8: 9-15, 2 KS 15:16 sick and disgusting, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, 2 KS 6: 28-29 sick and disgusting, JD 19: 24-29, LM 2 20-22 sick and disgusting, 1 COR 14:34,1 TY 2:12
* god loves rape in his bible NU 31: 17-18, 2 SAM 12: 11-18 sick and disgusting, JD 19:24-29, JD 21: 10-24, DT 20: 10-14, DT 22: 28-29, DT 21: 10-14, JD 5:30, EX 21 7-11, ZE 14: 1-2 proving that he is evil, pure evil and nothing but, is filled with hate and thus cannot be involved with love.
* god commits abortions who knows how many times within several verses in his bible, so that means that christians do not follow their god which is extremely hypocritical and contradictory from his bible HS 13:16 sick and disgusting, 2 KS 8: 9-15 sick and disgusting, 2 HS 15:16 sick and disgusting, HS 9: 11-16, and perhaps the biggest acts of abortions were committed in the great flood according to this so-called god of the bible in the great flood (which never happened btw) so who knows how many pregnant mothers died there in his bible
* god loves yummy cannibalism in his bible LM 2: 20-22, JM 11: 22-23, LV 26:29, 2 KS 6:28-29, LM 4: 9-11, proving this god to be truly sick and completely whacked out thus is evil, hates,and thus cannot be involved with love..
* Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan, all serial killers, all rapists, all tortures, all pedophiles, all sadomasochists etc etc etc combined. After all god knowingly created them which means that he is ultimately responsible for them. Its either that or god is not a god and lets them off the hook with nothing but a tap on the shoulder for their horrific, disgusting, repugnant crimes and simply god---does---not---care. Now here's some examples of god"s sickened, diseased, abominable atrocities for absolutely no reason at all... the great flood according to the bible (which never happened btw) so who knows what the body count was there? 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, 2 KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813, 2 CHR 14: 9-14 1,000,000!!! etc Yeah god is really so moral huh? Nope.

Am out of space
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
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