The Instigator
DrunkHoboSniper
Pro (for)
The Contender
PointyDelta
Con (against)

The use of identity politics is immoral

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/26/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 441 times Debate No: 109708
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

DrunkHoboSniper

Pro

The use of identity politics is immoral

The use of identity politics is becoming more and more common. It is something that I personally find distasteful, but its continued use in the media has shown to me that not only is the use of identity politics distasteful but also immoral. Identity politics leads to a race to the bottom but most importantly it is a blatant bully tactic.

The first of the two is said best by
https://www.washingtontimes.com...
This article is extremely good at showing that identity politics leads to a race to the bottom for a few reasons
1. It extremely contextual to the subject at hand when it talks about how when it came time for the Democrats to choose a new chairman of the Democratic National Committee it became a matter of who could check more minority boxes
2. It still assumes current geopolitical climates

My second claim that identity politics are used as a bulling tactic this is best said by Ben Shapiro in his book Bullies: How the Left's Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences America.
Ben Shapiro and his book are really good on this point, in fact the book isolates seven areas in which the left uses identity politics as a bully tactic
1. Insitutional Bullies
2. Anti-Patriotic Bullies
3. Race Bullies
4. Class Bullies
5. Sex Bullies
6. Green Bullies
7. Secular Bullies

The book is excellent on all seven of these issues and if need be I am more than happy to go into detail on each one. All seven are independent reasons in which
1. identity politics are used as a bully tactic
2. identity politics are immoral

With that said it can easily be shown that identity politics are distasteful and immoral.
PointyDelta

Con

I accept the challenge. Set forth your contention.
Debate Round No. 1
DrunkHoboSniper

Pro

They are the same as above
The use of identity politics is immoral

The use of identity politics is becoming more and more common. It is something that I personally find distasteful, but its continued use in the media has shown to me that not only is the use of identity politics distasteful but also immoral. Identity politics leads to a race to the bottom but most importantly it is a blatant bully tactic.

The first of the two is said best by
https://www.washingtontimes.com......
This article is extremely good at showing that identity politics leads to a race to the bottom for a few reasons
1. It extremely contextual to the subject at hand when it talks about how when it came time for the Democrats to choose a new chairman of the Democratic National Committee it became a matter of who could check more minority boxes
2. It still assumes current geopolitical climates

My second claim that identity politics are used as a bulling tactic this is best said by Ben Shapiro in his book Bullies: How the Left's Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences America.
Ben Shapiro and his book are really good on this point, in fact the book isolates seven areas in which the left uses identity politics as a bully tactic
1. Insitutional Bullies
2. Anti-Patriotic Bullies
3. Race Bullies
4. Class Bullies
5. Sex Bullies
6. Green Bullies
7. Secular Bullies

The book is excellent on all seven of these issues and if need be I am more than happy to go into detail on each one. All seven are independent reasons in which
1. identity politics are used as a bully tactic
2. identity politics are immoral

With that said it can easily be shown that identity politics are distasteful and immoral.
PointyDelta

Con

++Rebuttal++
Let's quickly deal with the mistakes my opponent makes in their argument and then move on to substantative. Before we do that, let's just set down some definitions, because we might as well be tilting at windmills without them.

Identity politics: politics in which groups of people having a particular racial, religious, ethnic, social, or cultural identity tend to promote their own specific interests or concerns without regard to the interests or concerns of any larger political group

Immoral: not moral

Let's also critique the use of "the left" by my opponent - the sweeping statements they made haven't been backed up by much empirics other than praxeology and reading from Shapiro's book.

Onto rebuttal.

Let's start with the article my opponent posted - let's first off notice that the washington times has a strong conservative bias [1], given that it was created (in the words of sun myung moon, the founder to "conservatively fight communism" [2] and as an alternative to the Washington Post (which was seen as having an excessive liberal bias) [3]) This already weakens the claims made within it given their incentive is strong to put forth misleading claims that show Democrats and the left in general in a bad light in order to "conservatively fight communism" or attempt to get GOP actors into the USFG.

It seems my opponent has googled "race to the bottom democrats" and found the first article that seems to support his point. Even if this article were reliable in any way in terms of establishing his claim to the motion, it still doesn't even support it - it's actually criticising the rather chaotic nomination and election process in the DNC. We can agree on that and it still has no impact whatever on the motion. The link between this and identity politics is tenuous at best, especially when my opponent still can't agree what identity politics even is. My opponent has failed to show that identity politics leads to a race to the bottom, or even what a "race to the bottom" is!

Next, my opponent doesn't offer much in the way of actual evidence other than his source being "good" on the topic - he doesn't present any actual empirics here on the occurence of what he terms "bullying". More on this later.
Regardless, this leads to what's going to be Pro's actual biggest issue in this debate, which is rather than attempting to prove that identity politics are a bad, he's going to try to prove that it's immoral. That's a completely different beast altogether and I'd ask any judge to consider that even if Pro somehow manages to exceed his first round effort and prove that identity politics is bad, if he hasn't proven that it's specifically immoral you must vote Con.

++Substantative++
Identity politics leads to greater group representation

P1: we live in a representative democracy
P2: the role of representatives is to represent a large amount of individuals as is possible, not only the ones that vote for them
P3: identity politics provides a way for groups to air their concerns and have their complaints heard
P4: therefore enabling them to achieve greater representation
C1: so there is greater representation for all groups, specifically for minority groups (which is a good)
C2: the system also represents more peoples, which is also a good

Identity politics leads to more representation in democratic bodies like the Senate/House or the UK House of Parliament, not only for the minority group (which is obviously good for them) but also for the whole, and democratic representation is a good given that the role of a democracy is to represent as many people within the country as is possible

Con wins on any outcome case my opponent may make given that the better representation outweighs the rather filmsy case we've heard for identity politics as some sort of a nebulous bad emanating from the spectre/strawman of "the left".
2.) ibid
3.) ibid


Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Negotiate 2 years ago
Negotiate
In my mind, identity politics are dangerous. This is because of the amount of 'labeling' that occurs. By saying 'label' I refer to how we as a society feel the need to 'label' ourselves as a certain race, religion, etc. The danger that comes with labeling is when we use our labels against one another such as 'Democrat' vs. 'Republican.' To get to my point- why do we feel it is necessary to label ourselves? Sure it may feel amazing to associate with similar people- but why can't we see how dangerous it can be? It is my belief that if we rid ourselves of all our labels other than human, we can live a more peaceful life.

If anyone would like to debate with me about this, I'm always happy to accept.
Thanks for the read everyone, and have a great week! Looking forward to seeing the results of this interesting debate...
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