The Instigator
killshot
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Blessed_Ravon
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

There Are Only 2 Genders

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
killshot
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/4/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 961 times Debate No: 120159
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

killshot

Pro

There are only 2 genders, Male and female. There is a third category, Intersex, For those born with deformations, But that is irrelevant to my proposition.

I wholly disagree with the ideas of gender fluidity and ideas like "gender is a social construct". Individuals that are suffering from gender dysphoria and other similar mental conditions should be helped and provided mental treatment, Not respected as leaders and handed a platform to propagate their nonsense.

The college gender movements that are attempting to remold our society is dangerous, Irresponsible, Irrational and has dire unmapped consequences.
Blessed_Ravon

Con

Intersex is relevant to your proposition since it has something to do with this topic.

Analogy: In science class/biology we are typically taught that all humans have ten fingers, But there are people in the world with abnormalities who have eleven or twelve fingers. Should we automatically dismiss them and pretend that they don't exist?

I think you happen to be confused on the idea of gender vs sex. When some say there are only 2 genders, They often confuse the idea of gender and sex. Sex is a generalization of XY chromosomes so there's an assumption that XY and XX combination of chromosomes which equals male/female comes from your chromosomes, But that's really just the idea that there's only 2 possibilities of sex. So even with in sex itself you can be born intersex which means that you are born with sexual characteristics of both of what we consider male or female.

Then you have gender. Gender is more about a mental state based off of societal norms, So within western society there's often a discussion about whether gender as being binary means that there are 2 options. Boy, Girl, Man or woman. However, In non western societies there are more than 2 options.

In western societies at least in my country, We tend to think gender to think on this binary spectrum, So you have man and woman and that's it. Those are the only 2 options. However, Gender is really more of a spectrum. So its non binary, There are not just 2 options. You have man, Woman and then everything that doesn't fit into just man and woman is considered non binary. This is an umbrella term and that includes a lot of different categorizations. You can't put a number on the amount of genders because everyone uses different words to classify themselves.

There have been different genders outside of man and woman for centuries. In India they have 3rd genders. Native American cultures have 3rd genders. In Ancient Egypt they have 3rd genders. It's a very western idea to say that there are only 2 genders and that this whole thing (that there are more than 2 genders) is a new idea changing our culture and society.
Debate Round No. 1
killshot

Pro

You said, "In science class/biology we are typically taught that all humans have ten fingers, But there are people in the world with abnormalities who have eleven or twelve fingers. Should we automatically dismiss them and pretend that they don't exist? "

I'm not advocating to pretend people suffering from gender dysphoria don't exist. If you thought that was my argument, You are mistaken and I apologize for the miscommunication. I totally agree that intersex is a thing, I even acknowledged that. All I was saying was, I don't have any contentions with the concept of intersex. Abnormalities happen as a consequence of biology and those individuals need special consideration since their biologies vary in different degrees. This is directly analogous to the example you provided where individuals are born with 11 fingers. Intersex is very rare, But it does happen. When it does, Those cases need special consideration.

Re sex/gender definitions/explanations:
I am familiar with the terms sex and gender. I am not confusing them, I'm simply merging them. I do not agree that gender is it's own thing that lives on this intangible spectrum of endless fluid possibilities that can be flipped flopped freely based on ones mood. I think the entire concept is ridiculous and nonsensical. (more below)

You said, "There have been different genders outside of man and woman for centuries. In India they have 3rd genders. Native American cultures have 3rd genders. In Ancient Egypt they have 3rd genders. It's a very western idea to say that there are only 2 genders and that this whole thing (that there are more than 2 genders) is a new idea changing our culture and society. "

We, The Western world technically have 3 sex/gender categories as well (Male, Female and Intersex). I have no problem with this. My problem is with the idea of a gender spectrum that has infinite possibilities that can be freely changed at will. This spectrum feels like it's only purpose is to provide individuality for people who find it uneasy to be normal. Where do we draw the line? What if a person who is 11 feels like they are 21 - can they legally drink? What happens if a 30 year old man thinks he's a 15 year old girl and has sex with a 15 year old boy? This opens a huge rabbit hole for crazies. A woman who "feels" like a man, Cannot get testicular cancer. A man who "feels" like a woman cannot birth a child, Get ovarian cancer or have a period.

There are clear physiological distinctions between sexes and having a dysphoria crisis does not change the underlying physiology. Our sex is tied to our physiology. Changing this will require a large list of social adaptations. For example, Laws will need to be rewritten. Should referring to someone by their biological sex be considered a hate crime? Another example could be medical treatment. If a 25 year old man walks into a doctor because he feels like he's got cervix pain - are doctors expected to actually take that seriously and perform female based tests on his male physiology?

Gender dysphoria is a mental condition. The people suffering from this delusional thinking need help. I'm not saying ignore them or pretend they are not there. I'm just saying we should not give them platforms in society to advocate their nonsense and expect everyone else to change. They are disconnected from reality. We don't hand a microphone to a schizophrenic person and pretend we also hear the voices. This to me is no different.
Blessed_Ravon

Con

Well damn you took me down really good. Hats off to you sir. Don't know what else to say. Of course there's two genders, I was just playing devil's advocate. You brought so many good points which I can't even argue back on. Good job. ;) Everyone vote for Pro for being awesome af.
Debate Round No. 2
killshot

Pro

Haha well thank you! It was a pleasure meeting/debating you. You wrote some good arguments yourself :)
Blessed_Ravon

Con

Same here, I learned some things from you. Sorry if I wasted your time or anything. Ahhhhhh
Debate Round No. 3
killshot

Pro

What? No you didn't waste my time! We're both just here to debate and have fun. Mission accomplished!
Blessed_Ravon

Con

Blessed_Ravon forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Masterful 3 years ago
Masterful
If mental state dictates ones gender, What reason is there that one cannot identify as another race?
Aren't the differences in race less biologically rooted, Than differences in gender? For example, You can workout whether the fetus has the XX or XY chromosome, But you cannot workout it's race.
Do you see now?
Posted by Masterful 3 years ago
Masterful
If gender and sex are not the same thing and this somehow proves there are more than 2 genders, Then how do we find out how many genders there are, And does this mean I can make a claim that my gender is the heteromorphic giraffe gender?
Do you see why this is silly?
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@unicorn neurological functions are different for many individuals. I've seen related studies to this and there simply isn't enough data to make a conclusion either way, Nor have there been enough independent studies to draw a scientific consensus. This stuff is rather new to science and it hasn't had enough time to mature. Even if the brain functions different, That doesn't change the underlying physiology. We already know the mental of people suffering from gender dysphoria is not normal.

A transgender woman still cannot have a period or birth a child. They can call themselves a dog, But that doesn't make them a dog. Genetically a male is a male and a female is a female. You can send a trans womans DNA to a blind DNA tester and it will come back as a male subject. Putting on make up does not change a persons sex. Waking up in a different mood from day to day (gender fluid) does not change a persons physiology either. The whole notion is ridiculous.

That being said, Try telling feminists they have a "woman" brain lol. I'm sure that won't go over well in a movement designed around gender equality.
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@point LOL
Posted by unicorngod 3 years ago
unicorngod
@pointproven

scientifically, There are not.
Posted by killshot 3 years ago
killshot
@unicorn I meant intersex is irrelevant to my argument because I agree with it. My problem is with the gender spectrum, Not male/female/intersex. I was trying to keep intersex out of the discussion because I didn't want it to straw man things.
Posted by PointProven 3 years ago
PointProven
There are only 2 genders but I reserve the right to play pretend.
Posted by unicorngod 3 years ago
unicorngod
I also believe in being non binary, But gender isn't really just a state of mind. There's proof in differs of the brain between male and female
Posted by unicorngod 3 years ago
unicorngod
how is intersex irrelevant? It's not male nor female, So are you just gonna treat it like it's nothing?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Jzyehoshua 3 years ago
Jzyehoshua
killshotBlessed_RavonTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Very well argued by Pro! They defended their position very well with logical reasoning, and both sides displayed courteous conduct. I'd have relied more on statistical evidence (Gallup polling e.g. shows LGBT identification is dissimilar by age, thus indicating it's not genetic) but I like Pro's approach.

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