The Instigator
Our_Boat_is_Right
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
McSloth
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

There are ONLY TWO Genders: Change my Mind

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/12/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 day ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 231 times Debate No: 118541
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

Our_Boat_is_Right

Pro

I believe there are only two genders/sex- biological man and women

Feel free to try and change my mind
McSloth

Con

Before delving into the issue at hand, We need to cover the problem with your definition of gender and of sex. They are two very separate things, And you cannot lump them together. While you are correct when you come to sex, Biologically there are only two sexes, Men and women respectively. You are quite wrong when it comes to the issue of gender. Gender is a social construct, Depending on someone's culture, Gender can mean very different things. Gender consist of what one particular culture deems appropriate in terms of roles, Behaviors, Activities, And attributes for men and women. I suggest you read Judith Lorber"s essay on the social construction of gender. Thus, As a society or culture changes and different ideas are introduced, And norms change, The definition of gender is also expected to change as well. So, With gender being specific to each culture, And there being numerous cultures on Earth, There cannot be one definition for gender.
Debate Round No. 1
Our_Boat_is_Right

Pro

According to science, Not wikipedia definitions, Gender and sex mean the same thing. Nothing can change your gender or sex. If you are a boy that pretends to be a girl, You are still a boy. Facts don't care about your feelings, I'm sorry.
McSloth

Con

Well according to sociologists, Gender and sex are two very different things, And to say they are the same is just plain inaccurate. This is a common misconception people have when it comes to gender and sex. Pick up a sociology text book or read any number of essays done by a sociologist and you will see that you must separate your ideas of gender and sex. Gender has nothing to do with biology, Because our ideas of what constitutes gender are nothing more than social constructions based on cultural variables, Which can change with time (as they have in the past). This debate has boiled down to an issue of definitions, And our lack of agreement when it comes to sex and gender. If you define sex/gender has the same thing, Then yes there would only be two forms, Man and woman. However, If you separate the two ideas, You cannot say there are only men and women, Because gender is culture specific. Gender is simply what a culture assigns to a specific sex, If you"re biologically a man, You need to act and do things this way. If you"re biologically a woman you need to act and do things this specific way. Let"s take the gender of a woman for example, If you go to different cultures around the world you will find many definitions for what constitutes a "proper woman", I think we can both agree on this notion at least, But if you go to different culture, You will find a completely different definition for what constitutes a "proper woman". In most western cultures, A woman is seen as an equal to a man, But head over to some eastern cultures, The woman plays a for more subservient role in the culture. As you can see these are two very different definitions of gender when it comes to women. Until we can agree on definitions, We will just be debating past each other, And this whole thing will simply be a waste of time.
Debate Round No. 2
Our_Boat_is_Right

Pro

So I see a big disconnect in what you and so many other people say.

You say that gender and sex are different. What you are saying is that gender refers to social roles and constructs, So boys can pretend to be girls, And girls can pretend to be boys. But. . . Those are both sexes, So in gender you can pretend to be a sex? There is a big disconnect in this.

Also, Facts are facts. You can pretend to be another sex, But that doesn't mean you are.

What if I identify as 60? Is there something wrong with that? Should there be an alternate term for "age" to fit in with what one person is pretending to be?
McSloth

Con

Well I would not say they are pretending to be anything, Pretending means to behave or do something as if something is true when you know that it is not, Especially in order to deceive people. Transponder people don"t claim to be another gender to deceive people. They truly believe in what they're doing and for the most part don"t care what other people think or say, So there"s no pretending to be another gender in that respect. Try talking to a transgender person and attempt to convince them to stop being transgender and see how well that goes. I don"t understand why so many people have this notion that transgender people are attempting to trick people and society at large, They are just people attempting to live in accordance with what they believe. None the less, To get back to the issue at hand, I propose a thought experiment, This might help you understand the need to differentiate between gender and sex. What makes a man a man? And I"m not talking about biological indicators here, In other words, How does a man know how to act like a proper man? Biology sadly gives us nothing in terms of ideas on proper womanhood and manhood, So that leaves culture and education. We learn how to be members of our sex through what we see and experience. So, If I see and experience different things then what you see and experience for example, Then I might come to believe that being a man and woman is something very different from your own ideas on gender, Correct? Say I flip the gender stereotypes and build a society where women are taught to be masculine and the men are taught to be feminine, Tell me, What would man"s gender be in such a society? He is biologically a man, But to us he acts like a woman no? Would we call him a man or woman? Gender is a complex issue and cannot be so easily explained by saying "gender and sex are the same, Therefore you are either a man or a woman". Two people can have very different ideas for what gender is based on their culture and what they were exposed to. And when transgender people say "I"m a girl" or "I"m a guy" what they really mean is that they have chosen to take on the attributes or behavior of a specific gender. They are not claiming to be another sex in other words, Just a different gender. I think the transgender community has definitely failed to make that clear and is a major issue I have and something I would encourage them to change. None the less, You are correct when you say there are only two sexes, And yes you can say you"re one sex but that doesn"t mean you are. But that gets into the whole topic of medical sex changes, But that is a completely different issue then the one at hand. And to answer your rhetorical question about age, Yes there would be something wrong with that because unlike the issue of gender, Age is a measurement of time and is easily quantifiable using numbers in the form of years. Gender is not as easily explained, As this debate has surely proven its complexity, And how that by saying that sex and gender are the same thing is simply inaccurate.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by DonnyBoi 3 days ago
DonnyBoi
@Flowz

Ah, I see.
Thank you for clearing that up.
Also, I agree with what you said. But if someone thinks they're a pony, I think they'll need to be evaluated by some doctors lol.
Posted by Flowz 3 days ago
Flowz
@DonnyBoi

Agreed. You have a right to think you are a unicorn for all I care. I think the debate is referring more to what others should/have to refer to you as and if it is "correct" to think you are a pony. You can think what ever you want. But as soon as you start expecting everyone to play into your fantasy then there is a problem.
Posted by DonnyBoi 3 days ago
DonnyBoi
This is a tricky topic.

Biologically, There are two genders. That's that, You cannot argue with that.
Mentally, You can be something else. You have that right.

So is this argument biologically, Or mentally?
Posted by Flowz 3 days ago
Flowz
With regards to round 1 Cons argument,

Gender and sex is the same thing. They are synonym's of each other.

Just because other cultures have/define different genders doesn't mean they are correct. There are many cultures that believe something that the western world knows is not true/correct/acceptable. The amount of people that believe in certain ideology does not make that ideology correct.
Posted by Nalex 3 days ago
Nalex
Two sexes, Male and Female, Therefore two genders, Man and Woman. Anything else is a genetic mishap/mistake/abomination. Transgenders have mental issues.
Posted by Masterful 3 days ago
Masterful
I cannot find another culture, Other than American culture, That believes in more than two genders. There is no scientific basis to say there is more than two genders.
Posted by Sonofcharl 3 days ago
Sonofcharl
Notwithstanding modern aberrations and physiological abnormalities, The gender or sex of human beings is either male or female.
No votes have been placed for this debate.