The Instigator
Our_Boat_is_Right
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
McSloth
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

There are ONLY TWO Genders: Change my Mind

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Our_Boat_is_Right
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/12/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 weeks ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 8,060 times Debate No: 118541
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (41)
Votes (2)

 

Our_Boat_is_Right

Pro

I believe there are only two genders/sex- biological man and women

Feel free to try and change my mind
McSloth

Con

Before delving into the issue at hand, We need to cover the problem with your definition of gender and of sex. They are two very separate things, And you cannot lump them together. While you are correct when you come to sex, Biologically there are only two sexes, Men and women respectively. You are quite wrong when it comes to the issue of gender. Gender is a social construct, Depending on someone's culture, Gender can mean very different things. Gender consist of what one particular culture deems appropriate in terms of roles, Behaviors, Activities, And attributes for men and women. I suggest you read Judith Lorber"s essay on the social construction of gender. Thus, As a society or culture changes and different ideas are introduced, And norms change, The definition of gender is also expected to change as well. So, With gender being specific to each culture, And there being numerous cultures on Earth, There cannot be one definition for gender.
Debate Round No. 1
Our_Boat_is_Right

Pro

According to science, Not wikipedia definitions, Gender and sex mean the same thing. Nothing can change your gender or sex. If you are a boy that pretends to be a girl, You are still a boy. Facts don't care about your feelings, I'm sorry.
McSloth

Con

Well according to sociologists, Gender and sex are two very different things, And to say they are the same is just plain inaccurate. This is a common misconception people have when it comes to gender and sex. Pick up a sociology text book or read any number of essays done by a sociologist and you will see that you must separate your ideas of gender and sex. Gender has nothing to do with biology, Because our ideas of what constitutes gender are nothing more than social constructions based on cultural variables, Which can change with time (as they have in the past). This debate has boiled down to an issue of definitions, And our lack of agreement when it comes to sex and gender. If you define sex/gender has the same thing, Then yes there would only be two forms, Man and woman. However, If you separate the two ideas, You cannot say there are only men and women, Because gender is culture specific. Gender is simply what a culture assigns to a specific sex, If you"re biologically a man, You need to act and do things this way. If you"re biologically a woman you need to act and do things this specific way. Let"s take the gender of a woman for example, If you go to different cultures around the world you will find many definitions for what constitutes a "proper woman", I think we can both agree on this notion at least, But if you go to different culture, You will find a completely different definition for what constitutes a "proper woman". In most western cultures, A woman is seen as an equal to a man, But head over to some eastern cultures, The woman plays a for more subservient role in the culture. As you can see these are two very different definitions of gender when it comes to women. Until we can agree on definitions, We will just be debating past each other, And this whole thing will simply be a waste of time.
Debate Round No. 2
Our_Boat_is_Right

Pro

So I see a big disconnect in what you and so many other people say.

You say that gender and sex are different. What you are saying is that gender refers to social roles and constructs, So boys can pretend to be girls, And girls can pretend to be boys. But. . . Those are both sexes, So in gender you can pretend to be a sex? There is a big disconnect in this.

Also, Facts are facts. You can pretend to be another sex, But that doesn't mean you are.

What if I identify as 60? Is there something wrong with that? Should there be an alternate term for "age" to fit in with what one person is pretending to be?
McSloth

Con

Well I would not say they are pretending to be anything, Pretending means to behave or do something as if something is true when you know that it is not, Especially in order to deceive people. Transponder people don"t claim to be another gender to deceive people. They truly believe in what they're doing and for the most part don"t care what other people think or say, So there"s no pretending to be another gender in that respect. Try talking to a transgender person and attempt to convince them to stop being transgender and see how well that goes. I don"t understand why so many people have this notion that transgender people are attempting to trick people and society at large, They are just people attempting to live in accordance with what they believe. None the less, To get back to the issue at hand, I propose a thought experiment, This might help you understand the need to differentiate between gender and sex. What makes a man a man? And I"m not talking about biological indicators here, In other words, How does a man know how to act like a proper man? Biology sadly gives us nothing in terms of ideas on proper womanhood and manhood, So that leaves culture and education. We learn how to be members of our sex through what we see and experience. So, If I see and experience different things then what you see and experience for example, Then I might come to believe that being a man and woman is something very different from your own ideas on gender, Correct? Say I flip the gender stereotypes and build a society where women are taught to be masculine and the men are taught to be feminine, Tell me, What would man"s gender be in such a society? He is biologically a man, But to us he acts like a woman no? Would we call him a man or woman? Gender is a complex issue and cannot be so easily explained by saying "gender and sex are the same, Therefore you are either a man or a woman". Two people can have very different ideas for what gender is based on their culture and what they were exposed to. And when transgender people say "I"m a girl" or "I"m a guy" what they really mean is that they have chosen to take on the attributes or behavior of a specific gender. They are not claiming to be another sex in other words, Just a different gender. I think the transgender community has definitely failed to make that clear and is a major issue I have and something I would encourage them to change. None the less, You are correct when you say there are only two sexes, And yes you can say you"re one sex but that doesn"t mean you are. But that gets into the whole topic of medical sex changes, But that is a completely different issue then the one at hand. And to answer your rhetorical question about age, Yes there would be something wrong with that because unlike the issue of gender, Age is a measurement of time and is easily quantifiable using numbers in the form of years. Gender is not as easily explained, As this debate has surely proven its complexity, And how that by saying that sex and gender are the same thing is simply inaccurate.
Debate Round No. 3
41 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by terri87 6 hours ago
terri87
Yup, you're either male, or female. NOTHING in between.
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 days ago
GuitarSlinger
There are only 2 sexes-- male and female. Historically, "gender" was used to represent the sex of an individual (i. E. Either Male or Female). Look at most, If not all forms, You would see either "Gender" or "Sex" used interchangeably, Where people would mark/circle an "M" for "male" or an "F" for "female". So, Gender had been understood to mean the sex of a person (male or female). But now, Probably in the last 10-15 years, Folks have tried to redefine words/language and get us to believe that "gender" means whatever that person thinks they are. It's ludicrous.
Posted by Vorhut 1 week ago
Vorhut
While Our_Boat_Is_Right is obviously a trolly debater. For McSloth the overabundance of words does not equate to victory, Especially when the opponent is just saying one liners.

While this was not really much of a debate, I would support the idea that gender and sex are not the same, Primarily because the word gender (or the current prominent definition) was coined in the 1950s, Sex is an identifier that is ingrained in science(Biology). So on a scientific basis, There are only two 'sexs' you can only be male or female, Only options really (And even if for those who are Trans can never remove those core identifiers XX, & XY). Gender is a coined term that is more associated with the field of Sociology(Which isn't very scientific and is rather based on observations of society. ) This is having negative effects on the field of Psychology especially when it comes to with Identity Disorders, Which is often when someone obsessively believes they are something/someone they are quite obviously are not, And it makes it difficult for Physiologists to treat these disorders effectively when addressing such issues can be considered bigoted and 'oppressive' (There's also something called "Oppressive Masochists" makes for an interesting study).

Now I also believe there are people who "identify" as a particular gender for other reasons (Trendy, Attention Seeking, Political/Social Gain, Etc) which detracts from actual people who actually have Identity Disorders. So a brief recap, Gender was coined in the last 70 years compared to the word 'sex' which is an established as a Biological identifier, Gender is a Social Construct and is 'not' Scientifically supported. So when it comes to the title of this debate "There are only two genders"; it is wrong there are not only two genders, There's an infinite amount, Because gender is a social construct and not biological in which there are only two sexes. So differentiating between the two is important to any debate surrounding it.
Posted by ConserativeDemocrat 1 week ago
ConserativeDemocrat
@Bourbon

I'm not referring to Pro's lack of usage of the term "gender roles", I'm referring to how Con fails to contextualize Pro's arguments as evidence of gender roles.
Posted by abigailh 1 week ago
abigailh
Our_Boat_is_Right clearly is basing the whole origin of his argument on Ben Shapiro. Although I agree with what he is saying, He didn't present his points properly. McSloth definitively won this debate as he actually put in effort and stated his points before additionally supporting them.
Posted by Our_Boat_is_Right 1 week ago
Our_Boat_is_Right
everybody has a bias. That is your opinion, And you are entitled to it. I am also disappointed with the vote on my side. The voter did not provide any basis for his vote. McSloth should have won.
Posted by Lovinity 1 week ago
Lovinity
I, Too, Would like to think the con side won this argument. I am very disappointed pro won, Not because I take the side of con, But because pro had poor argumentation for their side. Instead of backing their claims with substantial evidence, They used personal beliefs and closed-mindedness as arguments. The con side had much more convincing information and has appeared to done their homework than pro. And pro seems to have had no other purpose but to rub their personal beliefs onto others rather than engaging in an actual, Constructive debate.

Furthermore, I am disappointed in some of the pro-side comments as well, For they often demonstrate the same closed mindedness about this issue as the debater. This should be a clear sign that you are letting bias influence your decisions. Funny that you claim facts do not care about feelings, When you're using feelings to justify your stance (as evident by the lack of evidence and the bigger focus on the self and being intolerant of even considering another perspective).
Posted by Eris2005 2 weeks ago
Eris2005
Honestly I believe in only two genders, but I would like to think that McSloth won the debate since he had better sources, arguments, and conclusions. I have my own personal beliefs and reasons, but McSloth deserves the win.
Posted by McSloth 2 weeks ago
McSloth
So being transgender is equivalent to having a mental illness? Well the facts are they are not mentally ill, And facts don't care about your feelings. According to the American Psychological Association, Being transgender is not a mental order, Because
"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, Which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder" (APA, 2018).
Not to mention that World Health Organization has also ruled on this issue and has decided that being transgender is not a mental illness. In their latest edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11), Gender incongruence is not longer considered a mental health issue due to the lack of evidence linking mental illness and being transgender. Now the conversation is over.
Posted by joshg4963 2 weeks ago
joshg4963
The actual definition of gender is "the state of being male or female". Thus, There is two genders, And don't get me started on the mental illnesses, Because thinking that you're anything other than being what you were born as means that you have a pretty serious mental condition that I wish you the best on. The facts don't care about your feelings. Conversation over.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by ConserativeDemocrat 3 weeks ago
ConserativeDemocrat
Our_Boat_is_RightMcSlothTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: Fine on both sides. S&G: Fine on both sides. Sources: Neither side presents any, so it?s tied. Arguments: Con wins this handily. Pro?s main point is that there are only two sexes, and you can?t change your sex. Con explains why this isn?t true, explaining that gender and sex are different, that sex refers strictly to biology, while gender refers social/cultural roles. Pro?s argument is about sex specifically, not gender. Pro?s only rebuttal to this is ?What if I identify as 60? Is there something wrong with that? Should there be an alternate term for "age" to fit in with what one person is pretending to be?? Con?s rebuttal was effective, explaining that age is quantifiable, while gender isn?t, so you can?t compare the two. So, I give arguments to Con, due to Pro?s weak rebuttals to Con?s points.
Vote Placed by Pandanelephant2001 3 weeks ago
Pandanelephant2001
Our_Boat_is_RightMcSlothTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Amazing!