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ProtectionK9International
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The Contender
Adriaan
Con (against)
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There are Only Two Genders

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/6/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 4 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 361 times Debate No: 118867
Debate Rounds (3)
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ProtectionK9International

Pro

I believe there are only two genders, Scientifically speaking. Yes, I'm aware that Sociology (which isn't very scientific in and of itself) believes there are multiple meanings based on social constructs. But, With "expectations of how a sex should act socially" aside, I firmly believe that there are only two genders.

Mental health issues, Involving gender dysphoric individuals, Transgender, And sexually confused individuals, Are prevent and diagnosed at a much higher rate than that of sexually certain individuals. Thus, I feel that it is glaringly irresponsible to try and deny that there is not any psychological issue(s) of sorts, That are at play and at hand when talking about the gender dysphoric or transgender class. Not to mention the highly escalated rate of suicide that this particular class exhibits. I am not convinced that "it's everyone else in society that's got it wrong", And that it's the very tiny minority gender dysphoric class that the entire rest of society needs to conform to championing and propping up as if it is a completely normal function of the human psyche.

I do agree that society should not go out of their way to demonize, Harm, Or degrade this class of individuals. But, I also feel that this class needs to become comfortable with the fact that there are two genders, And that if they feel like the other (behavioral or social-wise) then that is fine and acceptable to do so, So long as they are truthful and realistically ware with themselves that they are still, At their core, The boy/girl that they were form as. Ie- a boy that likes girl things, Loves dressing like girls, And likes feminine things, Is still a boy nonetheless. There is nothing wrong with that. But, The moment that boy tries to delude down to the fact that "HE" is a "SHE", They're being dishonest with themselves physically, Even if emotionally or psychologically that is how they feel inside.

Change my mind, Because this is a fascinating topic to me. But, As of now, I just cannot get behind the notion that you can claim to "be whatever you want to be, Just because your mind makes you think you're 'that' is at the time" and it then it is supposed to become treated as if that belief is biological fact. This, To me, Would be akin to enabling delusions.

Note: This is of the assumption we're talking about the literal definition of what Gender means: "the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones)". Source: Dictionary
Adriaan

Con

What about intersex people?

"Intersex people are born with any of several variations in sex characteristics including chromosomes, Gonads, Sex hormones, Or genitals that, According to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit the typical definitions for male or female bodies". Such variations may involve genital ambiguity, And combinations of chromosomal genotype and sexual phenotype other than XY-male and XX-female. " - Wikipedia

So what if people are born with genital ambiguity or even other sexual phenotype than XX or XY? These are of course very rare scenarios but they would still proof that there aren't only two genders.
Debate Round No. 1
ProtectionK9International

Pro

When talking about intersex people, We're talking about defective fertility/a slip up in the process of you will, That results in extreme rarity as defective. Now, I'm not saying "defective" as if they don't belong and should be discarded as people/aborted. In other words, Defective isn't synonymous with rejected in my talking points.

With defective births, Such as someone with Down Syndrome, Or Being born without eyes, Or etc, Does not automatically give rise to third, Fourth, And fifth classes of people, It's just simply indicative if something going wrong at the physical level, This being detective.

Hermaphrodites born with both forms of anatomy still don't have two functioning forms of anatomy, Rather they have one functioning form or the other or none at all. As is can be seen when looking at studies of not a single case of individuals with both of all required parts and pieces to self impregnate or fully functioning parts and pieces, In complete, Of both sexes.

Reproduction occurs within humans due to two defined sexes. There is no third option for reproduction. Just as any detective human (on a physical level) cannot reproduce as whichever sex they choose to do so as. They either still reproduce as a male, Female, Or nothing at all. The "nothing at all" person isn't all of a sudden a new class within biological form, It's simply a person that something went wrong in the birthing process due to two incompatible genes merging, Or other elements that caused disfunction.

This is akin to when two scientists are sexually reproducing plants based on male and female plants. When one scientist realizes a plant doesn't have the reproduction capability of neither male or female, They don't automatically say "Eureka! We've discovered a third sex! ". They simply realize that something went wrong in the birthing process of that plant and that it has been rendered defective and they discard it. (Not saying we should discard 'defective' humans by no means. Just giving the example with another two-sex only, Organism).

Given that human beings reproduce sexually, Under male and female, As is the entire purpose of gender/sex to begin with, They are biologically either only male or female. Men are men, And women are women, Even though sociologically this does not mean they restrictively have to ACT like a man or woman. Men can very well have painted nails and love dressing up sexy in their latest female lingerie, And vice versa. But, They'll still only be capable of reproducing as a male or female. True hermaphrodites, With both sets of fully functioning sexual organs, Do not exist in human beings. There is no tertium quid. But, Even if there was, It would just further solidify the two sexes even more, Considering you can only measure the hermaphrodite by using male and female characteristics, And it would be a complete physical anomaly that resulted in defective genetic merging during the birthing process that still would be unable to impregnate ones self and produce another human capable of reproduction. Leaving only Male or Female as the two sexual genders available that can reproduce. Thus, There being only two genders/sexes.
Adriaan

Con

So are you saying that people born with two sets of non-functional sexual organs do not have a gender? Just because this group can not reproduce does not necessarily mean that these people have no gender. By the way, Whats the point of this debate if you define gender as "the state of being male OR female". This would per definition mean that there are only two genders, So there would be no counter argument possible. I think however that this definition is flawed as it would leave certain intersex people genderless. On the other hand you could argue that this doesn't matter too much since it only affects an extremely small part of the population.
Debate Round No. 2
ProtectionK9International

Pro

I am not, Even in the slightest, Suggesting that someone born intersex is "doesn't have a gender". I'm saying that someone born intersex is simply a result of defective development at some point in the prenatal process. As per their sex, They will still have either predominantly Male or predominantly female makeup, Thus how doctors determine their labeled sex in these very rare one-off scenarios. If we were to create individual sexes for every minuscule fractional mixture of the defects in the birthing process, There would have to be literally millions of classes of sex.

However, If we were to assign classes for every defective mixture of the two sexes, It would be an impossibility to assign sex at all whatsoever period, Because it would then start coming down to an infinite number of male vs female fractions of however far you desire to narrow it down to.

That is the exact point of the debate: that you can only be male or female, And why I'm so baffled by the assertion that "you can be dozens of other sexes/genders". You are also correct in the assessment of the very minuscule portion of the population that an intersex defect occurs in. Which, Is obviously a debate and argument all in its own (ie- should labels and society be upended and redefined over a minuscule fraction of society as a whole, Or etc. . )

If you're arguing definitions, Then it only comes down to how badly one wishes to mince words or how semantic they want to be about the interpretation of a word. Hence, Why I use the actual definitions of words as they're written in plain understanding (ie-without having to go to great lengths to bend meanings and etc, Or without having to try and use my own definition by saying I don't agree with a definition or whatnot).

But, At the end of the day, Even intersex people have a gender/sex that is either male or female once testing occurs to see what it is that they truly have going on under tyre surface of just a quick visual look of "oh, Try have both organs" or etc. They have either predominantly Male or predominantly female internal workings at the biological level, Which is when they are usually assigned their gender (unless the parents decide otherwise or whatnot, As I'm referring to common medical standards here, Not the "1 in a billion chance" standards. Because if we defined things, Literally ANYTHING, Based on every possible outcome, Defect, And scenario, Then NOTHING would have a real definition whatsoever. )
Adriaan

Con

I agree that it would be pointless to have an infinite number of male or female categories and especially the thing that is going on now that people give them self whatever gender category they want, Not even related to biology doesn't make much sense to me. So what about only one extra category for people that don't have predominantly male or female characteristics, But an even or close to even distribution. You can either give them a different category or call them genderless, But to simply say they are male or female would be untrue or at lest inaccurate. Yes you can say this is very rare anyways, But still these people need a category.

"if we defined things, Literally ANYTHING, Based on every possible outcome, Defect, And scenario, Then NOTHING would have a real definition whatsoever. "
- I disagree, I think you should define things to every possible outcome. If something falls outside of that definition, You either change the definition or acknowledge that it's different. So if you want to keep the definition that gender is the state of being either male or female, Then admit that a very small portion of the population is genderless.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by omar2345 5 days ago
omar2345
A woman transitioned to a man cannot fertilize a woman.

A man transitioned to a woman cannot develop eggs required for bearing offspring.

It is best to call them a trans-male or trans-female because it is not a full tranistion to the opposite gender.
Posted by McSloth 6 days ago
McSloth
Actually there is a very large amount of evidence that supports the idea that transgenderism has been around for centuries. We have both Roman and Greek writing that tells stories about men and women who claimed to be the opposite sex, And not to mention that the 18th century famous french diplomat Chevalier d"Eon, Was famous for being transgender. Doctors have been writing about transgenderism since the early 19th century, And that's true for doctors both in the United States and Europe. So to say transgenderism is a fad just incorrect.
Posted by billsands 6 days ago
billsands
other than hemafrodites or inter sex i think science agress, That all thsis modern sillyness over gender is just some fad
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