The Instigator
anc2006
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
zapshe
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

There are no definitive correct way to play a musical instrument

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/16/2019 Category: Music
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 511 times Debate No: 122705
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (76)
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anc2006

Pro

For example, If you master the throwery of the pebbles, Each one landing on a key that makes musical sounds on a piano, It might still sound better than a beginner who has wonder "hand form".

For example, People play violin on their shoulders, With a bow. But I can simply put the violin on my lap and play it as a hawaiian guitar, And still get good sound. The fact is bass Guitars make wonderful percussions https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=ulxoIly3jt4

Argue: the points you must prove include:
-there are definitive ways to play instruments, And if so, Describe one example with brief words.
-me playing violin on my lap is wrong
-the mastery of proper form of playing the instrument is necessary
zapshe

Con

Your claims show your lack of experience with instruments.

People don't play the violin up there because it looks nice, But so that they can reach all the strings with both hands and be able to vibrate them just right. You CAN'T achieve the same sound if it's on your lap. Not to say there aren't SOME things you could play on your lap, But you certainly won't be playing any pieces more complex than Hot Cross Buns or Mary had a Little Lamb. If you notice, They have their non-dominant hand moving along the strings and they have to move their hands in a specific way. The vibrations of their hands have to be done a certain way to create a certain sound - not something you could ever come close to doing right with it on your lap.

Now, Let's talk about instruments in general.

There are sometimes multiple ways to play the same instrument depending on the sound you want, But not the way you're thinking. Each way is to ensure the playability of the instrument depending on the kind of music you'll play.

If you think you can throw pebbles at a piano and make great music, Go ahead. But you'll have to buy a new piano when your done, And forget recording or live performances because the sound of the pebble hitting will be loud and obnoxious. The reason hand movement and positioning is so important is, Again, To be able to hit all the keys that are needed when playing. Being able to reach the strings/keys/holes/etc and allowing for the best sound is why these techniques exist to begin with. These techniques are NOT some old person's deluded whim, Wanting people to play it a certain way for the sake of tradition.

As someone who has played many instruments, You can certainly find certain songs and some parts of certain songs that you could play in many different positions/hand movements, But quality diminishes and your not in the most advantageous position to really have good control over the instrument. Moreover, Most songs will simply be IMPOSSIBLE to play while holding it differently.

Lastly, Let's talk about the one instrument we're born with, Our voices. As a singer, You simply CAN'T hit the higher notes if you're back isn't straight. If you're leaning down, Doing weird stuff, You're NOT hitting any high notes, At least not pleasantly. Moreover, Breathing technique is VITAL.

It may seem like a, "come on, How important can BREATHING technique REALLY be? " And the answer is, Breathing technique can make or break someone's entire career. If your chest goes up when you're breathing, You're doing it wrong. You breath and let your STOMACH go out. This gives you a stronger base to hit high notes. Unless the person naturally has a high range they can hit without effort, They WILL hurt their vocal cords trying to strain their voice to hit the higher notes without proper breathing technique. It's happened to me to an extent and stops many people's careers. Moreover, The quality of the note can change dramatically.

I'm a good singer, But I can sing - hit the notes - and do everything and sound like sh*t. These techniques help save your voice, Make it easier to sing, And make the quality of your singing voice improve by letting the notes come out the RIGHT way. For example, There's a difference between trying to go UP to hit a note (will probably voice crack and sound bad) and already starting at the TOP to hit the note. It's a difference in muscle control that requires mental practice - impossible to really achieve without proper technique.

They're not there so people can look "proper", They're there to make the musician play and sound right. Even people who like to do things their own way don't stray from the proper techniques. They can be a lot looser and relaxed with them (so they look less professional, More laid back), But the technique is still there because they can't play the instrument good any other way.
Debate Round No. 1
anc2006

Pro

Of course, My opponent claimed that the now-existing postures are for efficiency, But it basically is only a little less subjective consider, I am really comfortable to play guitar UPRIGHT ON THE STAND, Piano WHILE LAYING DOWN, And trumpet, Holding it upside down. These, Of course sounds good to me, And to someone else, And to the talent show.

While you argued that piano played with throwing pebbles are inefficient consider there are side noises, They are actually as efficient as the street performers who really play piano with rock pebbles and drumstick throwing back and forth, And still manage to sound good.

And plus, You just proved that there is an EFFICIENT way of playing instruments, But you didn't prove that there is a definitive correct way of doing so, Consider the lesser are forced to be influenced. I like playing guitar on my lap or upright, And it sounds nothing worse than i did with standard posture. Obviously, These are as correct to me. The skill of playing instruments is slightly subjective. You can't say someone is wrong when they play the piano with hands crossed, Only that the Original score does not say so, But sounds as good.

For example, When I was younger, I was practicing piano. The score says that this note is used by the 3rd finger. I always used the 4th fingers and my teacher ought to correct me until I do it with the 3rd finger. On the performance, I forgot and used the 4th finger, And no one noticed. Does it matter? Well at large, No; only for 1 technique, Yes. One missed finger doesn't make a lot of difference as long as it sounds as good. Give them opaque blinds, They won't even differ a 1-hand playing piece with the same notes, But with both hands. Or they won't differ the pure MIDI file played on a synth from a professional with both of her hands, With a mad talented man that threw rocks, Paperballs and woodchips from the sky.

So, The correct way to play an instrument is subjective. It is not like if I play it differently the piano will collapse and explode and burn.

And plus, The limitations of the "correct way" are indeed serious limitation. For example, An asian piano professor would yell to the mad street musician who is flexing and pleasing the crowd, Just because he isn't playing it the right way. The fact sacrilegious ways of playings might be a trend in the future consider, You know, Because classical techniques will not handle the contemporary music at some point, And the latter will eventually become a trend. The fact is the same thing why the mainstream goes for pop and rap, Instead of classical. If a girl just play Bach as what it is intended to be, Then the crowd will be silent. But if the same person played it with blindly thrown pebbles, Then the crowd will be amazed. Is the latter "correct"? Maybe not. It is acceptable? Yes. The fact is that the further it is from the norm, The people are going to be more amazed, And limiting them just makes the music less enjoyable. Are cars transportation tools? Yes. Is dragsters used as it is? Nah. But most people would rather go to a dragster meet rather than a segment of I-33 highway.

not all of the techniques are for them to sound good. How good is a chicken playing piano? Not really. How much does it amaze? A lot. We are indeed already disobeying the rules that is not even tend to exist. And that, Does throwing pebbles from the sky have any relevance to the standard way of playing piano? Barely any. But do both of them sound good? Yes. And it is not inefficient by much consider it is made to be "inefficient" to amaze the culture.

and if you argue, "that won't be possible", Then, Who'd imagine a modern synth, If they are at the age level of John Adams? Modern problems require modern solutions, And because of that, The "definitive" correct way will change, Leaving the correct way to play it not definitive at all.

Argument done.
zapshe

Con

"But it basically is only a little less subjective consider, I am really comfortable to play guitar UPRIGHT ON THE STAND, Piano WHILE LAYING DOWN, And trumpet, Holding it upside down. "

Good for you, But you'll sound like sh*t. Play the guitar on a stand and it'll fall when you're playing something complex and fast because you'll apply a lot of force that you can't balance on your own body. Play the piano laying down and I can't even begin to imagine the placement of the piano. If it's hanging above you, Then you're still in proper form, Just at a different angle. Hold the trumpet upside down, You could probably use your thumbs and play something very simple - but we both know you wouldn't be able to reach all the holes and so most songs you could play are off the table.

"They are actually as efficient as the street performers who really play piano with rock pebbles and drumstick throwing back and forth"

I haven't seen it, But I doubt they're playing anything complex. Or at the very least, They're not playing the piano with pebbles as you'd have be envision. But in the end, You're arguing something stupid. Everything you're saying is literally just using the instrument in proper form but with some kind of twist. "I'll hold the trumpet properly. . . But upside down! "

It's like arguing the best way to throw darts is to turn your back and toss it behind your back. Sure, You can get lucky. You might even be able to practice enough that you can hit the board every time (from a certain position and you'd do it from muscle memory). But as soon as a factor changes, You need hit a SPECIFIC spot, Perhaps multiple times or with a certain accuracy, You can't do that anymore. Same with this. Not that the instruments won't produce sound if you play them in some uncanny way, But you're limiting either what notes you can reach, You're own breathing technique, Or how fast and precise you can move your fingers to play.

If you can show me a video of someone playing a complex piano piece without sitting down, Or someone playing the guitar the way you claim possible but while playing something more complex than a single chord - then come find me.

"And plus, You just proved that there is an EFFICIENT way of playing instruments, But you didn't prove that there is a definitive correct way of doing so"

I said that the proper techniques ARE those efficient ways. There are many people who are mainstream and like to go against the flow and stuff like that. People who want to revolutionize music. However, They don't (cause they can't) change the technique of how they play the instrument. There was one person who played the piano in a completely different way. What use to be classical he turned into rock, But he was still using the correct technique! Taylor Swift was using the right technique for God's sake. Hand positioning on the guitar depends on you and what you're going to play - the way you hold the guitar is the indisputable part.

"I like playing guitar on my lap or upright, And it sounds nothing worse than i did with standard posture. Obviously, These are as correct to me. "

I can only assume you're a beginner and haven't done any complex anything.

Take this for example:

https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=U6Og9wtO9jE

There's a bassline here where the guy split it into 3 parts. The easy, Hard, And impossible parts. The easy part you could probably play without looking while the guitar is hanging from a string. The hard part, You'd need proper form. The impossible part, You'd need impeccable form to play the complexity with that speed.

"Only that the Original score does not say so, But sounds as good. "

For the final time, I don't care about whether or not you sound good playing Mary had a Little Lamb. It's about actually being ABLE to play. The backwards techniques that don't allow you to play the piano correctly are only gonna allow you to play certain simple songs. You're basically arguing, "I can play the guitar with my lips! " Yea, Sure, I don't care. I could play the guitar with my shoes. Now, Could you keep that sh*t technique and play something that's ACTUALLY complex and not practically half a cord? No, You couldn't.

"On the performance, I forgot and used the 4th finger, And no one noticed. Does it matter? Well at large, No;"

I don't know what piece you played, But the whole point of using the 3rd finger is because complex pieces will need you to use basically all of your fingers like a madman. If your busy using the 4th finger to play something the 3rd can do, Then how can you play a complex piece that calls for literally every finger to be playing a note? THAT'S why technique matters. Not because it was do-or-die in that one piece (which I'm sure was pretty easy), But because a bad habit like the one you have will get in your way if you play something like Fantaisie Impromptu - where the 4th finger is way out playing further away keys while you're bad habit makes you want to put them inside to play the notes of the 3rd finger.

Either way, Hand positioning is just to have you be able to play the keys being allowing you to be able to REACH them and do so quickly. If you feel more comfortable one way, Sure go ahead. But bad habits will stop you from being able to play (or compose - since many imagine the way they themselves would play it) certain pieces. In either case, You're still not bending over backwards to play the piano. And I highly doubt you could have played whatever it was you did if hand and finger usage wasn't something you knew.

"Give them opaque blinds, They won't even differ a 1-hand playing piece with the same notes, But with both hands. "

That's like saying, "Go to the moon by jumping to reach terminal velocity. " You've made an IMPOSSIBLE suggestion. You're saying that as if someone COULD ACTUALLY SOMEHOW play all the notes with one hand. Please, Play a few Mozart pieces for me with one hand. Go ahead, Do it for me.

"So, The correct way to play an instrument is subjective. It is not like if I play it differently the piano will collapse and explode and burn. "

Subjective. . Maybe in terms of comfort. In terms of actually playing, There's no argument. Using proper technique allows for the quickest positioning and the best flexibility to play complex pieces without utterly failing.

"An asian piano professor would yell to the mad street musician who is flexing and pleasing the crowd, Just because he isn't playing it the right way. "

I've yet to see a street performer use the wrong technique. Sure, They mix it up, Perhaps do a few uncanny things, But the overall form is just another version of the proper technique. If they can play, So be it. They're not playing complex pieces, They play popular pop songs. With proper technique, You can play the vast majority if not all pieces. With some made up technique, You can play a small percentage. In fact, Using a made up technique usually means the person changes there form several times in order to actually be able to play the different parts.

I got tired and didn't read the bottom paragraph or so. But I assume you said the same things.

Again - Proper technique is to be able to play efficiently and sound good. If you can sound good a different way, Sure, Go ahead. But will whatever your doing allow you to sound good on all pieces? Or are you going to sound like you're struggling because you're too far from the notes you need to hit or can't reach them at all? Like I've been saying from the start. You can find a few songs, Or parts of some songs, That you can play without proper technique. But for each of those, There are a hundred songs you couldn't play using the same technique. And you said you could play the piano lying down. Well, Maybe after you've mastered the song with the proper technique. Come back when you can get the sheet music and learn a complex song lying down. I don't even know how you'd position the piano.

Argument Done.
Debate Round No. 2
anc2006

Pro

As like you did, I will use refutes as well.

"Good for you, But you'll sound like sh*t. Play the guitar on a stand and it'll fall when you're playing something complex and fast because you'll apply a lot of force that you can't balance on your own body. Play the piano laying down and I can't even begin to imagine the placement of the piano. "

Who gives a damn if I sounds like a pile of human defecation? The fact is that at least I can do that to satisfy myself myself, While I doubt you will ever do that, Consider your descriptions show that you cannot use any ways to play an instrument other than the most bland one.

And I have to remind you what to prove: throwing pebbles to pianos to make music as beautiful and as funny and as epic, Is still wrong. The fact is that most people use the proper form doesn't make it the only correct way, Just like millions of PC players doesn't make gaming the only purpose of the computer. Saying it isn't correct because no one will ever do it isn't complete, Since I can just be an ultimate virgin and practice the skill for decades, And amaze the world myself. This is like: oh yeah no one had reached mars before, So it will NEVER be an ethical choice(even if humanity is evolved enough)!

"I haven't seen it, But I doubt they're playing anything complex. "

I don't. Playing piano with crazy stunts will amaze the world even if you played only a twinkle of a star. Not saying I am or I will, But there are such people. Does playing with feet count as "proper"? Not really. Https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=sZjS2CY_oPE But there are such techniques, And it sounded as good as one by hand properly.

and plus, I don't make people play like bizzare. I accept both ways, Unusual and proper. I like to play usually as much as I love to play it like a mad lad.

"It's like arguing the best way to throw darts is to turn your back and toss it behind your back. "

You are arguing as if throwing darts backwards are illegal. And I argue not the best, But acceptable.

"If you can show me a video of someone playing a complex piano piece without sitting down, Or someone playing the guitar the way you claim possible but while playing something more complex than a single chord - then come find me. "

https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=tqHSmSxr10s
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=2oWrmKcOQRc

"What use to be classical he turned into rock, But he was still using the correct technique! "

Remember, You must prove that the proper way of playing it is the ONLY correct way to do so. And I am not against proper ways of doing so. The man that did played the piano the different way didn't change the way it is played majorly, He just did change what is wrong to something not wrong. This thus makes it having more than 1 correct way to do so, Which makes the correct way to play it---include the proper way, Not 100% definitive. I a not arguing as if that the proper way should be forbidden.

"I can only assume you're a beginner and haven't done any complex anything. "

I can only assume you're a salty, Selfish and overly conservative musician and haven't tried any actual creativity on such topic.

"The backwards techniques that don't allow you to play the piano correctly are only gonna allow you to play certain simple songs. "

1. It is based on stereotypes. And you remembered what went on in the nerd vs popular kids debate?
2. How do you know it is not possible? No one had ever played something as hard as Paganini before his time, And now violinists are flexing this way. Flexing an be done on drums when you throw the sticks, And oh boy is that proper? No. Is it worthy? Yes.

"You've made an IMPOSSIBLE suggestion. "

that is different. You are comparing something that can be possible with something practically impossible. It can be awkward and you will hear that it is played by a single hand. But that you will argue, That is impractical and incorrect! Well, Music isn't all about seriousness. Compare one music from tom&jerry to one of Mozart, Which one is more elegant? The latter. Which one would get more views? The former.

"Subjective. . Maybe in terms of comfort. In terms of actually playing, There's no argument. Using proper technique allows for the quickest positioning and the best flexibility to play complex pieces without utterly failing. "

saying this is like:" oh yeah, Because playing video games stops us from learning, So we should learn 24/7 and ban ourselves from gaming! " and you know how asian moms turned out. This is basically saying because playing this way it is good, So the other ways will be wrong without examination! Yes I agree that the proper way it the best, But that doesn't mean the other ways are just plain stupid.

"Come back when you can get the sheet music and learn a complex song lying down. I don't even know how you'd position the piano. "

Do I have the need to? You've made the learning of the piano difficult, Making something suggestive so something forced.

***
So far I have refuted all of your points.
"the proper way is the most efficient"---> doesn't make it the ONLY correct one
"the proper way can do what the non-proper way can't"---> the latter can have what the former doesn't: make the crowd go crazy with only a few notes
"Technique matters a lot"--->the non-proper way requires more techniques, And that is really why people use the proper form
"everything existing played good enough is a variation of the proper way"---> well with enough technique, The non-proper way can do enough

Argument done.
zapshe

Con

"Who gives a damn if I sounds like a pile of human defecation? The fact is that at least I can do that to satisfy myself myself"

If your standards of playing an instrument is to satisfy yourself, You could call not playing the instrument a valid way of playing the instrument. It has NOTHING to do with you, It's about whether or not you can actually play the instrument to play the notes as needed, Not whether or not you like the way you can't even keep time because your way to far from the notes.

"While I doubt you will ever do that, Consider your descriptions show that you cannot use any ways to play an instrument other than the most bland one. "

The most "bland one" is the way any musician I've seen plays the instruments. Do you want to play the music or look like it's your first day holding an instrument?

"And I have to remind you what to prove: throwing pebbles to pianos to make music as beautiful and as funny and as epic, Is still wrong. "

You're arguing a fallacy. IF someone could play the piano perfectly by throwing pebbles (and somehow the sound of pebbles hitting the keys was eliminated by magic), Then sure. There's still a proper way to do it, Since most people can't play the piano this way, But for this individual that would be just fine.

The fallacy part of your argument is that it's impossible. The whole point of there being a "CORRECT" way to play an instrument is because any other methods are less efficient for allowing the player to play music efficiently - which means they can reach all the notes and do so within a small window of time.

Saying, "What if someone can play the piano perfectly by throwing pebbles! ? " is like me saying, "Well what if someone can play the piano by using their mind! ? " - it's a logical fallacy because people can't do that - hence why proper technique and form is important.

"Playing piano with crazy stunts will amaze the world even if you played only a twinkle of a star. "

I said before, Proper form has nothing to do with public opinion, But actually being able to play the damn instrument.

"You are arguing as if throwing darts backwards are illegal. And I argue not the best, But acceptable. "

Not illegal, Impossible to do effectively - which is why there's proper technique. Because all other ways are wastes of time and energy and won't even deliver the results you'd want.

"I can only assume you're a salty, Selfish and overly conservative musician and haven't tried any actual creativity on such topic. "

Conservative musicians would be those who only want to hear certain instruments played a certain way to produce certain music genres. Someone who wants to play the violin by holding it upside down and using their forearm strength as their base isn't being creative, They're being stupid. It's like saying, "What? You don't eat half an apple then throw the rest in the garbage and you're not open to doing that? WHAT AN APPLE CONSERVATIVE! " - It's just called not being an idiot.

"So far I have refuted all of your points. "

Not even close.

""the proper way is the most efficient"---> doesn't make it the ONLY correct one"

There can be multiple proper forms depending on the instrument. The issue with you is that I don't know what you want to call "correct" anymore. I define correct as being efficient enough that you can play music with that technique and not screw up or have to change position or things of the sort. You define it as being able to produce sound from the instrument at all. I always knew you had low standards, But f*ck man.

""the proper way can do what the non-proper way can't"---> the latter can have what the former doesn't: make the crowd go crazy with only a few notes"

Again, Not about social opinion but the ability to produce music. An instrument is for making music - that's what the techniques are for. Not for showing off that you can strum chords with your 6 pack.

At this point, Your argument is just you being mentally retarded. Perhaps I'll see you in the shadow realm.
Debate Round No. 3
76 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by backwardseden 3 weeks ago
backwardseden
Well we both got cut off due to the DDO malfunction. Right now I'm gonna take my nap and then I have a docs appt. Tomorrow.
Posted by anc2006 3 weeks ago
anc2006
I feel like the topic completely changed.
Posted by zapshe 4 weeks ago
zapshe
I listened to the sex pistols to see what you were talking about. Drummer sat at the drum seat and played, Guys had their guitar/bass around their neck, Singer was singing (there is a right and wrong way to sing in order to reach notes and not ruin your voice, Not to sound good - correct singing technique doesn't mean you'll sound good if you naturally don't). Again, Nothing about what they're doing is bad technique.

"Now some musicians are totally incapable of playing complicated music parts. But yeah, They can compose it. "

Yea, That's different.

"There"s no possible way of knowing this if"
1. You don"t care.
2. You"re improvising and you are not a well refined musician.
3. Especially if you are using newly invented instruments.
4. Your sound system is off as it is a multitude of times as let"s say the drums drown everything out if you are performing live. "

So you don't care and throw pebbles to "play" the piano or use your teeth to strum guitar strings? At what point are you just making noise and not playing anything? Some people say "anything" can be music, But that's not true. Music requires something, Like a melody. Either way, Even if you want to sound like your just making noise and not music, Are you going to be a mindless brute and beat your instruments? Or actually know how to play whatever disturbing thing you call music and hold the instrument correctly so you can play it? If you're improvising, Are you going to throw pebbles and use your teeth, Or hold the instrument in the proper way so all you're worried about is improvising and not whether or not your finger will make it to the string?

"Well nobody can properly play Mozart. You can try, But you won"t succeed. "

Certainly not if you're throwing pebbles are the piano. And he couldn't without proper form.
Posted by zapshe 4 weeks ago
zapshe
"Well again for me to compose my music, Its not based on rests, Sharps, Flats, Time signatures, Notes etc. Its based on math and sound. "

Again, This is why I think you're not arguing with me what you think you are. You can compose music and not know how to read or write music. You can play some amazing, Out of this world, Compositions that are unlike any other. You could make write music that is simply against all the rules and is amazing. Now, To play that music, You need to use the instrument correctly. The more complex the music you're going to play, The more correct technique is important. If you're not holding the guitar correctly, How can you possibly hope to play anything with complexity? If you throw pebbles at a piano, How could you even possibly hope to make a melody? And if your intention is to sound bad, At least do so with correct technique. What's the point of going out of your way to play an instrument wrong? Because playing it wrong IS going out of your way. You're distancing yourself from the technique which allows you the best positioning to reach all the notes you need and in a timely manner. The whole reason it's the "correct" technique is because playing the instrument any other way LIMITS you.

You argue as if the correct technique is somehow limiting. The whole point of the correct technique is for you to have as much control over the instrument as possible!

"Ummm no not really. According to who and or what, And how? "

Let's say you want to play with a calculator. Do what you want, No right or wrong. Now, If you want to use the calculator to. . . Calculate (maybe? LOL! ), Then there's a right and wrong way to do so. If you try to do division with the wrong order of numbers, You'll get the wrong answer.
Posted by backwardseden 4 weeks ago
backwardseden
and thus you can turn them into trillions. But its A LOT more that drum sounds. If interested, The website is www. Propellerheads. Se
god do I sound like a salesperson? YIK.

Well on that note, My brain is freed, Oh sorry, Fried. So let me get all of this mess off.
Please tc and haveth thee fun -Michael
Posted by backwardseden 4 weeks ago
backwardseden
"The Wall, Not faked at all. All real and quite astonishing"
Do you even know who Roger Waters is?
"Train your ears. Hearing someone singing from their mouth to your ears is 1000% different than hearing it through their mouth into a microphone and out some speakers. "
Exactly. That"s NOT faking it. How do you sing to 50, 000 people per night and NOT use mics and amps and speaker systems? Oh and btw, In the studio, Roger Waters/ Pink Floyd were true masters of FX as they revolutionized music, All of it. Lyrically as well.

"Well then don"t say that concerts are doctored up, When they are not"
Its not doctoring up anything to produce what they"ve done in the studio to perform it live. Now if they can make it sound better, Sure, Why not. That"d be rare though. But I don"t know it you"d call it "doctoring", I think you could call it something like just a better sound system.
To give you an idea, My software program, When it first started out had very little as compared to what it has today. Just the bare basics. This was way back in 2002 or something like that when I first got it. It had a very simple reverb, Phase shifter, Mixing board, Drum machine, And a subtractor analog synthesizer. That was 1. 1. Now is at 10. 4 and I in being extra cheap because I live at the poverty level, I have the "intro" version in which only cost $100. But still its a phenom program that I bought a couple of months ago, Its hard to get my feeling back into it, But I just completed my first new song in probably 4 years and guess what? Whenever I open anything up are automatically attached to the mixing board are 3 reverb effects, And a ping-pong delay. That"s not something that is "doctored" up. This is part of the natural program by the advancement of sound.
I use Reason. If interested, You can literally compose symphonies with it. To give you an idea, You literally have probably 5, 000 different drum sounds alone and during each song you can manipulate them should you wish and
Posted by backwardseden 4 weeks ago
backwardseden
"You don't get it. They're not "faking it" live, They're being mixed and mastered on the fly to sound good. It's not lip syncing, It's not rhythm adjustments, It's just a straight chain of FXs, Like autotune. "
I get it just fine. Remember I took 1 " year of audio. Every single one, Everyone, No exceptions, No concert that I have ever been to does not do what you have just claimed. Its for different reasons. Among those reasons are it depends on where you are playing. If it a p[lace that outdoors, Your system has to adjust to that. Then it has to adjust to how many people are there so the sound is concise and clear in which is rarely if ever does because the engineers are more concerned with the banging on the drums more than anything. I really don"t understand why, But that"s life. Of course indoors is another ball of wax. Especially with the shape of the place. How many people are there? How does sound, The acoustics bounce off the walls in comparison with what that artist and or band/ symphony is going to be playing etc etc etc. Then if you are Einsturzende Neubauten its a completely and totally different ball of wax from everybody else because the difference in just a couple of degrees from city to city totally changes the pitch of your instruments and you have to be prepared for that. Since they"ve been together since 1980, They are. Now let"s see how Deep Purple sounds in perhaps the very best place they can possibly play here in Orlando on the 26th of Sept?
And btw, Melt Banana is filled with nothing but FX and button pushing and pedals and wah wahs and reverbs and fuzz boxes and the guitar player must have had at least 12 boxes at his feet. How to correctly pick and choose which ones to correctly play in perfect sync with each other was pure mastery. One guy from this country (MB is from Japan btw) was filming nothing but his feet. Yeah. I"m sure he learned more than a thing or two.
Posted by backwardseden 4 weeks ago
backwardseden
"I'd like to see someone play a solo with their teeth on stage, " Oh that"s easy. Jimi Hendrix did it with his guitar all the time.
"Or by throwing pebbles at a piano. "
That"s easy also. John Cage did it and so does Einstruzende Neubauten.
"It's not about whether or not you can get sound, But if you can actually play a piece or not. "
Now you are REALLY confusing because dare someone try this to a concerto by Mozart? That"s a contradiction.

Isn"t it GREAT when you can slap something together in 5 minutes and its actually a fricken song? Some of my songs are like that. Of course, They are not finished. I have to put more drum beats behind them, Tweak the mixing, Put spfx such as reverb or phase shifting etc etc, But the basic melodies are there.

"Why? Because its original. "
John Cage 4:33 there was no playing of the piano. The so-called "pianist" just sat there and with each movement he just timed it and turned the page of the sheet music.

"Either way, It's not something I'm actively doing. "
Uggg, Why not?

That"s good that you have at least one genuine friend. I"ve got 5. But you know what"s so sad to me is especially on DDO and in real life is how many do not have any genuine friends. Its so easy to spot. Its pretty easy for me to read people"s tells.

Yeah. Duh. I"m very interested in film. Its a good way not only to escape ad have a good time but also to learn about things.

"Inexperienced hell yes. "
In what?
In life. You"re only 20. You"ve got a long long long life ahead of you. Or at least I hope so. And I truly hope that you never, Ever, In any possible way have to go through, And or see what I"ve seen, Not only with my eyes, But with others eyes.

"You don't get it. They're not "faking it" live, They're being mixed and mastered on the fly to sound good. It's not lip syncing, It's not rhythm adjustments, It's just a straight chain of FXs, Like autotune. "
Posted by backwardseden 4 weeks ago
backwardseden
"And there"s something wrong with that - because? "
Because you can't play Mozart like that.
Well nobody can properly play Mozart. You can try, But you won"t succeed. One of my lifelong friends who knows one helluva lot more about music by far than you and I put together, He truly hates Mozart, Loves jazz. I can"t remember what he called Mozart?
But if you want to hear the so-called "new Mozart", Listen to Alma Deutser.

So I get it, What you are saying is to give up without trying. That"s not a very good way to approach things in life.
Mozart was a true prodigy if there ever was one. There were only a handful of composers from around the world that are ever recognized as being great with their mega talent for their gifts of composing in today"s society who probably cannot even be counted on 10 fingers and toes. Its why they are remembered.
What you are saying is for every single person, Correct lil ole me if I am misinterpreting, Out there who do not match their and your ideals of how to particularly play an instrument is to simply give up. Um nope. What I"m going to do is change the rules of that miserable idea that you hold and do something different to the very best of my ability and be original. And damn it, No! The very last thing I want is to be remembered though a lot do. Its what causes their downfall nearly 100% of the time.

But what if you can"t read sheet music, What then? "
You missed the point and sorry that I wasn"t clear. My miss-steak. What if you only have a super cheap cassette player and or a computer, Oh say like mine, Or say of you do not hear dynamics, And you cannot keep time worth a damn etc etc etc? What then?

"Whether or not the solo was improvised or done correctly, I'm sure they used the instrument properly. "
Not if they are beginners and there are constant cracks not only in the solos, But in the actual music.
Posted by backwardseden 4 weeks ago
backwardseden
Then Graeme took out a huge steel, Not a rod, Something bigger, Took a chainsaw and started to spray the audience with sparks. To musically endure the audience with pain is something I"ve thought of, But to physically endure the audience with pain is something I"ve never even considered. THEY WERE GREAT. Now how do you properly play those instruments? Btw, This way way back in 1987. And Graeme"s first soundtrack was Dead Calm and he"s never looked back using a stunning variation of not only compositions, But of instrumentations. The Crow (a truly great soundtrack), Strange Days, Titan A. E. Sin City etc etc etc
I"m not all that familiar with Danny Elfman except for the fact that he"s done a stunning array of soundtracks from Beetlejuice to Midnight Run (a great film that is so much fun), Men in Black, Taking Woodstock etc.
You know what? Ennio Morricone BY FAR outdoes everybody. He"s composed over 400 soundtracks. Now how does somebody do that? He"s composed All the Eastwood Dollar films, Once Upon a Time in the West (clearly one of the greatest films of all time), To yep, The Hateful Eight. He certainly will be remembered.

"If you like the sound, That's subjective. "
Yes it is. I"ve long since stated that.
"If they're playing the correct notes and are on time with correct dynamics, That's objective. The latter case needing proper form to actually be able to do. "
There"s no possible way of knowing this if"
1. You don"t care.
2. You"re improvising and you are not a well refined musician.
3. Especially if you are using newly invented instruments.
4. Your sound system is off as it is a multitude of times as let"s say the drums drown everything out if you are performing live.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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