The Instigator
billsands
Pro (for)
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The Contender
CliGan
Con (against)
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There are successful left wing models

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/1/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 571 times Debate No: 118800
Debate Rounds (3)
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billsands

Pro

I was looking at articles on Economy in the Economist magazine. Venezuela is often used as an example of a failure of left wing ideas, I suppose it is, It definetely is a failed state a disaster run by leftists, No doubt. But are there any societies that show left wing ideas can work? Do the Nordic nations show that, Or red China? Or do they only succceed because they are leftist societies that have adopted moderate centrist policy. . I would use Uraguay as an example of a society run by left wing parties that has over the past 15 years done very well. They legalize Gat marriage, Abortion, Legalized weed, And preside over stable and democratic economy that does very well compared to its neighbors without becoming fascistic as Brazil just did Uraguay spends alot on social programs has a solid social security system but provides incentives for business growth. . It may not be socialist in any real way. . But it is a sustainable model that works very well. . And is an exmple of how to apply leftish values in a practical way
CliGan

Con

Countries who accepted the morality of the left means success for you, Is alright - no arguments there. Since when looking at morality - it's only relative: If you believing gay marriage is good then you think it is a success, But if I say "I don't believe in gay marriage" then to me it's not a success. Though morality doesn't exactly tell a country if it's successful or not. To me it is the Economic and foreign policy.

"Uruguay spends a lot on social programs has a solid social security system but provides incentives for business growth. "

Yes your statement might be true, But Uruguay is also like the Nordic nations that aren't exactly socialist and comparing those two I think Uruguay is somewhat more in the capitalist side and small in the socialist side. . . Here's a quote from an article:

Mujica points out that his government has opted for a middle ground, Favoring private sector projects to spur economic growth and modest interventions to distribute wealth. "The numbers speak for themselves", Says Oya Celasun, The mission chief in Uruguay for the International Monetary Fund.

This states that they only modestly intervene to distribute wealth which is totally not socialism (Since the government didn't own those companies). . . But more like a capitalist country with somewhat a 10% corporate tax increase. And they only have a small portions of social programs on Uruguay which explains their 10% to 25% tax there. . . That explains their unemployment in their country. Which is totally opposite from being a socialist country in which there are 45% tax to those people living in those type of countries especially the rich.

". . . Or do they only succceed because they are leftist societies that have adopted moderate centrist policy"

Yes.

"It may not be socialist in any real way. . But it is a sustainable model that works very well. . And is an exmple of how to apply leftish values in a practical way"

No, The fact that they have small socialist economic policy and greater in capitalistic policy clearly proves that the socialist policies or the left economic policies are clearly not sustainable.

You might think that it is a success because they are applying socialistic ways and they succeeded, But remember those countries you mentioned applied a greater capitalistic policy than socialistic policy. . . Now the question is. . . What if they truly apply the Socialist policies? Isn't not sustainable? . . . Look at Brazil and Venezuela, They are an example of failed states that applied socialist economic policies. . . Now look at those countries who truly applies the capitalistic policies and values, Like Singapore. . . Their unemployment rate is 2. 0%. . Lower than those countries that you have mentioned. . . That's why to me Even changing the socialist economic policy it won't truly be a sustainable economic system.

https://www. Gov. Sg/factually/content/unemployment-in-singapore

https://internationalliving. Com/countries/uruguay/taxes/

marcapaisuruguay. Gub. Uy/en/fortune-uruguay-unexpected-champion-capitalism/
Debate Round No. 1
billsands

Pro

I did not say socialist policies are now more successful i said the left or progressive, All systems are and have always a combination of socialist and capitalist state and private, All systems are that way, To claim that in order to claim victory we have to make some old traditional socialist models work is a straw man argument, Thats just the opposite of what i claimsed, What i said we have found models that provide a quality of life on objective standards are the best on the world, The nordic nations top the scale on all sorts of objective standards livability quality of life, Business frinedly ness individual freedom a long list i don't have to find a model of old socialism that works they did not what i am seeing is if you are digging a hole if you practicing policies that don't work you find new ones, I don't have to call them socialism, They don't have to be socialist, All the have to do is create a prosperouse egalitarian society that provides opportunity and care for all citizens, And i have mationed that such socieities exist actually the nordic nations are very socialist to this day labout protections codeterrmination the fact that about one in 3 workers are employed by the state many state run companies


CliGan

Con

CliGan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
billsands

Pro

If you look at facts places like Sweden and the other nordics are good places to do business, Good places for innovation, Very egalitarian and score very high even in conservative index of individual freedom, As does uraguay great place for business that cares also for its people. . There are good left wing models
CliGan

Con

CliGan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
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