The Instigator
Pro (for)
6 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

There is no biblical reason the Boy Scouts of America should not be allowed to meet in a church

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/1/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 878 times Debate No: 41503
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)




This argument presupposes the Bible is inerrant as well as authoritative; Please consider this when taking the con, this is NOT a debate on homosexuality.

There is no biblical reason the BSA should not be allowed to meet in a church. I present the following three reasons with scripture to qualify this position:

1.) "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23- We run a dangerous gauntlet when we allow ourselves as Christians to feel we cannot interact with sinners. The argument presumes that homosexuality is a sin. If this is true, then homosexuals, like the rest of us, fall short of the glory of God. If the argument is that one cannot meet at a church because they are a sinner, then the church should be completely empty.

2.) "And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17- By removing the BSA because they have allowed openly gay boys to be scouts, haven't we turned away the sick? Do we turn away adulterers? liars? gossipers? The response as a church that we give by this decision says "you can be a certain kind of sinner, but some sinners, we just cant accept "those kinds of sinners". This is contrary to the entire concept of soteriology. Jesus accepts all sinners, but His believers will not? This is simply unacceptable.

3.) "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."
2Peter 3:9
While I will admit that "hate the sin not the sinner" is a clich"" that does not apply to God as it is theologically correct for Him to hate the sin and the sinner, "we as Christians, remain imperfect in our humanity and cannot love perfectly, nor can we hate perfectly (in other words, without malice). But God can do both of these perfectly, because He is God."(S. Haulgood) We, in our fallen state cannot hate without malicious intent and therefore cannot hate human beings for their actions. This is the same reason we can allow sinners in our midst and still love them in our congregations.

We as humans simply cannot treat certain sinners different from others. Jesus Christ came to love all (John 3:16) and so we must as well. Allowing the BSA to continue in our churches only drives home the point that although we may disagree with their actions, we love them anyway.


The official boy scouts of America are not affiliated with any religious organization. I am afraid that boy scouts who are a different religion might be offended. For Christian Boy scouts, it is a another story. As we heard in the news, some churches have banned gay boy scouts from meeting in churches. Homosexuality was removed as a mental illness by a respected medical group in 1973. However before this Homosexuality was not that heard of in America. Of course you might see movies about gays but rarely do you see it. Anyway I am just providing a little background. Now the issue we have here before us is whether or not to allow Bsa in churches. Now as I have mentioned before The Boy scouts of America is a non religious organization. This reminded me Of one of Jesus' sayings.

Matthew 22:20-21
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Now from what I believe, this indirectly proves the separation of church and state. And since the Boy scouts comes to include Muslims and others as well, you can not allow this to happen,

I do not think that forgiveness just magically appears if that is what you are saying,

I believe that you have to ask for forgiveness.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Yes, God loves all sinners. But he loves sinners who repent their sins.

Proverbs 28:13 - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh [them] shall have mercy.

I will wait for my opponents response!
Debate Round No. 1


well said and as always it is a honor to discuss these things with you

I would argue that saying The Boy Scouts of America is a not affiliated with any religious organization is incorrect. According to their website, BSA has Faith Based Chartered Organizations meaning that there are groups of Scouts, supported by and affiliated with religious organizations. These groups are many different Christian, Jewish and Muslim chartered packs. So the idea that scouts is not involved with church and vice versa is incorrect.

While it is true that homosexuality has been removed as a mental illness, that has little bearing on the issue at hand which is the need for biblical evidence to support churches banning scouts from meeting because of their decision to allow gay scouts.

In the same way the scouts do not declare a religion, although they do state it helps with development, it is also not government organization either. In reference to your first verse, this was a question of taxation. The verse is not valid here in my opinion because it is speaking to a separation of church and state, not a separation of private ventures and church. The Boy Scouts are a private institution affiliated with both church and state but not really subject to either.

As to your other point that forgiveness does not "magically" appear, I propose that while it isn't magical, it is not something we can earn with work either. As a Christian, forgiveness hasn't been handed to me without cost. It took the slaying of an innocent to attain it, but there was nothing I could do to earn it on my own. So, I agree it isn't magical but it is freely given. You must ask for forgiveness, but again this query does not satisfy the real question here and that is, should a church remove scouts because of a decision by that organization to allow homosexual boys to be scouts. I argue that answer to be false, churches do not have the right, biblically, to ask anyone to not come to church because they are a sinner, which is exactly what is being done here by not allowing gay scouts into the church. As stated previously, a church that doesn't allow sinners is a church of 0 members.

Sinners are the backbone of the faith. Here is a primary example: If a church allows Alcoholics Anonymous meetings to happen in the church, and someone in the group has committed adultery, do we throw the group out? Adultery, like homosexuality according to the Bible is a sin. So if we throw an entire group of scouts out because there MIGHT be a gay member we must then throw out the AA group because there are sinners there too. We must then throw out the soup kitchen because who knows what kind of sin come through our doors when allow them to come in and eat. This is a dangerous slope the church is going down.

Your final statement "Yes, God loves all sinners. But he loves sinners who repent their sins." falsifies itself. God loves humans and humans are sinners, therefore regardless if they repent or not does not change the fact that God loves us. The decision to choose Him or not doesn't change the fact He loves us, it only has bearing on our eternal state. God has always and always will love us.

I present these two reasons scouts should meet in church

Romans 10:14-17
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"[h] 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

We get an opportunity to show the world here that we love everyone as Christ does. We may not agree but we still love. This also gives us a chance to show evangelism by example to those who may never have had interaction with Christians. Not letting anyone in gives the world the ability to say we are elitist. This is in direct opposition to the gospel message.

John 8:2-11
2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

We are acting like the crowd when we attack others and throw them out of our churches. I would argue that not allowing scouts to meet in our churches, puts us at odds with Christ as the crowd was here. Jesus did not agree with what the woman did, but he defended and loved her anyway. Notice that he shows His love before the command to "Go now and leave your life of sin." In the same way we are to love even though the choice isn't made to leave the life of sin. We are Christians, and we need to start acting like it.

I await your reply brother


I am just going to ask a question. Church is where people worship. So I am confused by your statement in which you say that boy scouts should be able to meet in church. Are they worshiping?
Debate Round No. 2


In answer to the question, the answer is no, the scouts are not worshipping, they are conducting their meetings on the church premises. My biggest point is that the scouts should be allowed to meet in a church, because the church should be open to all. Allowing the scouts to meet in a church doesn't endorse the scouts actions or decisions no more than allowing AA to meet. This is the point that is being made here


I am totally sorry. You convinced me. I will forfeit,
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Silentsvc 5 years ago
Kbub I understand why you cannot debate the topic, I need another Christian to debate this topic because of the presuppositions. I need to give some background here possibly. I have a church that wants to remove its scouts because the BSA has made the decision to allow openly gay members. They have cited the Bible to prove this which is completely inaccurate. I am simply trying to find another Christian to debate me on this topic because the bible no where says we can't allow any person based on what they do into our buildings. Maybe this is not the correct arena so I apologize if it is not. There are many topics in your last post I'd love to debate though!
Posted by kbub 5 years ago
I had a minor mistake on my last post. The "its" can be confusing. That is, I mean you make it so that we can't argue against a particular church's stance on homosexuality.
Posted by kbub 5 years ago
We can't debate this because you force a premise that we disagree with. You force the debate to accept that the Bible is entirely the truth (which doesn't even make sense when it contradicts); you force a particular interpretation of a particular religion to be absolutely correct; and then you make a case for something that is actually indeed correct. OF COURSE churches should be allowing Boy Scouts. The only reason this would be in question is for its stance on homosexuality, but you insist that we can't argue its views on homosexuality (and by the way, Christian churches often disagree on this topic). Therefore, you indirectly make homosexuality being a sin a prerequisite for debate, which means that I cannot in good conscious debate this. It's your premises that I want to argue.
Posted by Silentsvc 5 years ago
@devin.cooper, this may come as a shock to you but the LDS church is not the only church on planet earth. Many denominations and Indepenent Churches have barred BSoA from thier buildings as a result of this decision. If you wish to debate the validity of non LDS churches, please invite me and I would be happy to discuss it. As for me being an idiot, a bit of education. According to Webster, a moron is:
1. A stupid person; a dolt.

2. Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

I assure you sir, I am not stupid or a dolt considering my educational background, secondly I assure you I am not a person of mild retardation and not 7-12 years old. I would know mild retardation as I am a liscensed therapist. As a fellow Christian I am saddened that you would write something like that. The God we profess to believe in shows mercy, even when we are wrong. If you think I am wrong, say so plainly and debate me brother.
Posted by devin.cooper64 5 years ago
The BSoA are partnered with the LDS church, they have special permission to meet in church.
Posted by DudeStop 5 years ago
I Don't know enough about the bible to argue FOR IT. I can easily argue against it, and point out dozens of contradictions, prove evolution, etc...
Posted by Silentsvc 5 years ago
DudeStop, you may so long as we can agree for the sake of this argument that the Bible speaks truth concerning this particular issue. I would be more than happy to debate this with you. I put the presuppositions there so that this doesn't become a debate on homosexuality but focused on the church and its recent dealings with BSA.
Posted by DudeStop 5 years ago
So as an atheist I may not take this?
Posted by Silentsvc 5 years ago
In truth I am trying to get the proverbial feet wet in this arena and therefore only debating within the realm of Christianity, but I will be opening that up in the future! I will be posting other debates open to Non-Christians soon, again, thanks for the input
Posted by kbub 5 years ago
You assume that everyone is Christian in all of your posts. This is a Fundamental (pun intended) problem. Have you considered creating a debate about whether the Bible can be considered to be authored by a Divine Being? I think you would get a strong response from the debate community.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by OtakuJordan 5 years ago
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con admitted defeat and Pro had better arguments anyway so it was quite clearly a win for him.