The Instigator
Akhenaten
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
neonoctopus
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

There is no such thing as a virus

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/24/2019 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,176 times Debate No: 120020
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (28)
Votes (0)

 

Akhenaten

Pro

There are no viruses. Viruses are illogical. Viruses can't attack humans because they have no brains, Legs, Eyes or ears.
neonoctopus

Con

What do you mean there are no viruses. What is herpes caused by? It is caused by a virus. What do you mean that viruses are illogical, They are tiny fast multiply microbes that invade your cells and take them over, Then duplicate themselves inside of the host cell. Viruses are real!
Debate Round No. 1
Akhenaten

Pro

1. You say that they "invade your cells" Yet, They have no brains, Legs, Eyes or ears. So how can they find your cells to invade them? This is not logical.
2. There is only one human disease which is called vitamin deficiency disease. If somebody presents with sores around their mouth or genital area it means that they are eating an inappropriate diet and or abusing their body in ways that it was never mean't to be used. The human digestive system can't tolerate grain, Sugar, Alcolol and dairy products. The more of these items you eat or drink, Then, The sicker you will get. Viruses are just a money making scams which keeps people in the dark about the real cause of disease and makes doctors and pharmaceutical companies rich. Don't be fooled.
neonoctopus

Con

You're just going off of conspiracy theories. Also, What do you mean by there is one human disease. There are lots of them. To name a few the black plague, Ebola, Diphtheria, The flu, And malaria. Those are not all caused by vitamin deficiency. Viruses find your cell to invade by
1. They have flagella which are almost legs.
2. A nucleus which is almost a brain.
They get into your body because they are so light and can float around in the air land on your food or in your water or in your nose, Eye, Mouth or ear.
Debate Round No. 2
Akhenaten

Pro

1. The theory of bacterial viruses is foggy nonsense. Something can either be a bacteria or a virus it can't be both. This is illogical and has no evidence. Flagella are associated with sperm and bacteria and not viruses. In order to have a flagella you first need a brain and muscle tissue with joints. Viruses don't have any of these. Thus, The whole concept is flawed nonsense at best. Nobody has ever seen a virus. I know because I used to work in an electron micronscope laboratory. The electon microscope is incapable of finding or seeing something as small as a virus. Note - You can't photograph what you can't find.
2. The human race relies on conspiracy as a means of doing most things. Nothing has ever occurred in human history that was honest and straight forward. That's not how humans operate. They are deceptive and devious and use what ever means they can to make a buck out of suckers such as yourself.
neonoctopus

Con

Al you are really doing is calling viruses illogical, Foggy nonsense and making possible but very very unlikely excuses probably from some random conspiracy theory site. And no flagella aren't just concerned with sperm they are in certain viruses and bacteria too. And yes you can't see viruses with a microscope. But, People have invented a nanoscope that you can see viruses with. And some people are honest because if they aren't then you are WRONG.
P. S. I'm not a sucker
Debate Round No. 3
Akhenaten

Pro

I haven't seen any virsues with flagella. Thus, My opponent is just making things up. Viruses don't have a nervous system so there would be no mechanism to operate a flagella anyway. The picture below shows that a flagella is very complex and doesn't fit an entity which doesn't have a cell wall or a nervous system.



https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Flagellum#/media/File:Flagellum_base_diagram-en. Svg
neonoctopus

Con

Viral infections can be spread in numerous ways. The fastest way is by contact with an infected person or an infected surface. Many viruses travel through the air and are inhaled from someone who sneezes or coughs without covering their mouth. Some viruses are sexually transmitted, Such as herpes, HIV, And gonorrhea.
Debate Round No. 4
Akhenaten

Pro

In order to survive the environment living things need to be strong and tough. Viruses are weak and have no cell wall to protect them. Thus, They wouldn't last 5 seconds in a harsh and hostile world. Thus, Because they have no cell wall they wouldn't last more than 5 seconds in the air before the sunlight would disintergrate them with light and heat energy. Plants create seeds which are tough and strong to survive in a hostile world. The concept of viruses is just a total illogical nonsense. Its just a money making scam. Don't be fooled.
neonoctopus

Con

Viruses are weak and have no cell wall to protect them.

How do you know that post it in the comments
Debate Round No. 5
28 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PikaChupacabra 3 years ago
PikaChupacabra
Because it is encased in a viral envelope (made from the same material as a cell membrane), It would not be recognized as hostile immediately.
Furthermore, There are white blood cells whose job is literally to eat "hostile organism[s]. "
Posted by Akhenaten 3 years ago
Akhenaten
No cell would willing take in a hostile organism. It wouldn't follow a logical evolutionary story line for one thing.
Posted by PikaChupacabra 3 years ago
PikaChupacabra
@Akhenaten
I believe that the membrane surrounding the virus that Michael mentioned allows it to be accepted by the animal cell.
Because the viral envelope was taken from a cell membrane, The cell membrane doesn't reject it. It would be very similar to the process of endocytosis.
Posted by Akhenaten 3 years ago
Akhenaten
1. You still haven't supplied a mechanism by which the virus pushes itself into animal cells.
2. Cancer is an anaerobic mutation. Thus, If you can get cancer then you must be oxygen deficient. Slow blood circulation due to bad diet causes most diseases including leaky gut syndrome. Blockages and inflammation slows down blood flow which creates an environment for bacteria and cancer to flourish.
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
"A person who eats a bad diet will have poor circulation and thus will create an anaerobic environment which will suit bacteria. "
The only way for your blood to be anaerobic is if you're dead.

"What about before it finds a host[? ]"
All viruses in the world today are created by the cells of living things. When a single virus takes over a cell, It inserts the genetic information to build more of it. That cell will produce several more viruses. These are released into the environment in various ways WITH the protective membrane.
Posted by Akhenaten 3 years ago
Akhenaten
Quote - "As the newly formed viral particle pushes against the host cell"s plasma membrane a portion adheres to it. "

What mechanism does the virus use to PUSH against the cell membrane? I think you forgot that viruses don't have any muscles, Legs, Arms, Brains, Ears, Eyes or means of locomotion.

A person who eats a bad diet will have poor circulation and thus will create an anaerobic environment which will suit bacteria. Leaky gut syndrome allows all kinds of faecal material to enter the blood stream which includes bacteria.

They are moved by their environment until they stick onto a cell that they can inject genetic information into.

Quote - "Now it's an iodine deficiency? What happened to it being from eating grain? "
Reply - I have as much knowledge as any microbiologist about internal communication systems and thyroid hormones T2 and T4 which are iodine based hormones. You don't seen to understand that all parts of the human body are connected and one affects the other. Without iodine in your body it can't function properly and you can become infected by any open cut.

Quote - "It means that the virus takes part of the cell membrane and uses it as a protective layer"

What about before it finds a host. The sunlight would destroy such a fragile entity. Plants are static and produces seeds which are strong because of this. Viruses are static and are weak and can't last more than 5 seconds.

Quote - "They are moved by their environment until they stick onto a cell that they can inject genetic information into. "

Reply - Again- Viruses have no mechanism to inject themselves into or find a host. Plant seeds are tough and strong and only need water to sprout. A plant seed is alive whereas a virus is dead and illogical.

Note - Virus is Latin for toxin. Thus, When people talk about viruses they are really talking about toxins like DDT which is the real cause of Polio, Zika and Ebola so called viruses. Lol
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
"their internal gut bacteria enter the wound from the blood stream"
I told you already, Anaerobic bacteria are not going to reproduce in the oxygen rich environment of your bloodstream, Especially near an open wound.
You're just ignoring everything I say.
While I'm aware that most cuts don't become infected, Some do. This is inconsistent with the living environment that anaerobic bacteria need.

Now it's an iodine deficiency? What happened to it being from eating grain?

"As the newly formed viral particle pushes against the host cell"s plasma membrane a portion adheres to it. The plasma membrane envelops the virus and becomes the viral envelope. "
-https://microbiologyonline. Org/about-microbiology/introducing-microbes/viruses
In case you didn't understand that, It means that the virus takes part of the cell membrane and uses it as a protective layer. That is why they don't burn up "in five seconds. "

I don't understand how you can believe that a toxin ("A cut doesn't necessarily get infected. Only if it is contaminated with something which contains a toxin. ") can cause infection, But not the complex microbes that carry the genetic information to create more of the same microbe.

You say that viruses are illogical because they cannot move on their own. They don't have to, Anymore than a dandelion seed needs to find its own spot to grow. They are moved by their environment until they stick onto a cell that they can inject genetic information into. This sticking and injection works in the same way that proteins fold. When certain molecules bond, The whole is changed.
Posted by Akhenaten 3 years ago
Akhenaten
Animal cells have membranes. Viruses do not have membranes or any protection. Also animals have bones and skin which protects them further. Viruses don't have any protection so they are subject to sunlight which would cause them to disintegrate in a bout 5 seconds. Thus, They are illogical and nonsensical creations.

"This doesn't explain why cuts and scrapes often become infected and inflamed. "

When you are cut you damage your nervous system as well. That's why it hurts. A cut doesn't necessarily get infected. Only if it is contaminated with something which contains a toxin. I have cut myself many times and never had an infection. This is most likely for people who have bad diets and their internal gut bacteria enter the wound from the blood stream. It generally means the person is deficient in iodine.
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
"Because they have no cell wall they wouldn't last more than 5 seconds in the air before the sunlight would disintergrate them with light and heat energy. "
Guess what ANIMALS DON'T HAVE CELL WALLS EITHER.

"If you put something bad in your stomach. . . Your gut lining. . . [will] try to get rid of it. "
You claim that "gut bacteria. . . Causes all known symptoms. "
This doesn't explain why cuts and scrapes often become infected and inflamed.
The majority of gut microbiota (which is the correct term, As many fungi also inhabit your gastrointestinal tract) are anaerobic, So their reproductive abilities actually suffer in environments such as your bloodstream or an open wound.
Moreover, Most gut microbiota are impossible to culture. Culturing microbiota is the process of taking a sample and giving it conditions to make it grow, With several variables such as light, UV light, Food base, Oxygen levels, And Ph level. Because all of the conditions in the open air are hugely alien in comparison to the gut conditions that they normally thrive in, It is impossible to suggest that the same bacteria cause infection to cuts and abrasions when exposed to open air.
So there are definitely other factors in the propagation of disease. Carnivorous animals don't ingest grain, So they can't get leaky gut syndrome as you suggested, And yet, Carnivores can become the hosts of disease.
Marine animals have little or zero contact with grain, Yet they get sick. Your theory of poor diet causing intravenous exposure to gut bacteria on the part of all creatures that become diseased, (though you didn't put it as academically as that) is invalid.
And you completely ignored the fact that heart cancer, And many other diseases linked to your heart, Exist. Trying to hide from evidence will not save you.
Posted by Akhenaten 3 years ago
Akhenaten
"Cancer isn't even a disease caused by bacteria"

https://www. Cancerresearch. Org/blog/march-2014/do-bacteria-cause-cancer

chronic inflammation is linked to approximately 15%-20% of cancers, Including and especially colorectal cancer (CRC). People who have chronic inflammatory bowel diseases are at a much higher risk of developing colorectal cancer.
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