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There is no such thing as an immune system

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/15/2017 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,280 times Debate No: 104453
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
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The concept of humans having an immune system is false. It is just a means of justifying the use of vaccination for disease prevention. It assumes that nature made a mistake when the human body was made and that doctors can fix this mistake. Sorry, nature doesn't make mistakes; only humans make mistakes.


Hello Akhenaten.,

First of all
1.are you talking about how the immune system is only an excuse for doctors to use vaccinations?
2.are you saying that the body's "natural defense system" that destroys bacteria/foreign objects does not exist.

Secondly, what is this "mistake" you are talking about?
It's very confusing.
Are you saying that humans made a mistake when creating humans?
or some thing similar?

I hope you will clarify that.

I watched the video that you posted.

If you touch or have contact with an infected person.
its not a 100% guarantee that you will become infected.
That's just like saying
My brother has a common cold.
I touched his forehead.
Therefore, I must be sick.

The virus is probably in the infected woman's partner's body.
HIV spreads very slowly and most infections aren't revealed years after infection.

If you don't know how the immune system works, check out this video

for you.

Debate Round No. 1


1. Hmmm?????????
Your video sounds very convincing. The pictures are flashing by very fast and the commentator is talking very quickly too. It looks like a very complicated process. But, fortunately, I have an insight into how nature works. Nature doesn't work by complicating things. Nature works by simplifying. The model that is shown in this video is just a computer generated model of a very vague theory about how the medical authorities think the immune system SHOULD work. They have all these interconnecting pathways leading to and fro throughout the human body. Note - Nature always takes the simplest path to complete any task.

2. The soldier analogy
If you have two armies going to battle. Army one has weapons, transport, food and ammunition. Army two has no weapons, transport, food and ammunition but has knowledge of the enemy. Which army would win this battle?
Obviously, army one is going to win this battle, because army one is prepared for anything whereas army two is better prepared but has no means of destroying the enemy and feeding their troops. Thus, we can plainly see having knowledge of the enemy is a waste of time and as I have stated previously; - Nature doesn't do either waste or complication when a simpler solution is available.

3. The human body's natural defense system doesn't work in the manner described in the video. The human body works on the endocrine system which is an iodine based system. Thus, if you have a sufficient supply of iodine your body will be able to defend and repair itself.

4. Mistakes.
Only humans make mistakes. Like germ theory, vaccination, Koch's laws and virus theory. All mistakes.

5. The human gut already contains all the worlds most deadly bacteria, yet, nobody is dying from it. Why?
That's because bacteria belong in the gut and not in the blood stream. How do bacteria get into the blood stream? Answer -
Leaky gut syndrome from eating inappropriate foods.


Hello Akhenaten

Big claim you're making here.
Trying to disprove everything about what humans have discovered about how the body fights off germs.

Antibiotics have nothing to do with this

The fact that the website is about how to IMPROVE your IMMUNE SYSTEM already says that the immune system exists.

In your "soldier analogy" You cannot compare nature to what science has discovered. Nature is great and wonderful and science has only scratched the surface. The immune system is not some "invention". It is a built in system that is present in most living organisms.

Firstly, The human body relies on different enzymes/chemicals/cells from different organs to create a fully functioning immune system. If you claim that the immune system does not exist. If you have an insight into how nature/human body works, how do you explain white blood cells, T cells, B cells, NK cells?

If nature takes the simplest path, why didn't nature just not create white blood cells etc. The fact is that the immune system does exist and that it plays an essential role in fending off foreign objects and harmful organisms.

Secondly,The endocrine system is hormone based and mainly stimulates other parts of the body to perform their functions and does not directly destroy bacteria or other harmful organisms like the immune system does.

This is another "soldier analogy"
One army just has a bunch of supplies but has no soldiers, just some people sitting in an office 1000 miles away.
One army with some supplies to remain functioning with soldiers, equipment etc

The first army could be a key factor in a battle should it aid the second army, but without the second army, it is completely ineffective!

Lastly, how much proof do you need? The immune system is common sense.

All official organizations with research

Debate Round No. 2


1. The immune system doesn't operate in the manner that main stream medicine describes. Germs don't attack humans as described by the medical system. Disease gets in because silly humans allow germs to get in as described in the leaky gut syndrome reference.

Note - You can't repost an old reference without first going to the actual reference sight first and copy and paste ref. on top of page.

2. Germs can only get in if there is a break in the skin or gut lining which allows the bacteria to enter. Thus, if you eat a proper diet, you will never have to see a doctor about anything during your life. Also you need to avoid contact with dangerous chemicals such as pesticides, herbicides, old fecal material, detergents, soaps, heavy metals and halogens. Halogens will destroy your endocrine system by substituting iodine. Iodine substitution is the main cause of the nervous system diseases. These may include polio, Ebola and Zika 'viruses'.

3. Anti-biotics have nothing to do with this article? Drrrrrrrr??????
The article title says - The End of Antibiotics and the Rise of Iodine as an Effective Alternative
Thus, your comment doesn't make sense. If you didn't read the article, then, please state so. If you don't agree with the article, then state your reasons for disagreeing with it. Please don't make meaningless and glib remarks hoping that I won't notice. When you ignore evidence you are undermining the debate processes.

4. Soldier analogy.
Its not my fault that science and nature are in a state of conflict. My main point is that the immune system doesn't have any memory of past bacteria attacks. Only the brain has a memory function. You need to study the history of medicine to see how these concepts first came about. In the case of the immune system having a memory. This idea came from the fact that people who drink a lot of alcohol become 'immune' to alcohol. That is, people who drink alcohol on a regular basis will take longer to get drunk. This basic principle was applied to disease. Edward Jenner (Fast Eddy) who was an unqualified idiot, came up with the concept of using dead bacteria to trick the body into thinking that it was being invaded when it was not. Drrrrrrrrr???????????? How could anybody fall for that one? Yep! They took the bait and have been making zillions of dollars out of vaccination ever since. Snake oil salesmen one, mankind zero.

That's the point. The whole medical system is just a money making scam. Nobody really needs a doctor for anything. Its only inappropriate diet which was employed, courtesy of the agricultural revolution, about 10,000 years ago which began mankind's decline in health. Thus, if you avoid sugar, grain, alcohol, coffee and dairy you can live without ever seeing a doctor. That's called the Paleo diet.

5. The immune system may be complex. True. But the cause of disease is not as described by the medical system. Therein lies the fraud, called 'modern medicine'.

6. Iodine is the body's messenger service. If its not working properly, then, the immune system won't work either. Thus, a person who is iodine and vitamin deficient will most likely either get sick or become cancerous.


Hello Akenhaten,

1 Bacteria/virus don't purposefully "attack" cells. It is driven by the primal instinct of
a. Finding food
b. Survive
c. Reproduce.

2. While its highly UNLIKELY that ALL diseases are spread by the "Leaky gut syndrome"
(due to lack of evidence on your side and lack of evidence on my side to disprove your "leaky gut syndrome")
It is POSSIBLE. However, It is still a hypothetical and unproven theory that lacks real research from universities and governments.
(unless you are deluded enough to believe that research organizations and governments are purposefully hiding information about our health from the public.)

Note- the link your provided is a "leaky gut syndrome" support group. It is most likely made up of people like you who believe that there is something called "Leaky Gut Syndrome" Their info is not backed by any research except for their own symptoms.

There were no pesticides/soap/detergent in the past. Yet their lifespans were shorter than ours. According to the information you provided, as long as we don't consume these substances, we will never get sick/ill.
People back then must have eaten a lot of "old fecal material" then

BTW, iodine is a halogen. but I guess it doesn't really matter.

2. Yes, iodine is needed and is extremely helpful to the human body. However, iodine does not play a leading role in the immune system. The endocrine system is for maintaining hormones and facilitating the smooth process of the immune system.

That's why iodine is only a SUPPLEMENT and not a direct replacement for the immune system.
Polio zika and ebola are all caused by viruses. not iodine deficiency.

3. Sorry, I meant antibiotics have nothing to do with this debate. Yes sure, perhaps. I did read the article. But my comment is still the same. We are talking about the immune system, free of medication (except for vaccines since you brought it up). not antibiotics. If you are trying to prove iodine's effectiveness as an antimicrobial, there is not enough iodine in our bloodstream to effectively combat diseases. (at least in the long term) Iodine can be toxic and lethal. a 70-80 kg person could be killed by 2.5 grams of iodine.

4. If the immune system doesn't have a way of "storing" memory of past "attacks" (lets not be so literal OK?)
Explain how most people don't get chickenpox after their first infection. Explain how during the black death, people who survived rarely got the plague again. alcohol consumption theory is more relatable to fitness. The more you exercise over a period of time, the fitter you get. Your liver learns to process the alcohol and makes adjustments to help take care of the next "wave" of alcohol.

However, the immune system has a much more complicated process. It has various types of cells to help. It makes use of antigens and receptors to identify pathogens and release antibodies which are more effective. B cells binds onto a pathogen and makes use of "helper" T cells to activate itself, releasing antibodies which destroy the specific pathogen. At the same time, memory B cells are "putting down" virus information and are dividing to form more memory B cells...

The immune system is a series of relays between cells that make use of receptors and memory cells to form an effective defense system against a reinfection.

The vaccine is to "purposefully infect" with a weakened version of the pathogen and to hopefully activate the immune system's memory function.

now that i have justified vaccines, I don't think I need to address "Paleo diet"
In plus there has not been any research or experiment about the Paleo diet.
But it should considerably reduce the risk of disease due to a healthy immune system from a healthy diet.

5. Okay. This is your own view. I don't need to talk about that
Where is the evidence of fraud?

6. Yes. Completely agree. Iodine is very useful for the immune system. But as I said earlier, the endocrine system is for maintaining hormones.

All of my explanation for my case should be included in my points above.

Debate Round No. 3


1. Iodine and the immune system.
My opponent states that iodine has nothing to do with the immune system but nothing could be further from the truth.
Quote - " However, iodine does not play a leading role in the immune system"

My reference quote -- Iodide is accumulated during phagocytosis, the process of engulfing and ingesting bacteria and other foreign bodies. The iodide is attached to the bacteria and to proteins, creating iodoproteins including monoiodotyrosine.

Thus, we can plainly see that without iodine the immune system would not be able to kill any bacteria in the blood stream. This demonstrates that my opponent hasn't researched the matter in much detail and is just relying on hearsay evidence.

2. My opponent seems to think that it is highly unlikely that all disease begins in the gut.

"All disease begins in the gut." " Hippocrates

Now, the father of medicine really knew his stuff. Right! And that was 2,500 years ago.

3. Antibiotics have nothing to do with this debate?
Evidence is evidence. You shouldn't discount any evidence until the final synopsis and analysis of all the evidence put forward. Only in hindsight can we say that something is irrelevant. Well, as things stand at the moment, the antibiotics evidence looks like pretty bad news for your side of the argument. Thus, I can see your haste in wanting to get rid of it. lol

Note - The immune system doesn't need a huge amount of iodine. The tiniest trace of iodine is sufficient to kill bacteria. Don't forget, we evolved from the ocean where there is an abundance of iodine.

4. No research done on the Paleo diet?

I don't think that you have spent much time looking for it.

5. Where's the fraud?

Answer - Just step into any medical clinic and you will see it everywhere.

Maybe Wade Frazier can answer that question for me.


Hello Akenhaten,

I think you're misunderstanding my point of view here.
While I agree that
1.Iodine is an essential mineral for humans
2.Iodine is needed to maintain a healthy immune system
3.The medical field today can be "corrupt" and has taken advantage of people.
4.Paleo diet is healthy

I disagree that iodine can directly replace the immune system.
I think that iodine plays a supporting role in regulating and enhancing the immune system and that the immune cells from the immune system are the main "line" of "defense"/"protection" (again don't take it so literally)

I also disagree that the having a paleo diet for the rest of your life can ensure that you can never see a doctor in your life.
The reason why I questioned your evidence is because there is no such experiment that proves your point that having a paleo diet can let you have immunity to all diseases.

A number of your points are a bit off topic.
If you would read the motion,
"There is no such thing as an immune system"
Please keep your arguments relative to the topic.
Using iodine, leaky gut syndrome and paleo diet is completely fine as an explanation against the immune system.
However, antibiotics, nature vs science is completely irrelevant.
Antibiotic resistance in bacteria is a major and worsening problem today,
But, it does not support your point about how the immune system does not exist and that it has been iodine deficiency and leaky gut syndrome all along that caused all the deaths due to disease.
For example, flu, colds, Ebola, plague, malaria, smallpox(at least in the past),HIV and its complications etc etc.

1. Iodoproteins (thyroid hormones T1,T2,T3,T4) like monoiodotryosine (thyroid T1 hormones) are precursors to thyroid hormones and are mostly inert.
"T0, T1 and T2 are hormone precursors and byproducts of thyroid hormone synthesis. They do not act on the thyroid hormone receptor and appear to be totally inert."
"T2 and T1 are thought to play minor roles in the thyroid and rest of the body, primarily serving as precursors to and byproducts of T4/T3 formation. "
They aren't measured in clinics when testing for thyroid problems because they have no demonstrated clinical value.

Thus, the result is almost completely ineffective in helping the immune system. (at least directly)

2. Most infectious diseases are airborne
"An important mode of indirect contact is airborne transmission occurring via the spread of fine aerosols, skin flakes, and fungal spores in room air over long distances and time scales."
"Aerosols can be generated and released by human expiratory actions (speech, coughing, and sneezing), skin shedding, or resuspension from surfaces"

This entire article is about how to prevent AIRBORNE diseases from spreading.

Please don't tell me about how we somehow swallow the air and it goes into our gut and leaks out somehow...

3. Sure we shall see. My comment is still exactly the same though. Please explain how antibiotics has anything to do with the immune system.
"Evidence is evidence." evidence for what.
"Thus, I can see your haste in wanting to get rid of it. lol" Getting desperate, are we?

4. Yes the paleo diet is healthy. but, because diseases are airborne, it is impossible not to be exposed to bacteria/viruses.
The only reason why normal healthy people are able to resist infections is because of natural immunity passed on from the previous generation(s). Having a paleo diet is very helpful and can strengthen the immune system, however your theory about how a paleo diet can ward off all diseases is simply false.

5. If you are trying to prove that vaccines are just a way to make money because some doctors cooperate with drug companies. Maybe you should look for something else instead... Just because one apple is bad, doesn't mean all the others are.

I have given up trying to convince you that vaccines are good. So I will just let websites talk to you

One last successful example though.
How was smallpox eradicated? (Excluding the samples in labs)
Using the smallpox vaccine. In the past, people were immunized by the masses and soon smallpox was slowly eradicated from the world. (again discounting lab samples)

Again all of my explanation for my case should be included above

BTW can you please clarify your stance on whether the immune system exists?
Also, do you want the last round to be summary of the previous rounds or another round of this?

Debate Round No. 4


1. Quote - "I disagree that iodine can directly replace the immune system."

My research reference clearly reveals that this assumption is false.

page 2 -

You have completely disregarded the research of Stossel, Venturi, Woeber and Deruberti. Iodine is the main weapon that the immune system uses in destroying bacteria. Without iodine the immune system would be like a toothless tiger.

2. Quote - "I also disagree that the having a paleo diet for the rest of your life can ensure that you can never see a doctor in your life."

Before going onto a Paleo diet I was constantly sick, had chest pains and headaches. Since going on a paleo diet all my chest pains are gone, no colds or flu and no headaches either. I have given you dozens of reference books about the Paleo diet and its health benefits. You can test it for yourself. Then you will see that I was right.

3. Antibiotics.
The fact that doctors give people antibiotics to kill bacteria in the gut tells us three things.
(a) The the immune system doesn't work because the immune system isn't killing the germs.
(b) Doctors ignore the true cause of disease and pretend that the germs are making people sick when they should be looking at the person's diet.
(c) That doctors don't use iodine to kill germs because there is no money in giving dietary advice or issuing iodine which can be produced very cheaply.

Thus, we can see that the medical system is corrupt and all about making money. This is why they ignore iodine as a cure for disease. Yes. Iodine is very cheap and you can get it for next to nothing. Thus, doctors will recommend that you use dangerous drugs to kill all the bacteria in your gut so that you will most likely starve to death as a result. This is because you need bacteria in the gut to aid in food digestion.
The medical system even spreads rumours that iodine is poisonous to humans so that people will avoid trying it as a solution for their particular problem.

4. Quote - "Antibiotic resistance in bacteria is a major and worsening problem today,"

This is just nonsense. Bacteria are not the cause of disease. Bacteria belong in the gut and not in the blood stream. "Bacteria are a result of a disease and are not the cause of it". Antoine Bechamp.

5. Most diseases are airborne.

Just an unjustified myth. I am constantly in the presence of cold and flu suffer's and don't get any of their symptoms. That's because I know what the true cause of these so called 'viruses'. Its bad diet.

My final piece of evidence is Professor Pettenkofer who famously swallowed a vial of cholera bacterium to prove that germs are not the cause of disease. Note - He survived without any ill effects.


Hello Akenhaten,

Note- If I ignored any of your evidence/points, sorry.
But I still think that proving antibiotics are bad is not helpful to your case at all.

Here we are at the final round of this debate.
Here is two concessions I make to side proposition.
1 Nothing works without iodine. I give you that.
"Without iodine the immune system would be like a toothless tiger."
Good point.

2. Iodine is a good alternative to antibiotics
(but that has no relevance to this topic)

However, one problem in your logic.
without a weapon to use, iodine is as useless as an immune system with no iodine.
Therefore, my point is still that iodine cannot directly replace the immune system because iodine itself (without supporting cells) does not have the cohesiveness and the communication that the immune system has. Does iodine have receptors to "know" where possible threats are? Does iodine "know" when or when not to release blood into the tissue? (inflammation)

No it does not. Iodine is simply a mineral, not some miracle drug. If iodine is really a replacement for the immune system. Why don't people with HIV/other immunodeficiency conditions simply pop a few iodine tablets everyday? Iodine has to be incorporated into the immune system.
It cannot be effective independently.
Even when in hormones, those hormones don't have the capability to destroy bacteria/other foreign objects/viruses/fungus etc.

2. I'm not denying that the Paleo diet is healthy. I'm saying that it is impossible to guarantee that a person on a paleo diet is completely immune to all diseases as there has been no experiment with one paleo diet person and another non paleo diet person living together and doing things together. How can one make the assumption that the paleo diet makes people immune to all diseases. It is simply exaggerated and untrue.

Perhaps (hopefully), you are talking about how paleo diet can help prevent diseases and sickness by having a good diet and keeping your immune system healthy.

If so, that is just common sense. All nutritionists know that. Most people in the world know that.
That's why there's a "Food Pyramid" to help guide us in what we should and should not eat. (even though no one follows it ;) )

3. (a) The immune system needs a first infection/ natural immunity for it to successfully destroy an infection swiftly. (That's why you won't feel sick at all, its your immune system easily taking out the re-infection).

(b) Doctors are here to try and guess how people get sick.
Diet is one of the bigger factors regarding immune strength.
As you said, iodine in a diet is crucial to immune system health.

Iodine is already used in hospitals. When I was at a hospital for broken arm surgery ( :( )
The doctors used iodine as a disinfectant before cutting open my arm. Iodine is used in certain situations.
The reason why antibiotics aren't working is because of constant antibiotic abuse, leading to antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria such as: staphylococcus aureus (which I got sadly)
The first type of antibiotics didn't work. So its probably resistant against that medication.
Then I switched to another kind. That one worked for me. My fever went away naturally quickly and my bones started healing again ( :) )
( A little off topic personal experience )

(c) I already said I agree with you on that one.
Iodine is viewed and still is a supplement. That's all it is. iodine should not be used as medication.

4. Here, research for you. Your suggestion is just wrong.

There are an "infinite" number of links about research and the above links are collocations.
So if you're interested you can check them out.

5. You completely ignored my question. If bacteria are not airborne, explain how a sick person coughing and sneezing can infect others. (what, by drilling a hole in the gut and coughing it in?)

You probably have antibodies built up to combat "cold and flu" as do all of us
(except for certain isolated communities and people with immunodeficiency conditions)
We are all surrounded by bacteria and viruses that cause disease. Its just that our immune system has been working with antibodies from past immunizations (natural/vaccines) to keep those micro organisms relatively few in number.
(Sorry, second language. Maybe bad grammar?)

Professor Pettenkofer believed in germs.
He believed that instead of using quarantine, bacteria can be made non-contagious by changing factors like weather and individual vulnerability to disease. Not that germs don't exist.

According to Professor Pettenkofer theory about variables, he probably wanted to prove that the bacterium can be rendered harmless if they were stored in a special way or by changing environmental factors. Not to prove that bacteria don't cause disease. I think you misunderstood the nature of his experiment.
Ignored questions...

1. how do you explain white blood cells, T cells, B cells, NK cells?

2.There were no pesticides/soap/detergent in the past. Yet their lifespans were shorter than ours. According to the information you provided, as long as we don't consume these substances, we will never get sick/ill.

3.Explain how during the black death, people who survived rarely got the plague again.

4.BTW can you please clarify your stance on whether the immune system exists?

5. (Maybe unclear demand for explanation on my part)
This entire article is about how to prevent AIRBORNE diseases from spreading.
Please don't tell me about how we somehow swallow the air and it goes into our gut and leaks out somehow...

Firstly, side prop does not have a clear definition of the topic.
Secondly, side prop also has not been rebutting my points properly with logic and facts. He/she deflects arguments by saying that it is "hearsay evidence" or it is a myth.
Thirdly, side prop ignores any agreements I make.

I appreciate your effort in trying to challenge such a strong and well known theory. Hopefully you're just trolling and you don't actually believe the stuff you said. It is quite ridiculous from my stand point, especially the one how bacteria is the result of disease and how all bacteria travel through the bloodstream from the gut...

We have strayed away from proving the existence of the immune system to whether iodine is useful in the immune system?
perhaps in the near future when you debate your gravity wave thingy, you can try to read what your opponent has said carefully? and try to answer every part of his/her argument? And have a civil and calm discussion please? You gave me an impression of an angry person sitting behind a laptop/computer typing about how I am all evil and corrupted etc etc.
It would make debating with you a much more pleasurable experience.

Once again, thank you for having this debate with me
And if you're reading this, please vote side oppose.

Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by whiteflame 2 years ago
>Reported vote: MagicAintReal// Mod action: Removed<

2 point to Con (Sources). Reasons for voting decision: No opt-in, no moderation! Pro uses a source about the immune system being iodine, directly impacting the resolution and showing that our immune system doesn't exist as we generally refer to the immune system however, the rest of the source, which neither debater pointed out, shows how there is an immune system that protects us, as is generally defined. This works against Pro for the topic of this debate is there is no immune system, and that would work as an immune system. Pro's sources on health fall short because Con wasn't debating the actual topic. Yes, that is not a typo. This reasoning has been approved by moderators, that since Con wasn't debating the actual topic, I will dock Pro source points...air tight in the mods' eyes. Pro's sources weren't sufficient to refute an immune system as I personally view one to be (mod approved), and often helped Con's arguments of an immune system. Dishonesty > quality!

[*Reason for removal*] (1) Voters are required to assess the debate as it is presented. They are allowed to supplement that assessment with some deeper dives into the source materials given in the debate, but even if the voter is solely awarding source points, there must be some assessment based on how they"re actually used. (2) The voter is required to specifically assess sources given by both sides.
Posted by nightmareuser 2 years ago
oh sorry to hear that.

Lol I have no interest in carrying this on.
It has been a pleasure.
nice pun tho.

Posted by Akhenaten 2 years ago
I can see that you are new to debating online. Welcome to the universe that you didn't know existed before. I guess you never imaged that the world you live in is just a make believe matrix created by the rich and powerful. lol. Your nightmare awakening is just beginning! lolololololololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Akhenaten 2 years ago
Sorry if I sounded angry. But you are defending a criminal organisation called the medical fraternity. If you would like a list of crimes. I can supply it.
Crime number one. My childhood dentist filled my fillings with cotton wool to make extra profits. It ruined my teeth later in life.
Posted by nightmareuser 2 years ago

because of bugs on this website, sometimes, i am unable to access this particular site.
So my answers could be delayed like today.

Posted by Akhenaten 2 years ago
Definition of an imbecile - somebody who always sees everything out of context.
Posted by ContraMaster 2 years ago
Akhenaten kind of rebutted his comment about vaccinations with the "soldier analogy."
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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