The Instigator
TheAdvancedLemon
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
TheGreatGameLord
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Transgender people are not the sex they claim to be

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TheAdvancedLemon
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2019 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 643 times Debate No: 120786
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (1)

 

TheAdvancedLemon

Pro

I think a lot of people blindly accept that trans people just are the gender they claim to be which I think is not correct.

If you disagree with my opinion please respond and lay out your argument and I will try and disprove your points.
TheGreatGameLord

Con

Point 1: Transgender people do not claim that their sex is different from their natural sex. There are only two sexes, Naturally. In contrast, They claim that their gender differs from the one assigned to them at birth. There is a difference between sex and gender identity.
Point 2: You can not prove that their gender identity is not what they claim it to be because this is an entirely subjective concept.
Debate Round No. 1
TheAdvancedLemon

Pro

The issue with this line of reasoning is that if someone claims to be black because they "disagree with the race assigned to them at birth" then everyone around them will be expected to give into their delusion. You can be a feminine male but that does not make you a female and you should still be referred to as he.

And I'm not arguing their "gender identity" (which in my opinion is basically just different labels people give themselves to feel unique ie queer gendered etc. ) I am actually arguing that just because someone claims to be female or a woman they are not actually a woman and they should still be treated as a male.
TheGreatGameLord

Con

But your point is completely not based in fact. People claim to be another gender, Not another sex. You can't argue this point because it doesn't happen in real life. That's like saying "people who live on the moon are stupid. " It's not something to be argued for because it doesn't happen in real life.
Debate Round No. 2
TheAdvancedLemon

Pro

First off while it is not the average there are many trans people who argue they are a different sex to what they are born with. And also I am arguing that sex and gender are intertwined and that someones inherent personalities don't mean anything in deciding whether they are male or female.

Because that decision occurred when they were a developing fetus and is not something they can change, I see no evidence that gender is removed from sex as the vast of people stick with the gender they are assigned as from birth. And we are only seeing a rise in transgenderism in the last 10 years whereas before then the numbers were relatively low. I don't really agree that the concept of gender being a social construct gives someone the right to change it to whatever they like and make up things like queer gendered, Or demi gendered etc.

I just think that maybe people are just more in touch with their masculine or feminine side than average and that's ok but what isnt ok is when they decide to lie to themselves and pretend to be something that they scientifically aren't.
TheGreatGameLord

Con

Scientifically, People are always the same sex they were at birth. However, Gender is not so much of a scientific thing these days, And is more what the person believes their identity to be. You can not prove in any way that the gender transgender people claim to be is not what their gender is as it is not based in science either way. It is the same thing as if a person decides to change their name. It's not a scientific concept, It is entirely based on the person's feelings.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
But I wouldn't have voted for you in the Omniscience and free will debate.
You didn't agree with me. That is a joke.
The actual reason is that your were lacking. Killshot gave a much more convincing argument and I think I could boil down all your arguments to you don't know and God can do illogical things. I wanted more than just that.
Posted by TheGreatGameLord 3 years ago
TheGreatGameLord
@omar2345
Thanks for that
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
I would have voted for you too. Pro doesn't know what Pro is talking about.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@TheGreatGameLord

You should ask people like me.
Can't really keep up with debates that I am less interested compared to other debates.
Posted by TheGreatGameLord 3 years ago
TheGreatGameLord
why did only one person vote
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
"The words have been twisted by the society wishing to promote a specific agenda. "
Proof?

"What does it mean to be female? "
I would say they are two definitions. One sex and the other gender. Sex is biological and the other is cultural.
A female can bear offspring using her genitalia.
A woman is what society dictates what a women to be like.
I used women because female is used as a science term and woman is more of a general term.

"What makes something right or wrong? "
I can find flaws in your arguments by showing if they are fallacious or with evidence.

"If people start twisting words around and start saying the moon is made of cheese, Does that make it right? "
Depends on what they mean by cheese. If it is present definition then no they are wrong. Sure they can have that opinion but cannot claim that to be a fact without evidence.

"Why is there even a need to even identify as something. . . . Why not just be who you are. . . . Man or woman. "
I don't know what you mean here. What other identifications do we have? Do you mean idntifications as in liberal, Conservative or gender fluid and trans-genderism?
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
Yep, I'm back. . . With a Vengeance. . . . (sounds like a tag line to a Bruce Willis film). . . .

It HAS been synonymous with biological sex. Prior to the 2000's, When people asked Gender, They were referring to biological sex.

I can't believe with all my heart that I'm Abraham Lincoln. . . . . However, Simply donning a top hat and sporting a beard does not make it so.

The words have been twisted by the society wishing to promote a specific agenda.

When a man claims to be female. . . He identifies himself as a gender of female. . . What exactly does that mean? First question I would propose to him is this: Ok. What does it mean to be female?

I agree, Just being recent doesn't make it wrong. But yet, Folks (you? ) are calling me wrong when I say there are only 2 genders. . . . So that begs the question. . . What makes something right or wrong? Popular vote? If people start twisting words around and start saying the moon is made of cheese, Does that make it right?

I have to ask, Why is there even a need to even identify as something. . . . Why not just be who you are. . . . Man or woman.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@GuitarSlinger

Can't believe your back.

"For centuries, Was synonymous with biological sex. . . . That's always how it's been. "
I thought you would be back better than ever. Guess I was wrong. This is an appeal to tradition.

"The changing of gender to now be a "cultural" thing that is fluid is only a recent invention"
Do you know what also is a recent invention the internet? Just being recent does not mean it is wrong.

"Meant to pander/cater to those who struggle with their biological sex. "
I don't know where you got this false information from but I am here to state it is false. There is a reason it is called gender fluid and trans-genderism. This debate is based on incorrect data and I guess you like confirmation bias.
Posted by GuitarSlinger 3 years ago
GuitarSlinger
Gender, For centuries, Was synonymous with biological sex. . . . That's always how it's been. The changing of gender to now be a "cultural" thing that is fluid is only a recent invention, Meant to pander/cater to those who struggle with their biological sex.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Kvng_8

"They are the same thing"
Wrong. Sex and gender are connected not the same.
Sex is biological.
Gender is cultural.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Jzyehoshua 3 years ago
Jzyehoshua
TheAdvancedLemonTheGreatGameLordTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con actually undercut their own argument in closing by saying "Gender is not so much of a scientific thing these days." They essentially admitted that Pro was right that gender previously was defined scientifically in the past, and that modern definitions are not scientific-thus giving the argument to Pro.

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