The Instigator
Arganger
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Guy-de-Place
Con (against)
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Transgenderism is Unhealthy

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/14/2018 Category: Health
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,000 times Debate No: 110714
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Arganger

Pro

Transgender: "A person (as a transsexual or a transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth."

This does not include a person who just:
Enjoys things the opposite sex tends to like
Dresses like the opposite sex
Is gay

It is someone who wants to be, or sees themselves as, the opposite sex.

Health refers to both physical and mental health.

Both sides must act with respect to the other, and the burden of proof is shared.

I am arguing that transgenderism is unhealthy.
Guy-de-Place

Con

I don't see transgenderism as unhealthy in itself.
If it is an issue of mental health, the "healthy" or "unhealthy" is not as clear as it would be concerning physical health. If we want to define "unhealthy" as something causing damage to the mental heath of the individual, transgenderism isn't necessarily detrimental to an individual. An identity crisis can cause problems, but if they come to a certain conclusion that they do not feel the gender they were born, transgenderism is the cure.

As far as physical health, it is more risky to have the hormone treatments and surgeries. I don't see any larger harm in lacking reproductive ability as Earth is getting pretty crowded.

As far as the mental health of non-trans people, I think it forces some of them to look in a different sort of mirror than the ones they are used to and it makes them uncomfortable. But when more people try to understand, more people will grow. We can broaden our perspective of what people can be. We will have to if we are going to progress.
Debate Round No. 1
Arganger

Pro

Transgender people are more than two times as likely to experience mental illness.

People who are transgender, even after surgery, are far more likely to commit suicide. Infact, the amount of them whom attempt suicide is between 32% and 50% depending on country.

In india, half of transgender people attempt suicide before their 20th birthday.

These grave statistics alone show that transgenderism is detrimental to someone's mental health. Transitioning doesn't fix it.

Transgender, and other non typical sexual orientations, are over represented in the foster care system.

This shows me that transgender very well could be an unhealthy coping mechanisms for abuse. It is a way to separate oneself from the person who was abused, a way to dissociate from the situation.

Unlike simply being gay, being transgender is a complete rejection of ones own gender.

This will be my starting point.

https://www.mercatornet.com...

https://www.hrc.org...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Guy-de-Place

Con

There is no denying that the suicide attempt rate is higher among transgender people. There are also higher suicide attempt rates among people who use prescription antidepressants. But in any examination of statistics, we have to be careful to separate correlation and causation.
The statistics you linked seem genuine. Your stated 32%-50% may not be wrong. I will now point to the Williams Institute statistics that were cited as the source of information in the first link. The stats provided find the greatest increase in suicide rate were experienced by those who faced discrimination, rejection and violence from the community. http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...
In fact, it seems all the links provided cite discrimination/harassment/violence as very significant factors in transgender suicide attempt rate. To me, this seems to speak to the health of society as a whole every bit as much as it speaks to the health of transgender people.
The rate of children identifying as trans in the foster system was interesting. Slightly more than doubling the outside rate. But again, we have no strict causation defined. It could be, as you say, a coping mechanism. It could just as well be that children are more free to make that choice as the foster system is in no position to force a gender identity on them as parents often do. This also does not indicate transgenderism in itself being unhealthy.
Common statistics on bullying indicate that victims are between 2 and 9 times more likely to consider suicide. There is no denying that transgender people face far more aggression and discrimination that cisgender people.
With an average suicide attempt rate in America of 4.6%, well, multiply it by 9 and see what you get.
It is riskier to be trans, no doubt. But suicide attempt rate is not a reliable indicator that transgenderism is unhealthy. It can be shown to reflect the problems in society in large as easily as it can be shown to reflect an unhealthy state in transgender people.
I'm not going to try to say that it is more healthy, but in order to empirically state that transgenderism is unhealthy, we need clear causation, as anyone familiar with statistical analysis knows and has been very annoyed by, statistics are easy to manipulate. Causation has to be established in order to link rates to a specific factor.
The use of statistics in your last argument shows certain correlation, yet causation is elusive and can be called into serious doubt by outside factors such as discrimination.
Debate Round No. 2
Arganger

Pro

My last argument, by sadly necessity, will be rushed.

While it is true that discrimination and adverse experiences must play a role, it cannot account for all of them.

The reason that adverse experiences cannot be the only cause of suicide is seen with race.

White people have the highest suicide rate among race groups, if discrimination were the major factor in suicide we would see black people having higher rates of suicide than they do.

The way that transgenderism is unhealthy as coping mechanism, is because making yourself another person means you are not directly dealing with the trauma, making long term recovery more difficult. It's denial.

Also, it has the potential for more mental health struggles if someone goes through with gender change, and regrets it in time. This is more common then some think. Fully rejecting someone's birth sex, is not a small feat.

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http://www.newsweek.com...
https://afsp.org...
Guy-de-Place

Con

I appreciate you continuing even while pressed for time, so I'll match you by posting like 12 beers deep and watching cartoons.

About race discrimination, I assume you mean black people in America. In this case you would be talking about roughly 13% of the population. With transgender people you would be talking about less than 0.5%. And people don't get rejected by their own parents for being black. If you look at the suicide attempt rate in the last link I posted, you might notice that rejection by family created up to a 30% increase in suicide attempt rate. Very similar rate increases were seen in transgender people experienced violence from coworkers or police. Being singled out is a huge factor, just like in bullying. But in this case, it even extends to family.

As a coping mechanism, I think that you probably have a valid point for some cases. The utmost consideration should be taken before any surgery, and there is no going back from such a decision. But I would say that people make all kinds of bad decisions when they are mentally unhealthy and transgenderism could be a misguided path for some, but unhealthy people take any number of misguided paths. Transgenderism would be a coping mechanism, as you say, not a disease.

I can see how you are concerned about this and it was interesting to see the point of view from you side. I hope you will also consider the increased rates of suicide by people who been singled out and victimized. Even if transgenderism is inherently unhealthy, it does even more damage to discriminate, harass, or otherwise harm transgender people.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by lebronjames43 3 years ago
lebronjames43
god made a man a man for a reason. he didn't make a man to become a woman.
Posted by notinthecards 3 years ago
notinthecards
You're not taking into effect culture. You Threw out a statistic for India but you didn't mention India's culture or stigma when it comes to how it feels about transgender-ism nor the possibility of its the culture and the people around the transgender person making the person causing the mental distress. It may not be the transgender committing suicide BECAUSE they feel like they are the opposite sex, but because of how other people react and treat said person because they don't know how to handle this issue.
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