The Instigator
bcortez
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Athias
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Transgenders are valid

Do you like this debate?NoYes+4
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Athias
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/21/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,145 times Debate No: 118346
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

bcortez

Pro

Transgender is an adjective "of, Relating to or being a person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth" (Merriam Webster, 2018). There is a large debate over whether those identifying as trans are valid or not. It is of my opinion that they are. I ask that you use religious arguments as little as possible. I respect that your religion or someone else's may be absolutely against transgenders but that does not determine their validity.
Athias

Con

Transgenderism is logically inconsistent, Or inconsequent--whichever one prefers. Transgenderism attempts to assign a physical attribute like sex to identity, Which is an abstract philosophical concept. How does one "identify" as a man or woman without being conscripted to the aspects which dictate the differentiation. The terms "men" and "women" are derivations of "males" and "females, " which designate roles in reproduction. A man "identifying" as a woman, For example, Doesn't change this. He never bore, Doesn't bear, Nor will ever bear the parts to reproduce as a female. So physically speaking, We can dispense with the pretense that the rubric by we which determine sex is the subjective evaluation, Manifest or not, Of one's self-image. Thus, Logically invalid.

So then it becomes an issue of custom. Will custom ever reflect the "validity" of transgenderism? The answer to that, Too, Is no. Customs have always been utilitarian, And established to maximize the utility of each individual of a community in service to biological imperative--reproduction, Resource acquisition, And most important, Survival. Contrary to feminist and SJW philosophy, Gender roles or "gender identity" weren't social inventions concocted by men to exploit women. It was and still is a constellation of behaviors manifested through gender (or sex) based divisions of labor in order to survive. Transgenderism doesn't contribute to the survival of any community; in fact, It stifles it insofar as the capacity in which gender dysphoria is expressed results in genital mutilation. Hence, It's customarily invalid. I'll put a pause to my argument here, And I'll wait for your response.
Debate Round No. 1
bcortez

Pro

Before I begin with my argument I would like to apologize if my response isn't correct. In all honesty, I have very limited experience with debate and I am using this as a way to strengthen my skills. On to the argument. According to the World Health Organization, "Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men, Such as norms, Roles, And relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed. " Words meaning can change drastically over time in the evolution of words known as semantic shift. While man and woman may have started out as derivatives of male and female, They no longer mean the same thing. You said that "It [gender roles] was and still is a constellation of behaviors manifested through gender (or sex) based divisions of labor in order to survive. " Again humans evolve, While this may have been true at one point in time it is not now. At the current rate of those with gender dysphoria (an estimated. 58%), The human species is not in danger of not having sufficient amount of offspring. There is no need for there to be divisions of labor in order to survive. Physical labor is not as hard as it used to be and nowhere near as necessary. All jobs can be done just as well by an able body female, As they can by an able body man. So at this point in time, There is no need for gender roles. So why should we make people conform to an unneeded system? Why can't a person who feels they fit the characteristics of a woman better than a man be called a woman? Or vice versa?
Athias

Con

Semantic shift has little effect on the information of fact. And that fact is men inseminate, Women gestate. You can call this process whatever you want, But the function is still the same. You're incorrect in stating that the derivatives no longer mean the same thing--that was never my argument, I. E. Their meanings were the same; hence, I referred to them as "derivations" not "synonyms. " But by every definition, Man still means "adult male, " and woman still means "adult female. " As for your statement, "There is no need for there to be [gender-based] divisions of labor in order to survive. Physical labor is not as hard as it used to be, And no where near as necessary, " this may only be true if your focus remains on the Industrialized West, And even then your statement would not be true since gender roles still tend to be manifest all around the Earth. (This is most glaring when it comes to public goods like military service and firefighting, Where women demand the standards be changed because they cannot meet the standards which suit most men. )

Furthermore, Your argument defeats itself. If there's no need for "gender roles, " then there's no need for norms or even differentiation outside capacity to reproduce. Gender would be rendered an aspect of humanity which exists just to exist. How, Then, Would someone with Gender Dysphoria be able to identify the characteristics which differentiate men and women? Outside of reproduction, Which characteristics can they assume that aren't, As you put it, "unnecessary"?

Note: I don't believe anyone is being made to do anything as it concerns themselves as individuals. However, If they wish for someone else to call them something which goes against the customs with which they were raised, Not to mention it defies fact, The question is, "why I should I call you something factually and customarily incorrect? "
Debate Round No. 2
bcortez

Pro

bcortez forfeited this round.
Athias

Con

Given that you've forfeited round three of this argument, Can I assume that you no longer wish to participate? If that is indeed the case, Then we can for the courtesy of onlookers declare it officially over right now.
Debate Round No. 3
bcortez

Pro

bcortez forfeited this round.
Athias

Con

Argument concluded.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Nartnod7875 3 years ago
Nartnod7875
32doni32nido32 the validity of transgenderism can impact how our society functions, Thus changing our way of life. New social constructs and social forces will be implemented if we accept and usher in this system of identification.
Posted by Funkster289 3 years ago
Funkster289
One major critique that I have to make is the use of the 58% of people have gender dysphoria within the argument. I believe to give the argument a stronger footing, It is necessary to give a not only valid but credible source. (This means using news stations as sources for studies like these won't cut it). If the source can't be located then I recommend not using the figure because it takes away from the argument and makes the facts seem like they are conjured for the purposes of the argument rather then an actual fact. Another benefit to citing the source is that you can use it as a way of forcing one to reevaluate your source and make an argument to why the source is bad rather then just being able to say, "that doesn't seem like a plausible number or leaves room for them to pull a figure to counter it that may be completely made up but due to you not having a source can be treated as having just as much validity.
Posted by 32doni32nido32 3 years ago
32doni32nido32
People who are transgender can go ahead and call themselves that, But why should others really care about it (like, Debating if it's "valid" or not)?
There's so much other stuff to focus on.

*Sarcasm alert*
But, I identify as a pajama-wearing Tyrannosaurus Rex who eats Mattress Firm gift cards and occasionally slams a bowl of pasta into my face. And should others really care if I identify as this? Of course! My business is obviously something that everyone else should care about.
And if someone misgenders me and calls me a - oh dare I even say it? - "guy", Should I be offended? Duh, Of course, I should be offended! The worst possible insult is being called the wrong gender; nothing is worse than that. It's not like I could choose NOT to be offended. And, Of course, I should be focusing on people calling me the right gender and get triggered when they don't. I mean, I've had a tough life, But something as bad as misgendering is unforgivable and will cause me tremendous amounts of stress for the rest of my life.

Even if someone doesn't think that another person is transgender, Should the subject of disapproval be insulted? No. It's just that people need to find something to be offended about; they haven't had enough drama yet so they create some over a very small opinion that doesn't affect them.
Posted by Cannibal_Rio 3 years ago
Cannibal_Rio
I am confused simply by the fact that transgender is even a word really. From the LGBTQA+ (acronym is ridiculously long) perspective. Someone who was a man but is now a woman is a woman, But even they refer to them as "transgender" or "I'm a transgender woman. " From their own key arguments that the reproduction method doesn't have to remain a fixation to the definition it's just off putting when people who are transgender say they're transgender and not that they are the sex they attempted to make themselves into.
Posted by TheEmmyTree 3 years ago
TheEmmyTree
I think this issue is a bit iffy, Because in high school there used to be people who claimed to be "transgender" for attention just like when it was real popular for straight kids to claim to be "bisexual" to be unique. However I think being transgender is a real thing and believe it"s a rare medical condition and not just something you can randomly wake up in the morning and start doing. I totally believe in calling someone who"s been diagnosed with gender dysmorphia the correct pronouns.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
bcortezAthiasTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff half of the rounds. This is poor conduct.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.