The Instigator
Zidane
Pro (for)
The Contender
DNehlsen
Con (against)

Trinity is not logical and biblical

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 8/26/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 423 times Debate No: 103680
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Zidane

Pro

Some of my 'old' debates usually ended up because of my bad, or my opponent's. So I'm challenging people, again, to accept this if you're a trinitarian. I'm still a student, a learner, so please correct me if I use wrong grammar or spelling.

So let's get into the point. To prove that God does not exist as trinity, here are some biblical verses :

+ Jesus have a God (Please recognize the use of the word 'our')
- "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
- "Jesus answered, "The first is, "Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one;" (Mark 12:29) Confirming Moses's teaching, and teach it with exactly the same way.
"Then the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that "he is one, and besides him there is no other";" (Mark 12:32), confirming Mark 12:29 and the one God.
"When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." After that no one dared to ask him any question" (Mark 12:34), Jesus confirm the confirmation of the 'scribe'.

+ Jesus was sent by God (meaning he is a messenger)
- "And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
- "I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do." (John 17:4)

And some questions for my opponent :
- If Jesus was sent, how come he is the sender?
- If the Father is God, the Word is God, and the Spirit is God, while they're distinct from each other (they even 'talk to/send' one another) why only one God?
- If Jesus was fully man and fully God, wasn't he supposed to inherit 100% of man's nature and 100% of God's nature?
Those three questions, I hope that my opponent will answer them, along with his/her/their opening statement.

My point : Either Jesus is not God, or the bible contradicted.

Very simple rules Round 1 : Opening statement
Round 2&3 : Rebuttal
Round 4 : Closing Statement (to be continued if no one's satisfied)

Please refute and Thank you for your time.
DNehlsen

Con

Something is said to be univocal when it means the same thing regardless of the subject. Something is said to be equivocal when it may mean different thing depending on the subject to which it is applied. Something is said to be Analogous when it may be applied to several subjects having something in common and something different from each other.

The concept of the Trinity is not univocal, as this would violate the law of non-contradiction. Trinitarianism teaches that God is three in one sense and one in another.

The Bible teaches that God is one, this is seen in many of the verses my opponent has presented. The Bible also, however, teaches that God is three as well.

Genesis 1:26 reads: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." Who is this text referring to? Well it certainly wasn't the angels. Genesis 1:27 reads: "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." God made us in his image alone. When God said that he was going to make man in 'our' image, he couldn't have been referring to anyone else but the other members of the trinity.

John 10:30 says "I and the father are one." This is Jesus speaking.

Matthew 1:23 reads: "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel (which means “God with us”)." The Bible says that the name of Jesus means God with us. How could this be true if Jesus was not God?

Matthew 3:16-17 reads: "As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Here we see all three persons of God. The Spirit of God decended like a dove, God the Father spoke from heaven, and said, regarding Jesus, "This is my son." God the Father said that Jesus Christ was his son.

John 3:16 says that Jesus was God's "Only begotten son."

I could list many more passages, but Scripture clearly teaches the doctrine of the trinity. Now, to answer some of your questions.

If Jesus was sent, how come he is the sender?
John 6:38 says: "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me." Jesus was the sent, not the sender. This makes perfect sense in light of the trinity.

If the Father is God, the Word is God, and the Spirit is God, while they're distinct from each other (they even 'talk to/send' one another) why only one God?
The Trinity is three in one sense, but one in another. God identifies himself as 'I AM,' or Yahweh. God is so much bigger than our limited selves, why should he be confined to one being? The doctrine of the trinity is a complex one, but why should we expect to know everything about God? If we did, he wouldn't be God.

Isaiah 55:8-9:
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.

“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

If Jesus was fully man and fully God, wasn't he supposed to inherit 100% of man's nature and 100% of God's nature?
Yes, this is true. If Jesus was not fully God he would be sinful and thus insufficient to pay our debt. If Jesus was not fully man, he would not be able to pay the debt of another man.

The Bible teaches that ordinary man is inherently sinful because of Adam's sin. Sin is a condition before it is an action.

Job 25:4: How then can a mortal be righteous before God? How can one born of woman be pure?

Romans 5:12: Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

The Bible also teaches that we would not be able to be saved if that perfect being did not manifest himself in the flesh.

Hebrews 9:22: In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

If Jesus was not 100% man and 100% God, how could he pay our debt?

"My point : Either Jesus is not God, or the bible contradicted."
This is simply incorrect. As I've shown, using scripture, Jesus was God.

I look forward to my opponents rebuttal. Thank you for your attention thus far.

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Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by ChrisL 9 months ago
ChrisL
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