The Instigator
Red_Fox
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
billsands
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Trump Is Not a Liar

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Red_Fox
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 716 times Debate No: 119267
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

Red_Fox

Pro

The Washington Post started tracking President Trump's "lies" very early in his presidency--perhaps even before he was elected. Routinely, Friends and media outlets tell me variations on this theme: "Trump is a liar! "

In this debate, I would like to discuss one or both of these two positions:

Position #1 (general): President Trump doesn't lie (in all its shades and varieties) in a manner worthy of special tracking. His lack of complete honesty is in line with the mainstream of US politicians and media outlets nowadays.

Position #2 (specific): President Trump's "worst" lies pale in comparison with President Obama's worst.

Please let me know which argument you would like to start with.
billsands

Con

It has been estimated and documented quite accurately that he lies an average of twelve times a day, That isnt even in dispute, They tract his lies with radar every day he gets fact checked and he lies and lies and lies, He is the enegizer bunny of fibbing, He is a pathogical liar in fact. He is the worst, In a world of liars, Politicians, He is the master. King of the Hill.
Debate Round No. 1
Red_Fox

Pro

WashPo's tracker of Trump's lies stands at 6, 420 (1). Sounds bad until you look at the data.

WashPo highlights the most repeated lie in their database. Representing a full 2% of all of Trump's so-called lies, Feast your eyes on this *horrendous assault against truth*: "There was no collusion. There was never any collusion" (2). WashPo calls THIS a lie? Their Fact Checker's explanation: Mueller hasn't made his report yet (3). Apparently, Anything Trump says about it will be a lie.

Publicly defending oneself cannot be the same thing as lying! This removes ALL credibility from WashPo's list according to Debate. Org: "Using fake facts destroys your credibility" (4). In a silly way, Fact Checkers only accept claims as true if they can find another source for the info. Too often this standard is insufficient.

(1, 2, & 3) https://www. Washingtonpost. Com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/? Utm_term=. 0728f131ae69
(4) https://www. Debate. Org/help/articles/tips-for-a-better-debate/
billsands

Con

He gets caught lieing dozens times a day by fact checkers and then he is so brazen about his lies he doubles down on them, I think mueller who is a republican too is just an honest cop doing his job the best he can by the book, Trump is a croos between a mob boss and your generic white colloar criminal, And he lies
Debate Round No. 2
Red_Fox

Pro

In round 2, I demolished everyone's source that Trump is a liar: WashPo's list is full of clearly non-lies. Probably nothing on their list is a real lie. My opponent's Round 2 response was just a rehash of his Round 1 rant. So, I will respond to some of the side comments.

======== "If we're talking sheer numbers of lies, Trump dwarfs any President I think we've ever had. " ========
Says who? Does WashPo have a tracker for Obama's lies, Bush's lies, Clinton's lies? -Nope. We can't know how his lying compares without having comparable lists.

======== "Everyone lies. " ========
This is my exact point: Trump is just another one of the everyone that lie. Why should his lies be tracked when no one else's have been? I assert that Trump doesn't lie in a manner worthy of special tracking. His lack of complete honesty is in line with the mainstream of US politicians and media outlets nowadays.

========/========
There is an assumption of innocence without WashPo's credibility. Burden to you!
billsands

Con

billsands forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Red_Fox

Pro

Please, Will anyone challenge me on this topic so that we can have a more complete discussion?
billsands

Con

the man lies every day everyone says so and everyone knows that, Grow up
Debate Round No. 4
Red_Fox

Pro

My opponent asks me to "grow up. " I would think that the grown-up thing to do on a debate forum would be to actually debate. I have made a salient point, And my opponent ignores it. I challenge him to respond with a rebuttal or a counter argument. He does still have 1 last opportunity to do so.

For others, If you prefer to leave the burden of proof on me, Post a comment that you are open to a new challenge.
billsands

Con

https://www. Politifact. Com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/
All False statements involving Donald Trump
False

Unclear where number comes from

Donald Trump
DONALD TRUMP

Says the United States loses "250 Billion Dollars a year on illegal immigration, Not including the terrible drug flow. Top Border Security, Including a Wall, Is $25 Billion. Pays for itself in two months. "

— PolitiFact National



Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
Everyone lies.
Even the President of the USA.
The only problem would be if people who do lie are not held accountable.
Not if he lies only if the consequence is just and appropriate.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
Taken from Newsweek 11/20/18
WHY DOES PRESIDENT TRUMP GET AWAY WITH LYING? | OPINION

Most politicians lie. Or do they?

Even if we could find some isolated example of a politician who was scrupulously honest "former President Jimmy Carter, Perhaps" the question is how to think about the rest of them.

And if most politicians lie, Then why are some Americans so hard on President Donald Trump?

According to The Washington Post, Trump has told 6, 420 lies so far in his presidency. In the seven weeks leading up to the midterms, His rate increased to 30 per day.

This is me talking now. . . In other words Trump is the worst president of all time and a complete jacka$$ and full of s--t.

You attack Obama? Let's look at that. A discreet test was given between the two and no names were given between the two on one test. Then on another names were given of Trump and Obama. Here's what happened. . . On the no name test Obama won by an astounding 88%. When the name test was given Trump won by 73%. Now you think about that one. In other words people hate Obama for absolutely no reason at all without really knowing his policies. They wre so desperate for a change with Trump that they were willing to do ANYTHING to get Obama out. Oh and btw, Clinton won by 4. 2 million votes. Not that she would have done any better, But she wouldn't have said in an interview that only took place last week "What are you grateful for" Trump responds "I'm grateful for me. " What a truly conceited arrogant prick. Here's something else about the piece of s--t.
Fox news "When your"re sitting at the desk, How do you make decisions? I mean do you agonize over them? Do you second guess yourself? "
Trump "I don"t think about it. I don"t think about how I make them. "
Now does that sound like someone you or anybody wants in the big white barn? An idiot that doesn't think about one god damned thing? Oh and yeah that fakery that he believes in god. Nope. And he has -everything- in common with that
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
To argue in favor of Trump here is to have nearly a requirement to say that Trump doesn't 'lie' as much as he is 'wrong. ' Simply put, To say Trump isn't educated or intelligent enough to know what is actually true and that he isn't intelligent enough to lie in favor of his positions.

If we're talking sheer numbers of lies, Trump dwarfs any President I think we've ever had.

Clinton was impeached mainly because he lied about having a blowjob in the office. Is it to him you would compare several of Trump's lies?

I'd need an idea of what you think Obama's worst 'lies' were. I'm unfamiliar with them. Campaign promises broken perhaps, But that is not super convincing as a 'lie. '
Posted by dustryder 3 years ago
dustryder
What do you mean by "worst" lie?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
Red_FoxbillsandsTied
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Total points awarded:30 

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