The Instigator
pali1
Pro (for)
Tied
7 Points
The Contender
Alanrkeeney
Con (against)
Tied
7 Points

Trump is good for America

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/10/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,634 times Debate No: 116427
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (2)

 

pali1

Pro

First off, I would like to say I live in California which, is the most Democratic state. As all of you know that Trump is Republican. I just want to say that my whole family voted for Hillary first in the Elections but, now we have realized that Trump is actually better than Barack Obama and other Presidents by far. I just want to open your guys' eyes so, you can understand that in my opinion, Trump is good so far. Good Luck to my opponent!
Alanrkeeney

Con

Is Trump good for America? This is obviously a pretty hot button issue, but I just don't see the evidence for it. I'll start with the pros he's typically given credit for.

1. The big one is the economy. We've seen the DOW make some impressive jumps, and we've seen a decent number of jobs added into the economy. This is often considered a pretty straightforward, open and shut win for Trump. I don't think it's quite so simple. My problem with citing the DOW as proof of success is that it's also had some pretty serious dips. There just isn't enough data yet. Remember we saw consistent growth in the last 6 years of Obama's presidency. Between the unsteady growth so far this year and a possible looming trade war, it's a little early for a pat on the back. As for job creation, it's been a give and take. A lot of the jobs he's boasted about creating (pipeline jobs, breathing life into the coal industry) seem a lot less sustainable than the jobs he's destroyed (particularly in environmental regulations). The global stage is moving in that direction, and I think it's reckless to ignore that.

2. He is also often given praise for his stance on immigration. His border wall is an impractical waste of money, and our treatment of immigrants/refugees has been inexcusable. It has completely destroyed productive debate on the matter. Before we used to debate how many refugees should/can we let in. We used to debate our immigration policies. The debate has devolved into whether or not we should treat them as human. We're even seeing immigrants have their path to citizenship taken from them. Any pros here are outweighed by the cons.

Sources for point 1:

https://www.marketwatch.com...

Sources for point 2:

https://www.npr.org...

While there are other things he is given credit for, those two seem to be the biggest. Let's take a look at some of the things he's often attacked for.

1. Damaging our worldwide reputation. This seems fairly evident. Even if you disliked Obama's policies, it would be hard to say that the world shows more respect for Trump or America now that it did for Obama or America before his presidency. He has caused strife with our allies. To touch back on immigration, he has caused the UN to question our ethics. Under his presidency we are now considered a declining democracy.

2. He is also blamed for the growing divide in the country. While this is difficult to peg, there's enough evidence to suggest he has stoked those fires intentionally. At his rallies he has openly suggested violence towards the left. Whether he himself is racist or not, his rhetoric and way of speaking has emboldened them.

3. Destabilizing the current government. Again this seems pretty obvious. His presidency has seen more indictments, and resignations than normal by far. He's also seen people who he hand picked for different jobs fall under investigation for various reasons.

Sources for point 1:

http://www.pewresearch.org...

http://www.latimes.com...

https://www.nytimes.com...

Sources for point 2:

http://www.politifact.com...

https://www.independent.co.uk...

Sources point 3:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

https://m.dailykos.com...

http://www.latimes.com...

For now I just want to hit the highlights on some of the bigger points. I'll go into each with more detail as we discuss them.
Debate Round No. 1
pali1

Pro

https://www.usnews.com...

"Trump has the opportunity to solidify his position as the most successful president ever in his first year. He is a hero. Donald Trump is quite honestly saving America. Can you really see Hillary Clinton standing up there without starting WWIII or a nuclear war? Obama- despite being a kind person (or at least that's how the media portrays it), he did and accomplished ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Trump has already given 250,000 new jobs for Americans, he has kicked out a lot of illegal immigrants, he may not have the best way of putting words but he speaks what he thinks and that is very good and very bad. But he has done a lot for the country. He has put more money into the military and that makes us a stronger country and makes it less likely for a terrorist attack. He is going to make a wall that will help out in keeping illegal people out of the country and that will give Americans more jobs and trump is getting our government and country out of debt. President Donald Trump, the current president, should be respected and treated nicely. Unfortunately, the liberals tend to dislike him at a huge degree and lack care for his successes, which include a boosted economy, less illegal immigrants, and more jobs, and pick on his tiny mistakes, THAT EVERYONE MAKES. No, Trump is not a racist, sexist man. Rather, he's a clever businessman that the country needed in order to fix the 10 trillion dollars the US increased in debt under the (Democrat) Obama presidency. Those 8 years proved to cripple America under our noses, and somehow persuaded Americans that he benefited the country overall. This is simply another lie. We cannot only look at Mr. Obama's benefit to the country, which is minimal. These democrats are ignorant to his HUGE mistakes. Once a new, Republican candidate came up, they started hating. They looked for tiny mistakes, when there was very, very, VERY, little. They turned from the great things he's done, and unthankfully ignored those. Now, elites are just slamming Trump for virtually no reason, and are not using facts to back it up. The media follows suit, making incorrect assumptions, such as assuming that America is mostly Democrat (It isn't, about 75% of the country is Republican), Trump had Russia interfere in the 2016 Elections, and abused other people before. This is simply untrue, and is not backed up with real evidence. All they're looking for is coverage and popularity, completely bypassing real facts and common sense. Another main point liberals seem to bring up is how he's a racist who doesn't want immigrants. This is obviously not true. He, in fact, supports immigrants. What he is against, and what the liberals don't think he's against, is the illegal immigrants. These people harm our economy and don't contribute and steal more than an average of over 10,000 dollars each. This is not exactly helping our economy. Trump wants to stop this unnecessary spending, but the liberals refuse. They clearly want us to lose money. The truth is, Trump is the leader we need. Trump has brought millions of Americans into jobs. He's lowered crime, gun, and immigrant problems. The only wall we face now is the liberal wall of lies."

He is a businessman and he knows how to run a country
Alanrkeeney

Con

So that's a lot of text with very few actual points, and no sources. I'm going to try and break it down. Firstly there were some blatant falsehoods. 75% of the country does not identify as Republican. There is no evidence to support that. Gallup keeps a pretty close tab on that, and here is what they've reported recently.
https://news.gallup.com...

You also mentioned the deficit. There were also some falsehoods here. Under Obama the deficit did shoot up in the first two years. There was some shared blame here, but I can't argue that it didn't. On the other hand, it went down for the next six, and didn't begin to rise against until after Trump was elected. To say Trump is handling the deficit better than Obama is simply not true. Maybe if he is in office for another six years his numbers will paint a different story, but for now they simply don't. https://www.usgovernmentspending.com...
Also remember that he created some of that deficit trying to recover from the 2008 economic collapse.

As for jobs, I'll reiterate on what I said in my first post. He's breathing life into the wrong industries. Take a look at the solar industry for example. https://www.reuters.com.... As the world moves towards cleaner energy, those are long term sustainable jobs he's taken away. On the other hand pushing for jobs in coal for instance, is short sighted. http://amp.timeinc.net...

You said he was decreasing gun crime. Again this is false. Flat out by the numbers these last two years were the first two to show an INCREASE after 15 straight years of decline or little change. https://www.cbsnews.com...

I don't really feel I need to elaborate on immigration, because nothing you've said really counters my initial response. It may be down, but the measures he is taking are widely disputed.
Debate Round No. 2
pali1

Pro

I would like to start off by saying that Trump is helping America get jobs because other countries get the jobs in America. If you want other people from other countries to come to America illegally then America will not have Americans and the people who came here legally. Why can't other people from other countries stay in their countries? His border wall is not a waste of money because he is saving the economy. If he builds the border wall then the Mexicans won't be able to come over illegally.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com...
Alanrkeeney

Con

"We shouldn't allow people to come into America because then we will not have Americans". I don't know how to respond to that. I think we probably would. We also shouldn't base our border policies on other countries. Some of them are rather inhumane. I would love to give a more thorough response, but you haven't really talked about anything in any detail. It's not a productive debate to go back and forth with "nuh uh" and "yuh huh". I gave a number of topics to go into detail about, and an article that just lists 81 accomplishments doesn't do much for actual debate.
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by What50 3 years ago
What50
Though I agree with the instigator, con made the better arguments. If I had the ability to vote, I would most definitely vote Con. I also would like to apologize in behalf of DDO, that we are all not intolerant people, who hate trump, and vote biasly. I hope both of you guys get better, and enjoy debating.
Posted by Considerthefollowing 3 years ago
Considerthefollowing
Trump is rasist, and he supports guns
Posted by 101BlackCat 3 years ago
101BlackCat
If u guys r american, then u can fight amongst urselves. I'm Australian, and most australian people think that Trump is bad for the world, so there r no-arguments.
Posted by kwbc 3 years ago
kwbc
You guys really dont know what you're talking about. Your arguments are elementary and devoid of actual fact.
Posted by factandevidence1234 3 years ago
factandevidence1234
You must not know a lot about trump pali1.
Posted by factandevidence1234 3 years ago
factandevidence1234
You must not know a lot about trump pali1.
Posted by factandevidence1234 3 years ago
factandevidence1234
How can you say that trump is good for america? Should i even start a list? Ok.
1. HE SEPARATES FAMILIES
2. He wants to create a wall on the southern border, which is our main food source!!
3. He is racist (it might not seem like it, but his actions are clear)
4. He benefits off of uneducated people.
5. He never really explains how he's going to miraculously change the world (into a worse place than it already is)
6. He is a bully on the media
7. He considers himself 100% correct and cares nothing about anybody else's opinions
8. He says he'll do stuff that he never does
Should I go on?
Posted by Trexx 3 years ago
Trexx
You don't even have to know jack about Trump's policies, stances, or agenda at all... everything you need to know is in OUR government's reaction to what he's doing. If THEY are bucking back on him, spinning the media to blast him, getting the 'sheeple' out there to feel negatively about him, ... that alone tells me everything I need to know... he's doing EXACTLY what needs to be done... with the country as a whole being the focus. No one's saying he's a man for the little guy... but everything he's done so far that's been sensationalized in the media, or people have talked about, I've been like... "hell yeah! right on!" while the other person stands there like... "what?! are you crazy?"

No... YOU are... he's finally dishing out some "tough love" with immigration, cutting some costs (yes, healthcare being one of them... gotta make some sacrifices), finally squaring up with North Korea and responding to the threats they've made for years. Build a wall? Pffff... I'm down. People think it's over-the-top... whaddya think it's gonna take to make some drastic changes with the way things are? Drastic measures? Yep.
Posted by canis 3 years ago
canis
http://www.usdebtclock.org...
Evidence and no assumptions at all.........
Posted by pali1 3 years ago
pali1
Did you not understand what I just said? I just said that it will be good that he is taking debt because he is giving everyone jobs. When he gives the opportunity for them to get jobs he will take tax from them and use the tax to pay off the loan. Plus Trump is using the loan for the infrastructure, not for anything bad. I am just telling you to not assume that after 1 year or 5 years the U.S will be in a big debt because that will not happen. Plus many countries take loans, they probably know what they are doing.
P.S: Provide more evidence next time.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
pali1AlanrkeeneyTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter vote bomb.
Vote Placed by factandevidence1234 3 years ago
factandevidence1234
pali1AlanrkeeneyTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Trump should've never bee president.

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