The Instigator
BiggsBoonj
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
kwbc
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Trump's Wall Should Be Built

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
BiggsBoonj
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/2/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 911 times Debate No: 120586
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (26)
Votes (1)

 

BiggsBoonj

Pro

Donald Trump has proposed building a wall on the US/Mexican border to prevent illegal immigration. This would decrease crime and drugs in the US, And decrease the amount of illegal immigration. Walls work, Period.
kwbc

Con

-----The wall-----
It would be ideal if you had stated which version of trump's wall you are for. The one that spans from coast to coast with a fence covering every meter or a wall that only covers parts of the border? I will be arguing against the first one.

-----Prevention of Illegal Immigration-----

Most illegal immigrants that we have in the USA got here by overstaying their visas and never returned to their countries. They entered through legal ports of entry. A wall would not affect this. The people who are no longer eligible to come into the USA wouldn't turn around because of a wall. You can go over a wall, Through a wall, Under a wall and around and even bribe the BP. The criminals who want to smuggle drugs and people across the border will be slowed down at best and become mainstream at worst.
As for decreasing illegal immigration, It will probably only cause a small dent. There have been tunnels discovered that were 70ft underground and the proposed wall will only go 6-10ft underground. The rate at which these tunnels can be built also outpaces the rate that government agencies discover them.
Ladders and rope can also be used to go over the wall and offroad vehicles can speed up this process.
You also forget that the fence, I mean wall, Can be breached by drills, Saws and chemical agents.
By establishing vehicle openings in the wall you can increase the chances of corruption. Those agents do not earn enough to not be tempted by cartel money.

-----crime-----

Immigrants in general commit less crimes than native born US citizens. Illegal immigrants commit more crimes than legal immigrants, But still lower than us citizens. It's in the best interest of illegal immigrants to not commit crimes to not create a high profile and cause a negative public impression that will turn on them. The more negative attention illegals get the more the public will be against them. It's a simple concept.

-----Drugs-----
I don't like the drugs, But the drugs like me. A wall will not solve drug abuse in the country. It may drive the price up on some drugs, But people will continue to do drugs. The real solution is to prevent drug addiction and provide resources to get people off of drugs. If there wasnt a market for them then they would not be shipped to the USA. Most drugs also enter the country by legal ports of entry via trucks, Shipping containers, Boats, Cars, Pedestrians and planes. Remember that tunnels can also be dug underneath the wall and be transported by tracks. A wall to stop drugs from entering the country is the equivalent of putting a bandage on a. 50 Cal bullet wound.

-----Further issues-----

"Who will fund this wall? Initially orange man said it was going to be mexico, Now its el chapo. We know that the payer will be the american taxpayer, So my question for you is are you willing to pay more taxes for a symbolic monument that does very little? I know I won't support it and neither will most people. How about the long term? Do you know the cost?

"The confiscation of land to build this will cause many people to be cheated on their property and get below market pricing for it. All to build a useless wall.

"Ecological issues. What effect on the environment will this cause? Not every animal can fly over it and migration is a thing that some animals require.

"The wall is more of a symbolic artifact that only serves as a way to tell our southern poor brown people that they are not welcome. I honestly don't believe that anyone willing to travel hundreds and thousands of miles is going to give up the moment they see a wall.

" Like I said previously, A wall doesn't solve anything and only serves to distract us from the actual reason why people want to come here and why drugs are pouring in. We need to help our southern neighbors improve their countries by not invading and overthrowing their democratically elected officials and establishing a beneficial trade system similar to the EU. We also need to address our drug addiction. The drugs won't come here if nobody buys them and most people become addicted by prescription drugs.
Debate Round No. 1
BiggsBoonj

Pro

The Wall's Efficiency:
40-60% of illegal immigrants enter the United States through the Mexican border. 400, 000 illegal immigrants are apprehended at the Mexican border annualy, 260, 000 have already been apprehended this year alone (https://www. Cbp. Gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration). Even if most illegal immigrants don't come throught the Mexican border, That's not an argument against building the wall. A wall would still stop the 40-60% from coming in. Analogy: if you have cancer and a broken leg, Do you ignore the broken leg? No, You treat the broken leg first. Just because we have bigger problems doesn't mean we shouldn't solve smaller problems.
You can't go through and over a wall. A border wall would have security guards and barbed wire, Which stop such things from happening. The only way to cross the wall would be under it, Through a tunnel. But that's not an argument either! We have walls around prisons, Should we remove walls from prisons because some inmates can build a tunnel under them? No! Most illegal immigrants won't enter through tunnels. Such tunnels would have to start very far from the wall and end very far from the wall, They would be very expensive, Take months at best to build, And would be discovered by the US or Mexican government. Nobody is saying that the wall would stop ALL illegal immigration, But it will stop most.
Illegal immigrants commit more crimes than legal immigrants, But slower than US citizens? So what! If legal immigrants commit less crime that illegal immigrants, Shouldn't all illegal immigrants enter as legal immigrants to decrease crime? Shouldn't we build a wall so illegal immigration will drop, And crime as well? It doesn't matter if illegal immigrants commit less crime than US citizens, THEY STILL COMMIT CRIME. Same analogy as before: if you have cancer and a broken leg, Do you ignore the broken leg?
A wall will decrease the amount of drugs, Period. You're right: the price of drugs will increase. And that would mean that poor people would do less drugs! Increasing the price up so much would stop people from using a product. In the US, For example, Cigarettes are taxed to make them very expensive, Which stops most people from smoking. Increasing the price of a product decreases the demand. Simple supply/demand economics.

Wall Funding:
Even Trump's biggest critics estimate the wall at no more than $25 billion. That is a miniscule amount. The annual US budget is 4 trillion. The US army's budget is a whopping 600 million. ICE gets almost 6 billion a year. Heck, Even NASA gets 21 billion! Compared to other government projects and organizations, A wall is almost free. Plus, Building a wall would mean the ICE budget could be significantly reduced!
The funding from the wall is a more difficult issue. President Trump has proposed that we use money from the $180 billion trade deficit of Mexico. But like I said before, It doesn't matter where we get the money, The price of the wall is tiny compared to the annual budget. So even if the money came from American taxpayers, Price isn't really a problem.

Illegal Immigration:
Nobody should be allowed to enter the United States without the government's permission. The US isn't morally obliged to let anyone enter: not illegal immigrants, Not refugees, Not legal immigrants, Only US citizens. Illegal immigrants commit crime and increase the US crime rate. They also steal jobs from US citizens. Illegal immigrants are very poor, So employees can pay them almost nothing and fire US citizens which demand more. Eventually, Most low-level jobs will be taken over by illegal immigrants. US citizens that hold these jobs now will lose them. That doesn't happen because illegal immigrants are better workers or because they do jobs that US citizens won't do: it happens simply because illegal immigrans want less money.

The facts don't agree with you. 40-60% of illegal immigration will be stopped by a border wall. Places on the Mexican border with fences have lower illegal immigration. Walls have worked everywhere: in prisons, In foreign countries, Even in your house. Building a wall wouldn't automatically solve the border crisis, But it would decrease it by a lot. A wall is also very cheap to construct. Trump's wall should be built as soon as possible, In order to decrease illegal immigration and solve the current border crisis.
kwbc

Con

kwbc forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
BiggsBoonj

Pro

My opponent has forfeited. If he wants, He can continue the debate. If not, He loses.
kwbc

Con

kwbc forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
BiggsBoonj

Pro

OK, He lost.
kwbc

Con

kwbc forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
@omar2345 Stop assuming. Stop nitpicking. If you want to debate, Make your own debate.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@BiggsBoonj

"Get over it. Stop saying I need help and stop nitpicking everything I say. "
Don't you want to improve on debating? Why are you here? Just to confirm your biases? I am helping you by saying quote the original source not the news which is giving their opinion on it. I also told you to provide evidence for you claim "This would decrease crime and drugs in the US, And decrease the amount of illegal immigration. Walls work, Period. " You could say I will provide evidence for my claim in the next Round but you didn't.

"Make your own debate and I'll join it, If you want to debate me. "
Why can't you if kwbc forfeits?
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
Like I said, Get over it. Stop saying I need help and stop nitpicking everything I say. Stop assuming. Make your own debate and I'll join it, If you want to debate me.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@BiggsBoonj

"are you just angry that I destroyed you about Islam and Christianity? "
You need help. Your didn't use the original source. Try and do it here if you can.

"Get over it and stop attacking me for tiny things. Leave me alone man! "
I am challenging you to a debate. Are you say scared that your feelings might get hurt?
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
@omar2345 are you just angry that I destroyed you about Islam and Christianity? Get over it and stop attacking me for tiny things. Leave me alone man!
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@BiggsBoonj

He/She has 2 days.
By the way if he/she does forfeit make a new debate. Start the debate in Round 1. Give your arguments in Round 1 so that it doesn't become an acceptance Round.
Posted by BiggsBoonj 3 years ago
BiggsBoonj
@kwbc ok man where you at? Come on post your argument
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@kwbc

Make me proud.
Posted by kwbc 3 years ago
kwbc
More than capable Omar2345. I will win this debate, And BiggsBoonJ will pay for it!
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
You will also start off with your arguments in Round 1 while also starting the debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bzdogs 3 years ago
bzdogs
BiggsBoonjkwbcTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited therefor, they lost.

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