The Instigator
squeakly54n6
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
Anonymous
Tied
0 Points

Trumps wall isn't the best solution to illegal immigration

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/4/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 786 times Debate No: 120158
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

squeakly54n6

Pro

I would like to start off by stating that I am NOT against border security, I think it is rather important that only mentally stable people who will obey the law be let into the country. However I am rather uncertain about this notion that the border wall is the best solution to the immigration problem. I am however very open to having my mind changed. All of that being said I am going to now present my argument for why a border wall across Mexico isn't the best solution to the illegal immigration problem.
- The amount of illegal immigrants stemming from over stayed visas has increased from 41 percent in 2008 to now 44 percent in 2018. While the rate of illegal immigrants on foot has dropped considerably ever since trump enacted stronger border patrol laws. SOURCES, Https://www. Nbcnews. Com. . .
https://www. Factcheck. Org. . .
- Furthermore once the wall is build who is to say that many will simply dig tunnels or come in through boat. One could make the argument that boats and tunnels are too hard to make and most will come in on foot. However as Ive already previously stated, The amount of illegal immigrants coming in on foot has dropped considerably while the amount from over stayed visas is rising so it would be a better long term investment to spend that 21 billion dollars and invest it into enforcing expired visas. SOURCES, Https://www. Nytimes. Com. . .
- Another one of my problems with building a wall is that the federal government would take away PRIVATE land to build said wall as seen in this article where Texas landowners are trying desperately to keep their land. SOURCE, Https://www. Washingtonpost. Com. . .
- My last major issue with the wall is the yearly upkeep required for the wall. While I could not find any statistics for how much the upkeep will cost, I could imagine it would be somewhere in the millions as you would need building materials, Vehicles for transport, And a large staff required for the nearly 2, 000 mile long wall assuming it gets built.
All of that said while I will agree that a border wall would prevent some illegal immigrants from entering the country, Enforcing the people with expired visas and investing in more border patrol agents would be a better solution to the issue at hand. These 2 methods would also be significantly cheaper than building a 21 billion wall with millions more being spent on the upkeep. Like I previously stated in the beginning, I am very open to my mind be changed.

Con

I look forward to a good debate.

first argument response-The reason for the increase for visa-stayed immigrants is for Democrats defunding ICE.

second argument response- ok, Many people can just say, Oh they can build tunnels. Let's look at statistics

"Part of our area is covered with some fencing on our east side. That accounts for about 6 percent of our traffic, " Border Patrol chief Raul Ortiz told journalists during President Trump"s January 10 visit to Rio Grande Valley, Texas. "Where we have no fencing, Over 90 percent of our traffic occurs in those areas. " A day earlier, Ortiz added, 450 people were apprehended in the unfenced sector, Including 133 from such non-Latin nations as India, Pakistan, And Romania.

" Some 560, 000 illegals were caught astride San Diego and Tijuana in Fiscal Year 1992 when a border wall was installed there. By FY 2017, The Border Patrol says it snared 26, 086 "" down 95. 3 percent.

" A barrier between the Tucson, Ariz. , Sector and Nogales, Mexico, Was erected in 2000. That year"s 616, 346 arrests plunged to 38, 657 in FY 2017 "" down 93. 7 percent.

A fence installed at the border between Yuma, Arizona, And Los Algodones, Mexico brought apprehensions from 138, 438 in FY 2005 to 12, 847 in FY 2017 "" down 90. 7 percent.

"Crime has significantly decreased in the Yuma area, " then""acting homeland security secretary Elaine Duke wrote in USA Today in August 2017, "and smugglers now look for other less difficult areas of the border to cross "" often areas without fencing. "

" A 150-mile barrier between Israel and southern Egypt cut the number of illegal-alien entrants from 17, 000 in 2011 to 43 in 2013, After the fence"s completion, Israel"s Ministry of the Interior states "" down 99. 7 percent.

" Bulgaria erected a barrier on its Turkish perimeter in 2013. That year"s 11, 000 illegal crossings dropped to 4, 000 in 2014 "" down 63. 6 percent.

" Just as British Gibraltar dangles from Spain"s underside, Spanish Ceuta and Melilla surf atop Morocco. Multiple fences and barriers there sliced 2014"s 2, 100 arrests at the Spanish-territorial/Moroccan frontier to 2015"s 100 "" down 95. 2 percent.

Former and current senators Joe Biden, Tom Carper, Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, Debbie Stabenow, And Ron Wyden were among the 26 Democrats who voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006. It authorized 700 miles of double fence. All 54 Senate Democrats voted unanimously in June 2013 for $46 billion in border security, Including 350 miles of new steel fence.

This is a case of Trump-Derangement Syndrome. "
https://www. Nationalreview. Com/2019/01/border-walls-democrat-partisan-politics/

The Point and argument is- Walls Work

There have been multiple cases of Government taking private land for a greater cause. New Jersey Turnpike just to name one.
The people are paid back.

The yearly keep up for the wall will be cheaper than original border security. Instead of focusing on agents to pay, To monitor, Etc, Etc. We have drones and a fundamental barrier.

Sidenote: Pelosi's shutdown has cost more than the wall itself and she has a wall around her mansion. She takes eight-day trips to other countries during a shutdown.

Now the Biggest factor everybody forgets: Drugs

Drugs make up 80% of gun crime and are a growing issue. More Americans died from drugs in the past 3 years than all the Americans who died in Vietnam-a 20 year conflict.

"Data on drug seizures at the U. S. Border indicate an alarming volume of trafficking taking place in recent years. Since 2009, Heroin seizures at the southwestern border have almost tripled, While meth seizures quintupled through 2014. Worse yet, Cocaine and marijuana remain two of the most commonly seized drugs along our southern borders, Equating to millions of pounds seized by U. S. Border Patrol.

Since 2012, The number of traffickers apprehended at U. S. Borders has steadily increased from 364, 768 to nearly 500, 000 in 2014. From 2012 to 2015 the U. S. Border Patrol has seized more than:

8. 2 million lbs. Of marijuana
32, 600 lbs. Of cocaine
34, 000 ounces of heroin
17, 600 lbs. Of methamphetamine

Recently, Border Customs released a report saying that they busted the biggest fetanlyol crossing ever. The substance was enough to kill 100 MILLION people.

90% of heroin comes from our Southern Border.

In 2010, The FBI released a statement detailing the southwestern border and Mexico"s involvement in the illicit drug trade within the United States. At the time, Mexico was the No. 1 foreign supplier of marijuana. While Mexico produces no cocaine, The cartels do move Colombian cocaine through South and Central America into the U. S. Through Mexico.

Mexico is also the largest supplier of methamphetamine. The country has labs established on both sides of the border that are controlled by Mexican drug cartels. Although Asia and the Middle East were the largest producers of heroin, 39% of heroin identified by DEA signature programs originated from Mexico, Making the southwest border the source for many heroin overdoses west of the Mississippi River.

Today, The data show the majority of marijuana drug trafficking still takes place along the southwest border. The coastal borders (Miami, New Orleans, Ramey) see a great deal of traffic but the emphasis is largely on marijuana and cocaine, Suggesting the coastal borders are secondary channels largely for Colombian cartels that push these primary drugs from South America.

The government works tirelessly to counter the influx of illicit drugs, With drug trafficking falling under federal law and carrying a felony sentence ranging anywhere from five years to life in prison. Any individual can be charged with trafficking if authorities believe there is intent to sell. Charges can also be escalated to distribution depending on the quantity of drugs found.

Data from CPB. Org collected since 2012 shows that border patrol and government agencies are doing an exceptional job at slowing the importation of illicit drugs into the U. S. At our southern borders. Texas and Arizona hold the highest rate of seizures, Totaling more than 7 million pounds of drugs seized by authorities from 2012 to 2014. This region has required a focused effort because South America has long been a primary source for cocaine and marijuana.

Unfortunately, Despite the high volume of seizures, Drugs are still finding their way across and have a profound impact in many states along southern and coastal borders.

In 2014 alone, California had the highest incidences of drug-related deaths at 4, 521. It was followed closely by Florida (2, 634) and Texas (2, 601). Arizona, However, Is an exception; with the highest seized drug volume and only 1, 211 drug-related deaths in 2014. This is a clear indication that search and seizure by U. S. Border Patrol and local authorities have been highly effective in that region.

While the volume of drugs flowing into the U. S. Through northern borders is considerably less, With fewer recorded seizures, There still remains a threat in those regions. Data shows us that some northern states are hit just as hard by drug trafficking. In 2014, Drug-related deaths in some areas of the north rivaled those of southern border states including Ohio (2, 744 deaths), Pennsylvania (2, 732 deaths) and New York (2, 300 deaths).

Search and seizure programs have effectively stopped millions of pounds of illicit drugs from entering the U. S. , But there"s clearly more to be done to protect the youth of America and limit the volume of drugs traveling deeper into our cities.

The majority of drugs appear to travel by land, With 59% of total drugs seized attributed to Border Patrol efforts in the U. S. And abroad. Over the years these efforts have forced smugglers to turn to maritime routes to move illicit drugs around the globe. '

https://drugabuse. Com/featured/drug-trafficking-across-borders/

I look forward to your response
Debate Round No. 1
squeakly54n6

Pro

- Regarding your first points about how walls work I am not arguing that walls do not work, I am arguing that the wall Trump is imposing isn't the best solution to the issue of illegal immigration. Besides even if the wall would work, This doesn't change the fact that illegal immigration by foot has decreased in the past decade so why would we spend billions of dollars on a cause that is already being solved? Instead we should invest on the ever growing amount of illegal immigrants by overstayed visas.

" There have been multiple cases of Government taking private land for a greater cause. New Jersey Turnpike just to name one.
The people are paid back. "

- If you are of the train of thought that the government taking away private land unwillingly for the greater good is moral, Than you should also support the banning of alcohol, Drugs, Guns, Or the redistribution of wealth.
Also the people whom Trump is taking away land from aren't paid back as many of the Texans homes, Ranches, And farms are being taken away.

" The yearly keep up for the wall will be cheaper than original border security. Instead of focusing on agents to pay, To monitor, Etc, Etc. We have drones and a fundamental barrier. "
- The wall would cost billions while the security for the wall would only cost millions. Besides once again why would we invest in a wall when border security is already doing a good job?

" Now the Biggest factor everybody forgets: Drugs"

- This debate is on illegal immigration NOT drugs. However even so the majority of drugs smuggled across are through boat and through the air. Not to mention that the majority of illegal drugs by foot are smuggled through tunnels and hidden in vehicles. Drug cartels in Mexico have a vast amount of money and resources at their disposal why would they walk their drugs across?

" Since 2012, The number of traffickers apprehended at U. S. Borders has steadily increased from 364, 768 to nearly 500, 000 in 2014. From 2012 to 2015 the U. S. Border Patrol has seized more than:

8. 2 million lbs. Of marijuana
32, 600 lbs. Of cocaine
34, 000 ounces of heroin
17, 600 lbs. Of methamphetamine"
- This proves my point which is that border patrol is already doing a good enough job so why would we invest in a wall?

" The majority of drugs appear to travel by land, With 59% of total drugs seized attributed to Border Patrol efforts in the U. S. And abroad. Over the years these efforts have forced smugglers to turn to maritime routes to move illicit drugs around the globe. "

- Once again why would we invest in a wall when border patrol is already doing a good enough job stopping drugs and illegal immigrants? Besides as Ive already pointed out the majority of drugs are through boats, Tunnels, Air, And hidden in vehicles, All of which a wall wouldn't prevent.

Con

Rebuttals:

5 billion is less than 10% of the 1% of the money the Government has. This is an inexpensive project. People who overstay their visa are deported, However ICE the organization that has been defunded by the Democrats. People who overstay their visa are also less likely to commit a crime and just need to get their visa reevaluated.

Banning drugs is good. Banning guns isn't for the better.

"border security is already doing a good job? "

You know Why? - We already have hundreds of miles of fencing and as we build more fences, We get less illegal immigrants.

However even so the majority of drugs smuggled across are through boat and through the air. Wrong. 59% comes through land.

Trump's wall includes a series of chokepoints where 1 Billion dollars will go to the drug security there.

More arguments

God "fixed the borders of the peoples" (Deuteronomy 32:8) and delineated the borders of the Promised Land (Numbers 34:1-15; Ezekiel 47:13-23). We are to guard ourselves against those who would harm us (Luke 11:21; Proverbs 25:26; Nehemiah 4:17-18).

No, Pope Francis, A wall is not anti-Christain.
Debate Round No. 2
squeakly54n6

Pro

" 5 billion is less than 10% of the 1% of the money the Government has. This is an inexpensive project. "

- Actually that 5 billion is just for the security for the wall, The actual wall itself is estimated to cost 70 billion dollars. This is not even including the yearly upkeep which is estimated to cost 150 million dollars a year to maintain. This is anything but an " inexpensive project" especially for a country trillions of dollars in debt.

" Banning drugs is good. Banning guns isn't for the better. "

- My main point was that if you're fine with sacrificing individual rights for the greater good, Than you should support wealth redistribution, National healthcare, And banning all drugs.

" However even so the majority of drugs smuggled across are through boat and through the air. Wrong. 59% comes through land. "

- You completely missed my point which is that yes 59 % comes from land however that 59 % is hidden in vehicles or through tunnels. All of which a wall wouldn't prevent.

Once again I am sadly unable to link my sources which is complete bull$hit. I find it funny how debate. Org gets angry at me linking sources and yet when I lose my original account they fail to respond.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
DeletedUser
i can post my argument I will post a shortened version here tommroow
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
DeletedUser
It wnt let me post my argument and I saved it so I will try again later.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
@Dr. Franklin
Yeah I know they need to fix their $hit
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
DeletedUser
Just noticed. Debate, Org is really in a bad state.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
@Dr. Franklin
I don't know if you already saw but it deleted your round 3
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
Once again the link didn't work. I have NO idea why the links to my sources or to my drive aren't working, If anyone as a solution please PM me with to the solution. Until than I am unable to post links to my sources.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
If anyone is interested in my sources for round 2 I have a link to a google drive document.
https://docs. Google. Com/document/d/1fK4O5Jn5sSH_tTBiGl0ADofAEDQhG4sAZGiWYamyiXs/edit? Usp=sharing
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
@Dr. Franklin
Once again I was unable to post my sources, My apologies.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
OK so apparently I cannot comment what my sources are for some reason. I am sorry but whoever wants to look at my sources will just have to look them up. My apologies.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
squeakly54n6
I am sorry but my sources wouldn't work on my argument so I will link them below in order of appearance, My apologies.
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