The Instigator
Medievalwarfare
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Nartnod7875
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Truth

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/4/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 688 times Debate No: 118458
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

Medievalwarfare

Pro

One thing that has been a major concept of life is the idea of "truth. " Truth is what we should base our lives off of and is the "right" compared to the "wrong" we do. Yet, How do we define what is right and is the truth?

I offer two ways to decide what is the truth. First is history. By looking at the past, We can see what actions warranted certain consequences. Through that we can say, For example, That lies, Overtime, Build to a breaking point that causes consequences based upon the severity of the lies. In this example and other examples, We can use history to learn what things to avoid so we do not receive consequences we do not wish to receive.

The other way is through logical reasoning. If you look at a situation objectively, You can look at the risks and possible consequences without your thoughts being corrupted by emotion or the thoughts of others. What do you want and is it worth it? That is the question you will be asking.

If you disagree or want to qualify my point of view, You are open to do so.
Nartnod7875

Con

I agree that the value of Truth is an essential component to human existence. It is also a characteristic of the universe. The vast cosmos and the highest point of understanding it can never be altered or tampered with. It is only our view that can be decieved, For we are surrounded by illusion, Chaos and havoc. According to the Nine Commentaries, Lies are always altered and rearranged, But the truth can never change. In other words, Human society may change it's understanding of morality, But the universe's criterion of Truth remains absolute.

Your methods of finding truth, However, Is not effective or reasonable. History is NOT an viable way of deciding what truth is. While the study of history might seem objective with all the names and numbers, It is virtually impossible that the truth behind those facts have survived over the years and those who write the history lessons are truthful. In Communist China, The education system has lied to its students about their nation's origins. One, They have completely destroyed and eradicated traditional Chinese culture. Two, They write in their textbooks on how the Chinese Communist military were heroic in their battle against Japanese invaders. But the truth is, They never did fight. They caused uproar and chaos among the proletariat and always made problems for the ones who were actually fighting. The real fighters were the Nationalists who were driven out of China by the Communists after they fought off the Japanese and exhausted all their resources. All those kids in China are taught this and most of them think it's the truth, But it is not. History is written by humans, And humans have the capacity to both lie and tell the truth, To be right and be wrong. It is not always certain that what you are being told is the truth, Unless you can travel through time and confirm it. It isn't certain what you're being told is false either, But if we are wrong, We all pay a price.
Even if you did know the real historical consequences, What makes you think that your choice of not repeating that historical consequence is right? Who or what gave you the mentality that bombing another country is wrong or taking weapons away from the masses is wrong? Society and collective moral standards. But you know what, Society changes all the time and the collective moral standards of the masses are not definitive. At one point a society could be aligned with the truth. At another point, It is far from it.

The perspective of humans are never objective or ultimate. If it were, We would be agreeing to everything. If you are influenced by facts instead of emotions, You can still be wrong. Science has many conventional theories and deductive methods that are being modified, Altered, Corrected and changed CONSTANTLY. Remeber how I told you the truth never changes? Ordinary humans are so flawed. They can never have a firm grasp on what the truth is with the medthods that they use and at the pace they're going.

My suggestion on finding truth is to look inward. Don't look at other people or seek truth in society. Tell the truth, Do things truthfully, And be an honest person. Cultivate yourself so that you can become one with the universe.
Debate Round No. 1
Medievalwarfare

Pro

You, My dear opponent, Speak wisely. You have enlightened me to the importance of trusting yourself when finding the truth. However, For the sake of argument, I will continue my point. Yes, History is shifted by humans despite what the truth may bring, But there is still much to learn from it. You can find the lies in history using your inner feelings. If something seems like a lie in history, Then it may well be. Trusting in a high power also helps, But looking it history and adapting it is also key.

Being 100% objective is not possible for the average person, But it is still better to attempt this mindset when deciding right from wrong. Focusing too much on emotions will hamper your thinking and drive you further from the truth. I also think science isn"t a good alternative to finding truth.

So, I agree with you on most of these things, But you can not throw out reasoning and history when dealing with the human world and it"s flaws.
Nartnod7875

Con

I am a cultivator. Not of land, But of myself. Which means I practice improving my health and elevating my mind. It is a great way to live, I suggest you try it. Message me if you'd like to know more.

My counter might not be fully sound, Though I appreciate your comment. After all, If you live in a country that observes the right to freedom of speech and of the press, You are able to learn history from multiple sources, Thereby deciphering the truth. But then again, The sources themselves might not be true, So I wouldn't risk it. However, I do agree that history serves as a good reminder for the benefit of ORDINARY human civilization. For instance, The slave system was immoral and we learned that is reprehensible to enslave other humans. However, According to the universe(which is extraordinary), No matter how terrible this may sound, There might be reason why those people were treated that way and to not enslave them would contradict the universe, Which holds the ultimate truth. (Its quite complicated, But if you want me to explain more. . . ) But still, In the eyes of ordinary human society, Equality and humanitarian ideals are good enough and everyone/most people love the idea. Everyone's happy. But you know what they say ignorance is bliss.

I see what you're saying. Within the boundaries of our minute wisdom, We humans have our own idea of what it is like to be objective and indifferent, Though it is impossible to be 100% objective since almost everything we know is not definitive. We shouldn't approach a situation with emotions but with logic, But that will not help us find truth, But rather the "truth" that sience, Religion and society has established. If we think with logic, We will only come up with "truths" that those three systems permit us to call a truth.

The ultimate truth, You must find for yourself, Without external interference. Look internally.
Debate Round No. 2
Medievalwarfare

Pro

I agree with you and am happy you were the one to bring this into the light in this argument. I would like to hear more about how you have learned your personal truths and grown yourself through knowledge of the universe. Wisdom is powerful and only through conversation can we learn from others. Thank you for this good debate.
Nartnod7875

Con

Im glad that you are open to my ideas. The fact that you have not blatantly dismissed my view proves that you are not pulled in by the current that modern civilization has made for people.

However, For me to share my understanding and interpretations of the universe comes with a couple of problems. First, I am a practitioner whose been doing this for four years. I have learned a lot but my level is still not high enough to know everything. I think this is obvious because if I WAS at an extremely high level, I wouldn't bother to be on this platform. It is not really my place to teach you to the Way, Because in my practice, There's only one teacher. Second, The things I share might not be approved by the people who read it because the many principles are not acknowledged by the scientific community.

If you wish to know more, You can message me. Have a great day!
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Nartnod7875 2 months ago
Nartnod7875
So why don't you explain and educate me so that I do understand? It's not impossible. Might not be probable that I agree, But to understand your viewpoint, Yeah. But if you're going to repeat the same thing, It's not gonna get us anywhere. I'm really curious to hear more from you.
Posted by canis 2 months ago
canis
Hi. You want me to explain What you do not understand. I would never have luck with that.
"Only facts exist. Truth is our imagination and manipulation of facts and non facts. "
Posted by Nartnod7875 2 months ago
Nartnod7875
How is it a confirmation? Can you not explain?
Posted by canis 2 months ago
canis
No repeating means that you keep repeating the same confirmations of the statement. Not challange it, ( and you can't):
"Only facts exist. Truth is our imagination and manipulation of facts and non facts. "
Posted by Nartnod7875 2 months ago
Nartnod7875
@canis Repeating the same things means you do not have an elaborate explanation for your rebuttal.
Posted by canis 2 months ago
canis
That is so much "truth". .
Posted by missmedic 2 months ago
missmedic
I think the fundamental difference between these two expressions of believer and nonbeliever is the difference between the pursuit of truth, And the pursuit of values. And it's a difference that shows up just as often and as loudly among the atheists on this site as it does in among the Christians.

The pursuit of truth is a very high-sounding label for what is much more often the pursuit of righteousness. And more specifically, Of self-righteousness. As what the 'truth-seeker' is really seeking is the presumed right to insist that his own ideas about what is real and what is true be accepted as such by everyone else, Because he believes that anyone that disagrees with him must, By logical default, Be opposing truth (and thereby promoting falsity). Activity that the 'truth-seeker's' ego finds loathsome and unacceptable.

Whereas the pursuit of value is usually far more humble, Social, And practical. It presumes that what works the best for the most, Is better than whatever doesn't, Regardless of whether we can prove it's supposed truthfulness, Or not. These are the Christians who believe in Christianity because it helps them to be better, Happier people, And who understand and respect the choice of others to do the same, Or not to. We rarely encounter these people on sites like this because they are not ideological proselytizers. And they do not presume that their own personal idea of God and truth is "The Truth" that everyone else must accept, Or suffer the consequences for not accepting.
Posted by canis 2 months ago
canis
You always will confirm:
"Only facts exist. Truth is our imagination and manipulation of facts and non facts. "
Posted by Nartnod7875 2 months ago
Nartnod7875
Explain how that confirms your statement.
Posted by canis 2 months ago
canis
Again you just confirm:
"Only facts exist. Truth is our imagination and manipulation of facts and non facts. "
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