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Ultimate Team War: Pandora

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/16/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,777 times Debate No: 20412
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (27)
Votes (1)




This debate, will take place in the human encampment of Pandora, from the movie Avatar.

This is Ultimate Team War. Each debater must assemble a team of five characters, and the teams will then fight to the death(ish). Since we cannot have an actual real-life battle, each debater will explain why their team is superior during this debate.


Team leader: One of the debaters here, i.e. me or my opponent
Team member: One of the five chosen warriors.
Team Pro: My team.
Team Con: My opponent's team.


1. The fight will take place in the planet of Pandora, in the vast range of land covered in the film Avatar.
2. No team member may travel into areas not identified in the film.
3. There will be no demi-god characters that are capable of travelling at ridiculous speeds, shattering almost any barriers in their way sustaining little damage to themselves, and wiping out anything, like Superman or Sentry, or anything more powerful than that. Nor will there be any unlimited powers that cannot be resisted. If you're in doubt, just ask.
4. Other illegal powers include time travel, invincibility, and mind control (taking over an opposing character).
5. Any team member must be either real or, if fictional, verifiably existent. No characters may be made up for the purpose of this debate.
6. In the case of a fictional character, the team member's abilities must be according to a specific canon chosen by the team leader.
7. Every character has only the equipment that they generally have in the specified canon, at almost all times, not equipment they only picked up a few times. They should be in their default state. If a character is arguably two individuals, the debater must pick one and stick with it through the entire debate.
8. Team members are absolutely loyal to the team leader. All team members are still subjected to their own emotions, however.
9. The team leader may not directly participate in the competition, but may only facilitate. The role of the team leader is to explain what the team would do and why it would win against the opposing team.
10. Neither team can have a member in common. If one team leader chooses a team member, the other team cannot have that character.
11. A team wins when all members of an opposing team are dead, unconscious, or essentially unusable. Characters who cannot be dead, unconscious, or unusable are not allowed.
12. The winning team automatically receives Arguments and Sources. Conduct, in addition to regular things, goes to the person who follows the rules most effectively. Please remember this rule.

Round 1: Rule specifications; PRO unveils first three team members, CON unveils all five team members. PRO also chooses the location of his team at the start of the fight; CON then chooses a different location at least X meters away from the one picked by PRO (determined based on the location).

Round 2: PRO unveils his final two team members and explains why his team is better. CON also begins his arguments.

Round 3, 4, 5: Arguments and rebuttals. CON may not present any new arguments during round 5, since PRO has no chance to rebut them.

My first three members:

Meta Knight (Kirby series, Kirby anime, Super Smash Bros. series)
A former Star Warrior and a member of Kirby's species, Meta Knight posesses the extremely powerful sword Galaxia, as well as a dimensional cape that can turn him invisible. He is very fast, can can fly using his wings that are created from his dimensional cape. (
Because there is a degree of speculation associated with him in his games, for the purposes of this debate we will assume that the sword he caries is indeed called Galaxia, and that he is indeed Kirby's species. A full range of his sword moves can be found here (
He stands in the Hallelujah Mountains, near the camp the humans set up there in the course of the film.

Makuta Teridax (Bionicle series)
Hard to describe him (probably easier to just read his wiki page). Has 42 unique powers, ability to absorb enemies using a shadow claw. Is in his form right before battling Toa Vakama. Because not doing so would make him broken, his quick-dodging, rapid-healing, and invincibility abilities will be significantly weaker than that page suggests. He is equiped with the Staff of Darkness (
List of powers (
Stands under the Tree of Souls

General Grevious (Star Wars)
Intelligent droid commander. Equiped with four lightsabers, electrostaff, blaster, and grappling hook.
Stands in the remnants of the Hometree of the Na'vi clan portrayed in the film.



Thank you, Mr_Anon, for challenging me to this debate.

My five team members:

1. Harry Potter (book series, epilogue of Deathly Hallows), the Boy Who Lived and the Chosen One, a powerful auror. He posesses a wand and an invisibility cloak, and is most especially skilled in Defense Against the Dark Arts.

2. Magneto (X-MEN comic series), a mutant with the power to manipulate magnetic fields, giving him great control over metal. He is powerful enough to significantly shift the earth's magnetic field and to move mountain-sized objects or larger. "He can completely assemble a complicated machine within seconds through his powers. He can erect magnetic force fields with a high degree of impenetrability protecting himself or others from almost any psionic, energy, or physical attack... Magneto's suit is made of flexible metal bonded on the molecular level, providing protection against projectiles, energy weapons, and concussive force; his helmet also provides further protection from psionic attack." He is also skilled at hand-to-hand combat.

3. Paper Mario (Super Paper Mario), Mr. Nintendo in paper form. His main form of attack is still jumping, but he has the power to flip through dimensions. He also has lots of items for use in battle. He brings with him two Shooting Stars, a Flame Burst, an Ice Storm, two Thunder Rages, two Block Blocks, a Stop Watch, and a Sleepy Sheep, as well as his Key Items and the Pure Hearts. He's at the peak of his gaming, posessing all Catch Cards and maximum level, etc.

4. Link, Hero of Legend (The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword), equipped completely with pre-battle equipment (Hylian Shield, three bottles of Guardian Potion +, two bottles of Air Potion +, a Potion Medal, and an Iron Shield). He expertly weilds the Master Sword that he forged with sacred flame with all of his experience of both the Knight Academy and his many adventures, as well as such versatile items as the Bow, the Double Clawshot, and the Beetle.

5. Kirby (Kirby: Right Back at Ya!), the lovable pink puffball that loves to eat things. His powerful inhalation allows him to eat his foe, then absorb its powers. He also runs really fast.

All of my team members will start in Hell's Kitchen.

Good luck, Mr_Anon.
Debate Round No. 1


Thank you Con, for posting your characters. Magneto made me have to rework some of my strategies, but other than that not much of a problem, as you will see.
Final characters:

Ridley (Metroid series)
A fearsome Space Dragon, Ridley has access to great strength, powerful teeth, claws, and tail, as well as plasma breath that can be fired in a stream or in fireballs. While immortal and apparently capable of regeneration, he is not invincible and can be defeated. Ridley is in his Super Metroid form. (

Crazy Hand (Smash Bros. series)
A mysterious hand that dwells in space, Crazy Hand is the embodiment of chaos, contrasting with his brother Master Hand's relative order. Crazy Hand has incredible strength, a well as a plethora of supernatural powers. (

Both Ridley and Crazy Hand are flying 100m above Teridax

Now for my strategy.

First off, I would like to point out that virtually all life forms on Pandora are connected through an intricate plant network that has a mind of its own. This is very convenient for Teridax, whose Plant Control and Telepathy powers pretty much allow him to control the planet. Rather than making this power completely broken, however, he only uses it to summon two Mountain Banshees that go to Grievous and Meta Knight an allow them as riders. After this, Teridax uses his Weather Control power to create a massive wind to allow him and his friends to get to the human camp quickly.

Upon reaching, Teridax, Grievous, and Meta Knight stay back while Ridley and Crazy Hand attack. Ridley fires his plasma breath over the building, melting through the roof. Because my opponent's characters will likely scatter, Ridley will focus his fire on Magneto. Ridley will stop at brief intervals so that Crazy Hand may drop his bombs or use his lasers. They will continue this strategy until Magneto's shields are down and he is dead.

While this is going on, Meta Knight, from a safe distance, launches a tornado into the building. He will carefully aim it so that they split Link from the rest of the characters who are running away from Ridley. After this, he and Grievous will zero in on Kirby, Harry, and Paper Mario. Meta Knight will handle Harry while Grievous takes out the others. Note that Meta Knight will try to throw a sword to his opponents out of courtesy (or pity), but Grievous will intercept the toss and add the sword to his collection.

Paper Mario doesn't stand a chance. In fact, to even run away from the plasma, he has to enter the third dimension, which he can only stay in for roughly 10 seconds without damaging himself. In addition, all of his attack items only apply to his plane of movement, so it will have absolutely no effect on Grievous at all. Grievous will slice him into burning, papery bits, and then he will focus on Kirby. The only copy ability Kirby has had access to is Ridley's plasma. Unfortunately, Grievous can simply deflect any plasma-based attacks using his lightsabers. He won't stand a chance.

During this time, Meta Knight would battle Harry Potter. Meta Knight is fast, so it will be difficult for Harry to land a spell, and Meta Knight can fire sword beams of his own. Meta Knight also has the power to fire a tornado, which will distract Harry while he moves closer. At close range, Meta Knight can easy kill Harry.

While this has been going on, Teridax has been handling Link. Teridax has powers of Magnetism, so he can force all of Link's weapons to the ground, effectively disarming him. He can then put a statis field around Link until the Hero of Legend's potions have run out, a which point Link will already be doomed and Teridax will absorb him using a Shadow Claw.

In short, once Team Pro reaches Hell's Kitchen, Team Con will be effectively destroyed in under 5 minutes.



Thank you, Mr_Anon, for your response and your arguments.

Before going into any specific plans, I'd like to point out something about Crazy Hand. While it appeared to be very large in the Super Smash Bros. series, this is only because it fights trophies and toys. The two hands are actually regular-sized hands [Video 1, 0:00 - 0:15]. Crazy Hand will be little more than a nuisance in this fight.
I also see nothing on Teridax's wiki to suggest that he has the power to control animals with his mind.

My opponent's plan relies on my team remaining relatively motionless, but this is far from the case. At the beginning of the fight, Magneto uses his powers of magnetism to create very strong and conflicting magnetic fields underneath the Tree of Souls, instantly destroying Teridax, as he is made of metal. Without Teridax, the opposing team's plans fall apart completely. After destroying Teridax, he destroys Grievous at Hometree.

While Magneto has his fun, Harry casts Fianto Duri, Protego Maxima, Protego Totalum, and Repello Inimigotum around Hell's Kitchen to protect Team CON from Team PRO. Harry uses a Summoning Charm to summon three exopacks for himself, Link, and Magneto. Mario dons his Helmet. All of my characters are now safe from Pandora's toxic environment. Link then gulps down a Guardian Potion +, and Paper Mario uses a Block Block. Next, Harry casts Shield Charms on everybody to protect them from harm. Finally, Magneto and Link hop into two Amplified Mobility Platforms.

Magneto then quickly uses pieces of the facility to create a metal band clasping around Link's Beetle, and Harry casts a Disillusionment Charm and Silencio on it so that it is invisible and inaudible, the ultimate stealth weapon. Link then launches the Beetle, and Magneto uses his magnetic powers to very quickly direct it to the Hallelujah Mountains (where Meta Knight is), and then the Tree of Souls (where Ridley and Crazy Hand are). Link sees from the Beetle's viewpoint, and relays information to Magneto. If the three of them are still there after all this time, Magneto crashes the Beetle into Crazy Hand, killing it and sending the Beetle back to Link. Magneto then creates magnetic barriers around both areas to prevent their espace, and taking them out will be an easy task:
  • Harry, invisible with the Invisibility Cloak, silences himself and apparates with Kirby to Meta Knight's general location. Meta Knight, seeing Kirby, throws him a sword. Harry then uses Expelliarmus to disarm Meta Knight, followed by a Stunning Spell to knock him unconscious. Kirby picks up the sword, and the two of them apparate back to Hell's Kitchen.
  • Harry then apparates the entire of Team CON to the Tree of Souls. If Crazy Hand survived before, a simple arrow from Link, Blasting Curse from Harry, jump from Paper Mario, puff from Kirby, or punch from Magneto will knock it out now. Ridley, meanwhile, will be a tad more difficult to contend with. Paper Mario's Stop Watch will help, temporarily pausing Ridley so that Link may attack with repeated Skyward Strikes, Harry may fire many Stunning Spells, Paper Mario may use his Ice Storm for massive damage, Kirby may eat Ridley, and Magneto may slash and fire at Ridley with his AMP. He doesn't stand a chance.

Of course, I'll also address how things would go if Teridax manages to survive Magneto's initial tear-up and summons the banshees by reasons impossible.

After Team CON sets up, Link's Beetle will detect that Team PRO is coming in fast for an invasion. Magneto would again try to tear apart Grievous and Teridax, then set up a magnetic barrier around the facility. Ridley and Crazy Hand attack Hell's Gate; Harry's spells and Magneto's barriers keep them at bay for quite some time, and besides, Crazy Hand is a joke.

Harry dons his cloak and uses the Disillusionment Charm on Kirby and Paper Mario, then silences the three of them. He then apparates all of them to outside of Hell's Gate, undetectable to Team PRO. They locate where Meta Knight, Teridax, and Grievous have stayed back. If only Meta Knight remains, as I suspect, Harry stuns Meta Knight, but if there are others, Paper Mario freezes all of them with a Stop Watch, and Kirby silently inhales all of them together, gaining the Master ability. This leaves only Ridley and Crazy Hand, and I've already outlined how they go down.

Assuming Harry's and Magneto's combined defenses through some sudden glitch of logic fail against Ridley's assault, Magneto and Link will be ready to fight back with their AMPs. This, combined with Magneto's magnetic proficiency, will allow the two of them to effectively fly in combat at ridiculously high speeds, quickly severing Ridley and Crazy Hand. Magneto in no way loses to Ridley, who is actually rather fragile in Super Metroid form.

If Meta Knight somehow still survives, he may fire a tornado, but his tornados are extremely slow and therefore easy to dodge. Harry can stun him, or Kirby can eat him, or Magneto or Link can cut him in half, or Paper Mario can bring Shooting Stars down on his head; any of these will remove him from the fight.

To address arguments against Paper Mario, I'll refute the misconceptions in order:
  • Paper Mario posesses the Mario Catch Card, allowing him to explore multiple dimensions without self-injury.
  • Paper Mario's items and attacks affect things in other planes as long as he views everything in 2D. In this view, since the Z dimension doesn't exist, objects don't have a Z dimension, so Mario can actually hit everything in the XY plane with an item regardless of its Z coordinate.
  • Paper Mario is not flammable, as he merely takes damage when hit by flames, and besides, he used the Block Block to temporarily protect himself.
  • Essentially, a battle between Paper Mario and Grievous ends with Grievous' insides freezing up due to an Ice Storm. Incidentally, everyone on Team PRO would be hit by an Ice Storm.

In a battle between Kirby and Grievous, my opponent would imagine Kirby trying to find an effective Copy ability, but he doesn't need one; inhaling Grievous is simple enough.

In a battle between Harry and Meta Knight, Meta Knight wouldn't know what to do because Harry is invisible, and whenever he gets close enough to hit Harry, Harry can apparate a safe distance away. Meanwhile, Harry can stun Meta Knight from afar. Of course, Harry can just fight someone else for the time being if he wants to; it's not like anyone can stop him. Should Teridax have survived Magneto, Harry will teleport behind him and fire a Blasting Curse to destroy him, then repeat the performance with Ridley. Of course, Magneto can create a magnetic barrier around Meta Knight to trap him completely.

Teridax will have difficulty defeating Link. Sure, the AMP would be useless in such a fight, as would be most of his weapons, but he still has his mighty Bombs, which could blow Teridax up. I doubt a stasis field would be effective against Link, as the Triforce of Courage has a problem with its owner being frozen; when the Hero of Light entered Twilight, he was supposed to be doomed forever a soul, but the Triforce would have none of that. If such a thing does work, Teridax will still have to wait, and during that time, Magneto, Harry, Kirby, or Paper Mario can still take him out. (Teridax actually died from a fragment of a planet hitting him in the head, so Mario's Shooting Star would be fitting.) Finally, regarding the Shadow Claw, "the Makuta must quickly dominate [the target's] will, or risk being overpowered" [1]. Link's a classic Determinator [2] with the Triforce of Courage; his will is simply indomitable. Link will overpower Teridax and blow him up with a Bomb, end of story.

In conclusion, my team's extensive pre-fight preparations allow them to defeat my opponent's team in just about every situation conceivable.

Good luck, Mr_Anon.


Debate Round No. 2


I thank Mongeese for countering with an interesting strategy.
There are four important factors that I should address before I continue, as they are key aspects of Con's argument
  1. Crazy Hand's true size is ambiguous. Yes, you can see his equally sized brother near a desk, but there's no proof that it is a human sized desk. Because there is a matter of speculation concerning him, for the purposes of this debate we will assume that he is exactly the size he appears to be in gameplay.
  2. Teridax's power is listed as "rahi control". In the bionicle universe, most animals are part of a broader classification called "rahi", which includes all wildlife, both intelligent and unintelligent. In any case, he can use his powers of plant control and telepathy to achieve this, as all life forms on Pandora are connected through a network of plants.
  3. If Magneto's powers are so powerful to reach many many miles away from his initial location to destroy a being he can't even see, I concede this debate as I will be facing a virtually undefeatable God (who is even more broken in this setting since many fictional characters who can breath in alien atmospheres do so through metal technology). It is true that Teridax will be coming relatively close to Magneto's starting point later in my strategy, but even then Magneto is being bombarded by Ridley's plasma and Crazy Hand's bombs.
  4. Paper Mario's power-ups only affect his own plane or enemies visible from his point view. This is shown by the fact that hidden enemies in the third dimension are unaffected by them.

Now, as for Harry's protection charms, there is no evidence that he knows such spells (except for Protego Totalum, but that only protects against other spells), and in the canon we are going by the spells are cast by a wizard master, who is in fact the professor of Charms in the series. Considering that Harry did not complete his final year, I find it highly unlikely that he knows these very advanced spells.

Con's manned stealth drone will not be very helpful, since Meta Knight is currently flying a banshee over to Hell's Kitchen. Ridley and Crazy Hand are currently attacking Magneto. Though he has magnetic barriers, Ridley and Crazy Hand are not made out of metal. In any case, their constant plasma bursts and bombs will break through any barrier in no time.

Meta Knight's tornado's are slow, but the purpose is not to hit his opponents, it is to divide them. While it s true that all of my opponent's remaining characters are invisible, Teridax enacts Silence and Darkness abilities to make it impossible for them to see or hear Teridax, Grievous, and Meta Knight. Paper Mario, Link, and Kirby are not actually invisible, but only difficult to see. Any motion on their part should be easy to see.

Teridax, still hidden in his field of darkness (and should he be revealed, he will put on his chameleon ability, which also makes him invisible) can use his magnetism ability to strip Link of his weapons and identify him. He can then hold a statis field on him. I see no evidence that the Triforce of Courage protects him from that. Meanwhile, Grievous, at the first site of Paper Mario, will fire his blaster to kill him. Once both of these characters are dealt with, Teridax will use his power of weather control to summon a snowstorm, revealing Harry and Kirby.

Now, Meta Knight and Teridax will be battling Harry, while Grievous takes on Kirby. My opponent insists that Kirby can inhale Grievous. However, Grievous, being several times the height of Kirby, is too large to inhale. In any case, he can grip the ground using his foot-talons, and slice Kirby into pieces while the puffball has little efense. Meanwhile, Teridax, who is invisible under his chameleon ability, can read Harry's mind to discover his strategies, and relay the information to Meta Knight via telepathy. Should he get close enough to Harry, he will immediately strike him with his staff of shadow, and then use his shadow claw to kill him.

Grievous, after defeating Kirby, will move on to Link. First, he will remove Link's oxygen mask, which will force him into unconsciousness despite the Hero's guardian potion. If this isn't enough to knock him out, he will stand by he immobilized Hero of Legends until Link runs out of Guardian potion, and then Grievous will execute the brave knight using a lightsaber.

Teridax and Meta Knight, after defeating their foes, will aid Ridley and Crazy Hand in their onslaught on Magneto (who really should be dead right now).

Remember that there is a possibility of Ridley and Crazy Hand defeating Magneto very quickly, in which case they will aid their teammates. In this case, while Teridax, Meta Knight, and Grievous are in their zone of shadow, Ridley will rain plasma over the surrounding area, which is sure to kill all of the remnants of Team Con (except Link, who is disarmed and in a statis field anyways).

After defeating Team Con, Team Pro will enjoy a round of hearty celebrtions, during which Crazy Hand will laugh like a maniac, Teridax will utter a wity phrase, Meta Knight will remove his mask and reveal his backstory, Grievous will take all of Team Con's surviving weapons as trophes, and Ridley will say that he is surprised had he has not been killed.



Thank you, Mr_Anon, for your response. I shall now respond to your contentions in turn.
1. I read from Master Hand's Super Smash Bros. Melee trophy description:
"This symbolic link between the real world and the imaginary battlefields..." [1]
In the real world, the only room you're going to find like that will be a human room. We don't have enormous desks and beds and windows like that, and there's really no reason that Nintendo would place the opening of the game in such a room. The clear scenario is that this is the room of a Nintendo fan with Nintendo toys that Master Hand is able to animate to come to life for battle.
2. The Rahi only refers to the animals of the Bionicle universe, all created by Bionicle characters and all made of Protodermis [2]. Banshees are made of organic material, and have no connection to Bionicle. They are most definitely not Rahi. My opponent claims that "all life forms on Pandora are connected" through plants, but Banshee don't appear to have any direct neurological connection to any plants, instead sometimes bonding with Na'vi, so plant control does not extend to Banshee control.
3. Magneto's powers do extend across great distances, but recall that this destruction is only possible because Teridax is made completely out of metal. This is more of a fatal weakness in Teridax and Greivous than a God-like power on Magneto's part. My opponent claims that metal technology is used by many to breathe in Pandora's atmosphere, but only three of ten characters (Magneto, Teridax, Greivous) currently rely on metal for survival, although my opponent has not explained how Ridley will be able to survive in this environment.
4. The only reason that some enemies are unaffected is because they are flat, so when they hide in the third dimension, they become invisible in the second dimension. All three-dimensional enemies are unable to hide in this way.

My opponent questions Harry's knowledge of magic, but Harry became the head of the Auror Office at age 27 [3], and thus probably knows every spell that would be useful in the profession. Also recall that Harry is naturally talented, having mastered the Patronus Charm at age 13 when most adult wizards would fail [4].

I should point out that Magneto's force fields, while magnetic in nature, do not just block metal, but all physical objects with "a high degree of impenetrability" [5]. It would definitely take much longer than "no time" for Ridley to get through, I'd estimate multiple minutes of constant attack, and then you have to factor in Harry's defense. He also seems to assume that Magneto will go down quietly if his force fields are defeated, but that's false; he and Link instead fly around, gunning down Ridley and Crazy Hand with their AMP (which are actually similar to an enlarged version of Samus' Power Suit). Ridley is terribly vulnerable in his current form, and will go down in only a few shots.

A slow tornado designed to disrupt is still slow, and thus still ineffective. I cannot find any reference to Silence or Darkness powers on the BS01 wiki, and the Chameleon ability seems to only change one's color, not grant invisibility [6]. I also find anything on the Harry Potter wiki to suggest that the Disillusionment Charm grants anything less than perfect invisibility [7]. Teridax will also be unable to use a snowstorm to reveal my characters, as there is no snow on Pandora, period.

While I cannot prove that the Triforce protects against the stasis field, I have cited an incidence in which it blocked a fate very similar, becoming a spirit in Twilight. My opponent claims that Grievous will quickly eliminate Paper Mario, but ignores both his stronger-than-paper durability and his Block Block. Grievous' insides shall freeze.

Grievous may be larger than Kirby, but Kirby has swallowed things many times his size before. Grievous' wiki page makes no reference to his "foot-talons," so those won't help. Also recall that Kirby is both silent and invisible, so Grievous will not be able to prepare.

Teridax can try to read Harry's mind, but Harry has taken lessons in Occlumency, and besides, it's not like Teridax can learn anything that will save his team. Of course, Teridax will not be invisible as my opponent claims, instead subjecting himself to either a Blasting Curse or a rip apart from Magneto. Should Teridax try to absorb Harry, he will run into the same problem as he would with Link; recall that Harry out-willed even Voldemort before [8].

In a fight between Grievous and Link, well... [9]. Besides, Link has an Air Potion handy to survive the atmosphere. He will then take out a Bomb and blow Grievous up.

If Ridley by some miracle survived and spewed plasma everywhere, it would hardly hinder my team. Harry may apparate to safety, Paper Mario can sidestep with his flatness, Magneto can fly away in his AMP to attack from afar, and Kirby can merely float away. Team PRO seems to be much more endangered by plasma.

Now, just to prepare for any situation, I'll describe how each of my characters would perform in a one-on-one fight, as my opponent doesn't seem to have any chance to gang up on my characters, fighting evenly at best. All performances against Crazy Hand assume that he's large; if he is small, he will have no effect on this battle at all, having lost to toy versions of some of my characters. Also recall that if my characters are both invisible and silent as intended, Team PRO stands even less of a chance.
          • Magneto can rip Teridax and Grievous instantly. He can gun down Ridley and with his AMP while blocking any plasma or bombs with force fields. Meta Knight's shoes are made of metal, so Magneto may shove these boots into Meta Knight himself, killing him, or simply blast him with the AMP while blocking sword beams.
          • Link can take on Ridley with the AMP or multiple arrows, always sure to shield against plasma and use a Shield Bash to redirect it at Riley himself. He would attack both Teridax and Grievous with bombs, careful to use a Shield Bash if ever attacked by light sabers to throw Grievous off completely. He would have an intense fight with Meta Knight, both of them being masters of the sword, but Link has the advantage of a shield and multiple Guardian Potions, so Meta Knight really doesn't stand a chance. Crazy Hand is just a joke to Link, taken out by the AMP or multiple arrows.
          • Kirby can eat Teridax or Grievous. Versus Meta Knight, he would be given a sword, and Kirby bested Meta Knight in Revenge of Meta Knight, so we'll see a repeat performance here. Against Ridley or Crazy Hand, Kirby would eat some RDA weaponry to become Laser Kirby, then use hit-and-run tactics for massive damage.
          • Harry's use of apparation and defensive spells will make him very difficult to hit, and his Invisibility Cloak makes that even more difficult. Blasting Curses will take out Teridax or Grievous, and a Stunning Spell will stun Meta Knight. The Conjunctivitis Curse will irritate Ridley beyond counterattack, and a Fiendfyre will consume Crazy Hand.
          • Paper Mario's Stopwatch and Block Block give him plenty of time to attack. After using these, he can use Ice Storm to freeze Grievous' insides and Shooting Star to destroy Teridax. Meta Knight will go down with repeated Thunder Rage, and Ridley will be defeated by any of these. Crazy Hand is particularly vulnerable to Paper Mario's stomp, defeated if Mario merely jumps on Crazy Hand and stays there, up and down, up and down, damaging Crazy Hand repeatedly until he is defeated.
Debate Round No. 3


1. As I said, there is ambiguity surrounding Crazy Hand and his brother. For the purposes of this debate we will assume that he is giant, just as we assumed that Meta Knight is Kirby's species and that Meta Knight possesses Galaxia.
2. Fair enough. Because this debate allows me to rework my strategies, I will do so by having Meta Knight "teleport" by entering his cloak and flying at high speeds, and Teridax directly picking up Grievous along the way. It is not a very important part of my strategy. Remember though that Teridax does still posses plant control powers, which will be very useful in a fight here.
3. Remember that one of your own characters is reliant on metal (Link). In addition, the vast deposits of rare metal underneath parts of Pandora would essentially allow him to ravage most of the terrain and kill any opposing team, regardless of whether they are made out of metal or not.
4. That is not what I am talking about. I'm referring to enemies behind walls that are hidden from view but still are move in the same range of motion.

My opponent uses Harry's Defense Against the Dark Arts knowledge as an example of why he is a master of this. However, the spells we are talking about are in the Charms category. Yes, Harry may have been the head of the Auror Office, but it is implied that he is only an auror in the first place because of his role in killing Voldemort (

Remember that Meta Knight is firing his tornadoes, which are aimed to drive away other team members. In addition, should Link attack in an AMP, Ridley only needs to let Crazy Hand take over for a few seconds so he can destroy the machine with his plasma. My opponent compares the AMPs to Samus' Power Suit, despite this comparison being completely unwarranted, as Samus' Power suit, despite appearance, is partially biological and has its defenses fueled by energy ( My opponent also claims that an Iron shield is capable of withstanding Ridley's plasma breath, when in reality the scope of the flame is far to wide for him to entirely block with a single shielding. The only way Link will survive this is if he flees.

Now, I strongly advise my opponent to read the Kraata Variations page thoroughly ( The Chameleon power is specifically described as "[having] the ability to become completely invisible in any environment". You will see that silence and darkness are also mentioned there. I will note that while my opponent may not be familiar with Bionicle, questioning Teridax's darkness powers is quite ridiculous, considering that he is wearing the Mask of Shadows and carries a tool called the Staff of Darkness. Comparing to the disillusionment charm, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix specifically describes the charm as not granting true invisibility. In fact, the Harry Potter Wiki article itself that my opponent cites actually contrasts the spell with the Invisibility Cloak with the difference being that the Invisibility Cloak grants true invisibility ( As for the snowstorm, it is true that there is no natural snow, but the Makuta power of Weather Control is described by Biosector as granting the user the power to "manifest powerful, dangerous thunderstorms and blizzards at will." I would also like to not that the power is used in the Bionicle series to create storms in an underground cavern, as seen in the Bionicle novel The Darkness Below. Clearly Teridax is not constrained by the weather patterns of Pandora.

My opponent claims a statis field is similar to the Twilight realm. This is false, as a statis field is essentially a force field that contains Link, whereas the Twilight Realm actually transforms beings who enter into spirit forms. As for Grievous vs Paper Mario, Paper Mario only faces other paper enemies in his game. He is specifically described as being made out of paper, which will stand no chance against Grievous' lightsabers. My opponent cites the Block Block. However, the said power up only lasts 15 seconds, hardly helpful in a fight like this ( In addition, my opponent's claim that "Grievous' insides shall freeze" is ridiculous, as Grievous has been able to walk around in the near absolute zero temperatures of the vacuum of space. Paper Mario can slow down time, yes, but Grievous already moves at extremely fast speeds, making Paper Mario hardly have any advantage at all.

I would like my opponent to cite one being anywhere near Grievous' size that Kirby has been able to swallow. In addition, though my opponent is using Kirby from the anime, there are no humans in the said television show, so the only real-world measurement that has been applied to Kirby (8 inches) would make Grievous a giant compared to Kirby. Even assuming that the Cappys are the size of humans, Kirby cannot be more than 1.5 feet tall, which makes Grievous, over 7 feet tall, is still many times larger than the Star Warrior. My opponent claims that Kirby is invisible, but Teridax has already revealed him by summoning a blizzard.

Harry has taken lessons in Occlumency, but he failed them pretty badly. In any case, Professor Snape is clearly seen in Order of the Phoenix making it clear that Legimency is not the same as mind reading. My opponent brings up Magneto, but he is far too busy being fried to a crisp and being crushed to be helping his team. Teridax remains invisible, as his Chameleon power applies to any environment, and he also remains silent. Con finally underestimates the usefulness of mind reading. Because he knows exactly where Harry plans on apparating or moving, or what spells he plans on using, Teridax can rely the information silently to Meta Knight. Alternatively, Teridax could simply create another statis field around Harry, not even needing to absorb him and risk being killed.

My opponent forgets that all of Link's items, save his bottles, have been taken from him through Teridax's magnetism, and that Link is in a statis field, preventing him from using his bottles. This is not a very difficult fight.

For Ridley destroying the remnants of my opponent's team, Paper Mario cannot dodge as flames spread in all three dimensions, Kirby flies far to slow to avoid attack, and Magneto is already killed.

For 1-on-1

      • Magneto is busy fighting my non-metallic characters, Ridley and Crazy Hand. Ridley can melt any metal around, and I don't see Magneto's shields lasting long against constant attack.

      • I explained why Link cannot shield Ridley's, and why he stands no chance against Teridax. Against Grievous, he is fighting someone who has far superiors reach and is holding four lightsabers at once. A single shield cannot block all four lightsabers. Meta Knight posses greater speed, as well as abilities such as Mach Tornado that can break through Link's defenses. Crazy Hand can just drop bombs. Link can't shield explosions all around himself.

      • I've already explained how Grievous can easily defeat Paper Mario. As for Teridax, it is very convenient that he has actually faced a similar opponent who has relied on a fish tank to breath. He kills the opponent by using his power of sonic to break the glass. Ridley just needs to fire plasma and he wins. If Paper Mario goes on top of Crazy Hand, Crazy will simply fly up into the air very quickly, roll over in a seizure, or simply smash his knuckle against a building or a tree.

      • Grievous is far to big, but Teridax, being some 15 feet tall, is not going to be swallowed any time soon. As for against Meta Knight, unfortunately this is anime Kirby, who has little experience against Meta Knight. Also, anime Kirby has never been seen with the laser ability.

      • I've explained how the snow storm counters his invisibility curse, and Teridax, Grievous, and Meta Knight are too fast to be hit by these spells. Also, Harry doesn't know Fiendfyre.



Thank you, Mr_Anon, for your response.

1. My opponent claims "ambiguity," then says that we should assume that he is right. This is a debate; I have put forth contentions for why my understanding of Crazy Hand is correct, and my opponent does not refute them. We should not assume things without reasoning just because it would favor my opponent. While I extend all arguments against a large Crazy Hand, I will from this point forward argue with the understanding that he is small, as my opponent has not adequately explained why Crazy Hand would be large.
3. Link may use metal in his sword and some items, but he is not reliant upon it. I never made any arguments for Magneto destroying Pandora's terrain, as this would involve moving huge masses, inefficient in both time and energy; Team PRO would escape any ravaged area before Magneto could properly destroy it. Recall that if my opponent cannot win this contention, he loses both Grievous and Teridax, and I've explained before how this leaves him absolutely no hope of survival.
4. Walls may prevent Paper Mario's item attacks from hitting an enemy, but my opponent hasn't pointed out any walls in this debate that would achieve such protection, making the contention moot.

Harry received an "Exceeded Expectations" on his Charms O.W.L., and mastered the Patronus Charm early, indicating a proficiency in Charms, and Shield Charms would be invaluable for an auror to know; Harry was particularly fond of Protego in his teenage years. Harry wanted to be an auror since his fifth year, and Aurors are required to master Charms [1]. Harry may have missed his seventh year at Hogwarts, but travelling and practicing Charms with Hermione probably taught him more than school ever could. Finally, Harry became head of the Auror Office ten years after defeating Voldemort, although that certainly indicates his power as a wizard. It is also expected that Harry would know how to both use and react to Fiendfyre, another invaluable spell in the hands of a skilled wizard.

Both Link and Magneto are attacking Ridley with their AMPs; Magneto uses his magnetism to give both of theme flight and quick agility. Ridley may try to attack one of them with his plasma breath, but he'll only dodge in any random direction while both of them fire their autocannons [2], going down quickly with his little defense. Ridley is outsped and outnumbered. If either AMP is hit, its user may still survive by simply jumping out of the suit. Link would not defend himself on the ground with the Iron Shield, but the Hylian Shield, and is still protected by his Guardian Potion. If Magneto goes down, his first mission would be to quickly flee from Ridley and instead pursue Grievous and Teridax, should either of them have survived before, and ensure that they die. He would then grab a different AMP later to continue the fight with Ridley.

We seem to have conflicting sources on the Chameleon power, as my source clearly goes against complete invisibility. My opponent has linked to the Darkness powers, but if Teridax removes all light, nobody will be able to see anything, and instead Magneto would randomly destroy everything metal in the surrounding area (with the exception of the AMP suits and anything on Harry, as he knows where they are) until Teridax is destroyed, restoring light, and the fight would thus continue. My opponent misreads the Harry Potter wiki rather badly, as I quote from the very page he linked to, "it is possible to create such a powerful Disillusionment charm that the targets are completely invisible" [3]. Finally, regarding a snowstorm, it would reveal everybody, including Team PRO, or nobody if Darkness is in effect. Harry can use Impervious to remove snow from his cloak, regaining his invisibility.

I will concede that the stasis field will affect Link, although Teridax's final plan of disposing of Link (Shadow Claw) is still suicidal, as I pointed out before. It is true that Paper Mario is made of paper, but this is not ordinary paper, as he survives Bowser's flame breath and other firey attacks while taking no more damage than he would from other attacks. Paper Mario simply does not burn. The Block Block may be temporary, but Mario doesn't even need a second to use the Ice Storm. Grievous doesn't seem to have anything to keep his insides from freezing, or any system of temperature homeostasis at all; being in very low temperatures in space is different from low temperatures in ice, as ice will much more quickly rob the body of energy. In any case, if Grievous survives that, a Thunder Rage would do the trick, as Grievous is made of metal, which would conduct the electricity and fry his insides instead.

Okay, so Grievous is larger than I thought he was, but Kirby can still inhale all of his lightsabers, thus turning into Light Saber Kirby, appropriately enough. He would then use his lightsaber to defeat Grievous.

It is true that Harry failed Occlumency with Snape, but he eventually mastered it by the seventh book [4]. Legimency is actually referred to as "mind-reading" by some, although, as Snape says, a wizard's mind is much too complicated to be simply read. Since Teridax has only before read the minds of those who are biologically very similar to himself, it is unlikely that he would understand the foreign, more complicated mind of a human. Finally, Harry tends to use the Indy Ploy [5]; it is impossible to know what Harry is about to do, because not even Harry is sure quite what that is until he does it. It's not like Meta Knight could use this knowledge to his advantage, though. If Teridax ever tries to make a stasis field around Harry, he can apparate away.

My opponent is mistaken regarding Link's items: he still has his bottles, his Scatter Shot, his whip, his Gust Bellows, and his Harp. I will grant that the stasis field means that Link can't sustain himself with his Air Potion, but Teridax will be taken out by another member of Team CON before Link suffocates. Of course, Teridax will never have the opportunity to put Link in such a postion, as Link is busy using his AMP to destroy Ridley, and Magneto will destroy Teridax anyway.

Paper Mario is a significantly smaller target for Ridley because he is flat; there's no denying that much. Kirby is a very fast runner, and would be able to get out of Ridley's range, then float. Magneto has his AMP, and will therefore blast Ridley into oblivion without a second thought.

Regarding the 1-on-1 battles, I'll only state the bare essentials due to character limits:
  • Magneto's shields don't need to last for too long, as Ridley is incredibly vulnerable to the cannon in his current state.
  • Teridax's current method of defeating Link is the Shadow Claw, which as I've explained before fails. A single shield can defeat four lightsabers; Link's Shield Bash against one will disrupt Grievous' attack strategy and open up his defenses for a bomb. Meta Knight's speed does no good in a sword fight, and the Mach Tornado can be Shield Bashed like any other attack. Crazy Hand doesn't have infinite bombs, and Link takes minimal damage from explosions; Crazy Hand must also rest between attacks, during which time Link opens fire.
  • My opponent provides no defense against Paper Mario; his attacks are ranged, so in the seconds it takes to fire at Paper Mario, he already uses his item, dooming his opponent. If Crazy ascends, he'll only speed up the stomp damage; the other methods shake Mario loose, but don't damage him, and he'll be back.
  • It's clear from the anime that Kirby has all of his established abilities, even if we never see them in the episodes themselves. Additionally, Kirby does use Master a few times in the anime to great effect, and can therefore defeat Meta Knight.
  • One cannot be too fast to be hit by a spell from an invisible and silent source.

Good luck, Mr_Anon.


Debate Round No. 4


  1. My apologies. I was unable to give a through argument on this matter due to character constraints. However, as I noted, the presence of human toys and bedroom in the opening of the original Smash Bros means little, as there is no evidence that these instruments are human sized. In addition, Super Smash Bros. Brawl's Subspace Emissary intro shows humans in the audience of the Midair Stadium; there is no evidence that these are also toys ( I would like to note that Con has not even addressed the possibility of a giant Crazy Hand in his arguments, and his strategy strongly relies on Crazy Hand being very small. My opponent will not be able to create new arguments in the next round, so this is unfortunate for him.

  2. Grievous is standing in remains of the hometree, many miles and completely hidden from Magneto. In addition, he is just above a gigantic field of unobtainium metal, which has high magnetic fields that will likely disrupt Magneto ( As for Teridax, he will be teleporting to Grievous' location shortly after the War begins, where he will be safe from Magneto's power. I would also like to note, as I have not gotten the chance to throughout this debate, note that even if Teridax's armor is destroyed, he will still be alive, as his actual substance is the green Antidermis mist inside, which Teridax can still move around in. However, he does not intend to have his armor destroyed quite yet. As for Meta Knight, he will "teleport" using his cloak. Because there is possibility that he is traveling through other dimensions during this travel, Magneto cannot keep track of him through this whole time. By the time Teridax, Grievous, and Meta Knight directly engage Team Con, Magneto will be busy fighting Ridley and Crazy Hand.

  3. Paper Mario has limited range in his attacks, as they only cover his screen in Super Paper Mario. In addition, the power up only applies to enemies visible on his screen, which Grievous, Teridax, and Meta Knight are not.

Knowledge of Protego (which won't protect against the attacks my team will use on him for long) does not equal knowledge of spells at the level of a Hogwarts professor. Is there any evidence at all that he ever asked lessons on protection charms? No. Does "Exceeds Expectations" equal the level of a Hogwarts professor who has spend decades knowing his spells? No. As for Fiendfyre, it is described as being "dark magic". It is possible that Harry Potter knows how to tame or control it (though not very likely, as the level of expertise required is implied by the wiki as being that of Voldemort), but I find it highly unlikely that he knows and is willing to conjure it.

Ridley is fighting Magneto along with Crazy Hand, so if Magneto tries to fight Ridley when he turns to attack Link, he will be destroyed by Crazy Hand. My opponent has given no evidence of the Hylian shield being able to block flame with the scope that Ridley can breath, which will be wider than the shield and go around it to stun Link and melt his exopack. He may try to flee and grab another AMP, but he will be caught by Teridax and kept in a statis field. If Magneto's AMP is destroyed, he probably won't have the time to make it another 5 yards, given that he's being attacked by Crazy Hand.

My source for chameleon is more reliable, since it it quoting official word ( For final proof, the novel The Final Battle depicts a Makuta going completely invisible using his Chameleon power. As for Teridax's darkness, it will only be a zone of darkness that covers Grievous, himself and Meta Knight. As they are standing well away from where their opponents are standing, Teridax will make sure his enemies are not covered by his field. As for the disillusionment charm, the wiki is referring to the type of charm cast on the Invisibility Cloak, which is obviously at a level far above the level Harry knows. While Harry can remove the snow he has on his cloak, this will take about a second, which is long enough for Teridax to put Harry into confusion (as he has his Accuracy ability).

Teridax will not kill Link using Shadow Claw. Instead, Grievous will kill him after he is finished with his opponents. The only fire Paper Mario has ever touched is "paper fire", so obviously it has a different effect. As for a thunder attack, lightsabers can deflect lightning, as seen by how they can deflect force lightning in the movies. All Grievous needs to do is lift two lightsabers above his head. Kirby cannot suck up Grievous' lightsabers, as he is holding onto them very tightly. And Kirby in the anime is clearly different from Kirby in the games, and he cannot use just any copy ability. For example, there is an episode where he inhales a skull and does not turn into "Skull Kirby". In any case, while Kirby is trying to inhale, Grievous will just fire a blaster shot into his mouth, forcing him into Laser Kirby. Laser Kirby's attacks can be deflected by Grievous' lightsabers, and by the time he is able to spit out this ability, he will be killed.

Fair enough about Occlumency (I believe I was the one who originally added in the statement of his mastery of the subject in Harry Potter Wiki). Nonetheless, Teridax has the "confusion power" which will put Harry in a confused state, preventing him from apparating (unsure apparation is very risky in the Harry Potter series, due to splinching possibilities). After this, he will use his Density Control power to allow himsef to move through Harry's shield (yes, he can do that. This is seen in the novel The Final Battle, where a Makuta uses this power to move through an otherwise impenatrable force field) and attack him using his Staff of Darkness, the force of which should kill him.

Regarding 1-on-1 battles:

  • Magneto's shields are quickly destroyed by Crazy Hand and Ridley, and he cannot attack both at once. Grievous will avoid his attacks at the beginning since he is near large amounts of unobtainium, while Teridax will not be severely hurt by Magneto.

  • My opponet has not very well explained how Link's shield can avoid for lightsabers comming at him from all sides (due to Grievous' reach), and a shield bash will do negligable harm on a durable cyborg like Grievous. By Meta Knight's "speed", I mean he can move his sword much faster than Link can, as he has been described as being able to move his sword faster than the eye can see. In addition, he has powers like Final Cutter which are difficult, if not impossible to simply shield. In addition, he can sword slide at Link's feet, where the Hero of Legend will have a difficult time dodging. Crazy Hand DOES have infinite bombs, he is never seen running out. Crazy Hand alternatively could simply crush Link, as being attacked does not disrupt his attacks in the Smash Series. I have explained how Ridley and Teridax can easily take him out.

  • Paper Mario has limited range, and only affect certain enemies visibe to him. Crazy Hand can simply slide Mario off, and then stay above him and drop bombs.

  • The anime is not the same canon as the games. Against Meta Knight, the ability to hold Galaxia does not mean he can beat the knight in a sword fight.

  • Harry will have been revealed by Teridax by this point. Also note that Meta Knight appears to have the power to reveal such illusions using his sword (as seen in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror, in the fight against Dark Meta Knight). Teridax, in addition to the ways I have used, has quite a few ways to counter Harry, including using Gravity to pin him to the ground, poisoning him, blasting the whole area using chain lighting, or using his Shatting ability (which is equiviliant to the shattering curse). Note that he can use all of these abilities against the rest of my opponent's team.

Team Pro has many ways to defeat team Con, and Team Con's strategies rely on one of my characters being useles. Vote Pro.



Thank you, Mr_Anon, for your final response.

1. My opponent has no alternate explanation for how this "real world" bedroom could belong to anyone but a human. In the Midair Stadium I see no humans at all; just try to make out anything in the blur of crowd. Ultimately, we must conclude that Crazy Hand is indeed small, although I will still continue to refute large Crazy Hand, which my opponent falsely implies I haven't done.

2. Distance is not a problem for Magneto, as tearing things apart does not need precision. Magneto can manipulate pre-existing magnetic fields to do his bidding, so the presence of unobtanium will only contribute to his power. Even if this did interfere, Teridax would still be destroyed, as Magneto rips him apart immediately after the war begins, not waiting one second. My opponent chose the last round to claim that Teridax will survive anyway, but no matter; the Antidermis is highly vulnerable to fire, so Paper Mario's Flame Burst or Harry's Incendio can destroy it, or if it can't be tracked down, it will dissipate automatically after two weeks [1], and my opponent doesn't explain how Teridax will possibly defeat anyone in this form.

3. When Paper Mario enters 3D, his screen expands to cover a much larger range than before. In every situation described in this debate, he is close enough to his foe for his items to hit.

Regarding Harry's magical experience [2], he "would occasionally cast the protective enchantments that Hermione would use," which would only get better after nineteen years of experience, and "Harry was one of the few non-Dark Wizards who was highly proficient in the Dark Arts at all levels," so he could easily use Fiendfyre.
My opponent has finally chosen to use Crazy Hand for something other than bombs, and in doing so greatly exaggerates its fighting abilities. See Video 1, starting at 1:25, leaving only Link and Crazy Hand. Notice how slowly Crazy Hand moves, as well how it takes a break after every attack, and this is against the relatively slow-moving Link. Now imagine if Link is flying around in an AMP suit at highway speeds. Crazy Hand would be completely lost. Even after losing an AMP suit, which is unlikely, Magneto would be able to fly away at a quick pace, and Skyward Link can dash faster than Brawl Link, avoiding all of Crazy Hand's attacks. Magneto would destroy Grievous and Teridax (if they weren't dead already), then recruit Harry to join them while Kirby fights Meta Knight. The result of this conflict will be Magneto and Link destroying Ridley as Crazy Hand, large or small, continuously tries and fails to grab either of them, suffering a painful autocannon death in the end.

If Teridax only surrounds his own team in darkness, then Harry's Lumos Maxima will easily neutralize it. When Teridax then summons the blizzard, Harry can see it coming and cast Impervious before it actually hits, giving Teridax no chance to locate Harry's position, although a second of just barely being visible wouldn't give him an actual chance anyway. As for his Confusion power, this would have the same problem as his mind-reading power, as Harry's mind is completely different from any mind in the Bionicle universe, and therefore, the confusion power wasn't designed to alter it at all. It would be like trying to fly a remote control plane with a certain radio wave frequency, only to learn that the plane is actually controlled by steam clouds; they're just completely incompatible. In any case, Magneto should have destroyed Ridley by this point, so he'd drop by and destroy Teridax and Grievous on the off-chance that they survived his initial remote strike against them.

While the fire Paper Mario encountered may have been "paper fire," which looked like ordinary enough fire to me, there's also no evidence that Paper Mario is actually flammable; after all, he survived large falls and collisions that should have destroyed anything made of our world's paper. Of course, this doesn't matter, as Paper Mario is protected by a Block Block, and even then, before Grievous can get close enough to use his lightsabers, Paper Mario's Ice Storm would kill Grievous. My opponent contended my Thunder Rage argument this round, but completely forgot about the Ice Storm, thus conceding its lethality.

As for Kirby fighting Grievous, my opponent's reasoning is flawed: "Skull Kirby" doesn't exist! If Kirby does gain the Laser Ability and have to rid himself of it, he will simply run away before dropping the ability, avoiding any risk of death. Meanwhile, Ice Storm.

Of course, the above two paragraphs should be completely irrelevant, as Teridax and Grievous are destroyed not even a minute into the war.

Moving on to the one-on-one:
  • My opponent's decription of these battles is somewhat amusing, as he talks of Magneto fighting Ridley and Crazy Hand simultaneously, which kind of defeats the entire "1-on-1" analysis, although by my argument, Crazy Hand is useless anyway. Looking at every round, my opponent concedes that if given the opportuniy, Magneto would destroy Teridax, Grievous, and Meta Knight without question.
  • Link's Shield Bash isn't meant to harm, but stun, giving Link an opportunity to leave a bomb with Grievous, then run like the wind away to let him explode. For Meta Knight's sword speed, it doesn't matter how fast he swings it, a Shield Bash would still counter it. I don't see how Final Cutter would be effective in this fight, as Meta Knight would fly in the air, then try to land, easily blocked by a shield. Link can jump backwards to avoid a sword slide. Ultimately, as I've pointed out before, his Guardian Potions and Hylian Shield give him the undeniable edge here. Crazy Hand can't use bombs indefinitely, and must pause between uses; also, it can't even maintain his grip for any longer than about five seconds, and it isn't evne lethal. See the video; Brawl Link could defeat Crazy Hand without taking any damage from it, and he's much slower and not as well equipped. There's also the fact that he's just a miniature trophy. I don't believe we ever saw how Ridley could take out Link; sure, he can fire plasma, but the Guardian Potion will protect Link long enough to let him fire enough arrows to take out Ridley. All of this, of course, ignores Link's AMP, which will most certainly help.
  • I believe I've already refuted everything my opponent says about Paper Mario here. Looking at past rounds, assuming that his items work, Paper Mario is conceded to defeat Meta Knight, Ridley, and Teridax with them.
  • Kirby doesn't just hold Galaxia, but uses it to great effect. There's a key difference there. After we acknowledge that Laser Kirby exists, my opponent concedes that he would defeat both Ridley and Crazy Hand.
  • I've refuted Teridax's sleuthing abilities, but I've played Amazing Mirror, and I honestly don't have a clue what my opponent is referring to as Galaxia's "power to reveal ... illusions," and the wiki doesn't either. My opponent also chooses to introduce four different combat abilities of Teridax at the last second, so I'm going to refute them with just as little embellishment, or not more: apparating away negaties Gravity, Poison requires physical contact that will not be granted, lightning is blocked by Protego, and Shattering is blocked by Protego. If my opponent disagrees with any of these defenses, I guess that's his problem, as he should have mentioned the attacks much earlier. My opponent has notably never contested that Harry would defeat Ridley with a single Conjuctivitis Curse, which makes that battle much easier, as if it weren't already simple.

Using the conclusions above, many arguable conflicts become obvious as victors of some battles join friends against foes that they easily defeat.

To conclude this, Team CON has dozens of methods for taking out Team PRO.

Thank you, Mr_Anon, for instigating this debate. May we do this again in the future.

Debate Round No. 5
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
Yeah, they weren't really necessary, but still, Rule of Cool.
Posted by Maikuru 6 years ago
Having not seen Avatar, I didn't really know what to make of those. They would probably help in the fight against Ridley, who is actually quite a beast. Given Harry's powers and the fighting skills of the rest of your team, though, they probably wouldn't need too much help.
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
The only thing I find missing from your RFD is my use of the environment in equipping Link and Magneto with RDA's Amplified Mobility Platforms. I thought it was one of the coolest things ever.

Thanks for your vote, Maikuru. Hopefully, posting this in the "unvoted" thread will get some more.
Posted by Maikuru 6 years ago

Sometimes one team will pick a character that is so dominate against the opposing team that they appear unbeatable. Magneto tends to be this character; I recall an earlier debate where one team had Magneto and the other had the Predator, Iron-Man, and 3 other all metal characters. Needless to say, it was a massacre.

Unfortunately for Pro, his team was similarly unprepared for this character. Now, Magneto is not unbeatable. Super speed, telekinesis, teleportation, weather control, and long-range weapon proficiency are just a few abilities that could take him out, or at least put up a fight. Pro's team just happened to rely on two metal-based characters who were too far away and too ill-equipped to defeat him. The frustrating thing is that almost any other Jedi could easily kill Magneto. Pro just happened to pick one who was metal.

Thus, Pro was two characters down from the start. Con's case on Crazy Hand being small was also convincing; all the evidence points to it being a normal-size hand and there is really no reason to believe otherwise. This leaves Team Pro with Meta Knight and Ridley, who happen to be two formidable characters. Unfortunately, they are battling a completely unscathed Team Con, including a wizard, a warrior, and one of Meta Knight's all-time rivals. There is just no coming back from that.

Good debate. Arguments and sources to Con. I hope to see more of these soon.
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
By the way, you claimed that you had "not gotten the chance to throughout this debate" until Round 5 to so much as mention Teridax's Antidermis form, but you had almost 3,000 characters still available in your Round 3 argument, so what stopped you?
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
"While in his Antidermis form, [Teridax] was only capable of using his mental powers..."
Teridax wouldn't be able to use his Fire Resistance.
Let's try to avoid arguing in the comments, okay?

This was a fun debate, and I loved the location.
Posted by Mr_Anon 6 years ago
Won't be able to have another of these for a while (until the middle of March). This was pretty fun.
Posted by Mr_Anon 6 years ago
Con should have been more careful and thoroghly read the Kraata Variations page on biosector.
Posted by Mr_Anon 6 years ago
I would like to note for voters that my opponent's claim that Antidermis Teridax can be killed by fire is FALSE. Fire resistance is a Makuta power.
Posted by Mr_Anon 6 years ago
I also had character constraints near the end. I'll try to reply tomorrow, which will be my last posting on for a while.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 6 years ago
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: See comments.