The Instigator
watziznehm
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
WrickItRalph
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Videos Like Bish Lasagna Should Be Taken Down

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2019 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 873 times Debate No: 120922
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

watziznehm

Pro

Hello, Opponent! Firstly, I will argue that the videos titled Bit*h Lasagna (there are 3) are highly insulting to people who, Say, Hail from India. The song itself says "You India You Lose". This kind of attack on a person's nationality is unsolicited. I'd like to say "You Sweden You Sh*t" and just wait for the reaction from PewDiePie. It wouldn't be sweet. The same thing can be expected from loads of Indians.
The song contains too many sexual innuendos for an audience under 18, "bobs" and "vegana" being cases in point.
Let's set PewDiePie aside. Hate content against other nationalities or races is overflowing on YouTube. This can be expanded to include swearing and so-called "roasts" where people are made to feel even worse. Freedom of speech will be argued by my honorable opponent, No doubt, But it only extends to a point where you don't hurt other people.
WrickItRalph

Con

First I must blame you for making have to watch that video. . . ". I'm over it.

so my first problem with your argument is that I did not see any explicit hate speech in the song. I might be wrong, Correct me if I'm just missing a key term. I'm not sure if the statement you posted constitutes hate speech. One thing about hate speech is it requires a certain intent from the person. Without this intent, They're just words. Now racial slurs tend to be different in this way because the restrictive definition of the words allows us to draw the hate from content. But making a pejorative statement with the word India in it isn't necessarily hate speech. If he was referencing the online gaming skills of India and India did, In fact, Have poor standings on online leaderboards, This would not then be hate speech, It would be a factual statement. Even more interesting still, Is that even if this was a fact, His intent could still make it hate speech.

So the burning question is: What was his intent? It appears to me that he is in a youtuber war with someone. I don't know if the statement you said was directed at this guy or not, You'll have to fill me in on that. But it seems to me that it was meant to be more of a not so clever personal attack on his opponent. Often times, The people in these youtube wars are doing it on purpose for views, So for all we know, There is no ill will here what so ever.

The next problem is, My opponent guessed it, Freedom of speech.

Look. I detest hate speech as much as the next guy. But freedom of speech is a delicate thing. The intent of the speech matters and we have to make sure that we don't lose more than we gain when we do restrict it. I've always thought that a temporary ban list on hot button terms was a good idea. That way they could be regulated instead of being applied by "offense" how Canada does it. One a side note, Worst way to handle free speech EVER. To quote an old axiom.

"I don't agree with what you say, But I'll fight to the death for your right to say" -- Some Person. 17? -19? Lol

I do have a contention with one of your points.

You said:
"But it only extends to a point where you don't hurt other people"

I agree with this in the case of physical harm or mental abuse. I do not agree with it simply if it only offends you. That is not good enough, You could be offended by the color pink because it's a sexist color. Should we make pink Illegal? I mean, I'd do it just to see how many people freak out. But people who are not jerks like me wouldn't do that. Lol.

Your floor.
Debate Round No. 1
watziznehm

Pro

In reply to a comment on this debate, This is not a joke. So, Coming to my opponent, I wonder whether they are stating that the slurs directed at the fact that T-Series is Indian are completely acceptable? I also feel that if I said something of that sort of thing to others, I would be raged against. This is unacceptable.
WrickItRalph

Con

Pointing out that somebody is Indian or that their Nation's team is bad at a certain E sport is not necessarily a racist phrase unless they go further and say that they are bad at games because of their ethnicity. Pewdiepie did not do this. So I don't think there was hate speech here.

You say it's unacceptable, But you only base this on your personal feelings, Not empirical facts. By your standard, We could ban any kind of speech.
I could say that I would be raged if people say the word envelope and then say it's unacceptable.
I could say that people who say "woke" offend me, Therefore it's unacceptable.
I could do this all day until there is no more words left and talking is illegal.
A slightly funny example is that I could say that all prepositions offend me and therefore that should be censored. So now everyone has to talk like cave people. I'm just entertaining myself now.

You haven't really made any convincing argument that I should find his speech objectionable. I mean internet censorship is at an all time high so obviously is must not be that bad.

Your floor.
Debate Round No. 2
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@EverlastingMoment

"We aren't looking at a hypothetical scenario. "
No there are countless videos on Youtube about the "Jewish question" holocaust denial. Do you condone that?

"because we don't know the context of what those situations are. "
I have made my hypothetical represent reality. Hope that is good enough.

"Does that mean I have the right to say that your statement should be removed from the internet because I misinterpreted the message? "
Depends on who has the better case. Are you a child who I have insulted bearing in mind I am an adult which has a higher capacity of reason? Your hypothetical was a bad one. You should have been more specific or better yet answered my hypotheticals.

Here are examples of specific hypotheticals:
Are you for platforming conspiracy theorists after the NZ shooting?
Are you for platforming holocaust deniers?
Posted by EverlastingMoment 3 years ago
EverlastingMoment
"Being more specific reduces how bad that statement is. "

That's the point. We aren't looking at a hypothetical scenario. We are looking at a situation we all know very well and we all know to great levels of detail what the context was. Don't lump it in with general examples which can easily be interpreted in many ways because we don't know the context of what those situations are.

Let me throw a hypothetical back at you since you love the concept of them so much.
Say I took great personal offense for the fact that you believed I didn't word my previous statement properly and I said it was a direct insult to my intelligence and equated it you calling me mentally retarded. Does that mean I have the right to say that your statement should be removed from the internet because I misinterpreted the message?
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Smug_Tomato

I pointed out the flaws but you didn't point out the flaws to mine.
Do you care to?
My argument was that making general statements leaves open for hypotheticals to make your statement look bad. Being more specific reduces how bad that statement is.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
@omar
I'd say he worded that very well.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@EverlastingMoment

You should have worded this better.

"But to go to the extent of taking it down because it offended some people? "
What if the some people are Jews who are offended by holocaust deniers?

"Especially when he meant it as purely satirical comedy? "
Are you okay with a comedy that uses the n-word and blackface?

"Not proper grounds at all for it to be removed. "
They are proper grounds. You just have thought well enough to see how it could be proper.
Posted by EverlastingMoment 3 years ago
EverlastingMoment
The bottom line is pretty simple. It's not hate content. It's satire. Two very different things.
Pewdiepie doesn't hate Indians at all. The whole video was just made to add a few thrills to the Pewdiepie vs T series subscriber count.
It's not personal. It's just for the hell of it. Quite a lot of viewers in India also see it that way and know that it's nothing really to get offended about.

Obviously to some people it'll come off as a joke in bad taste. That's fine. You don't have to watch it nor support Pewdiepie's content because of it. But to go to the extent of taking it down because it offended some people? Especially when he meant it as purely satirical comedy? Not proper grounds at all for it to be removed.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
It doesn't matter if India is better in other areas. He was specifically referring to gaming
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
You're just citing another person's opinion. That's the same as giving it s your opinion. You need evidence, Not just another person who was offended. Even If the whole world was offended, That still wouldn't make it racist.
Posted by watziznehm 3 years ago
watziznehm
The fact of the matter is I couldn't post enough in my R2 statement, So you're gonna have to see this to understand my points. The YTer(s) at the receiving end of this rant is an Indian record label. So one thing I have to say is: you missed his pretty under-the-radar references to over-18 stuff. I had to listen to the song 7 times and an explanation of the intent of the musician responsible once to understand.
Well anyway, The person who explained the intent was of the opinion that indeed, This was some kind of video that was tryna target India in some way. You said that India falls on gaming leaderboards. That is true. But that doesn't mean you can just shout "You India You Lose"! India has a faster-growing economy than Sweden, 4 times its GDP and definitely enough power to nuke some problematic neighbors. I think I've in a way proved that Indians can claim that they're better than Sweden in very many ways. But this doesn't mean they boast or abuse the nation as a whole!
Your floor and I wanna see this continue soon.
Posted by WrickItRalph 3 years ago
WrickItRalph
I'll make sure to touch on youtube censorship and sexual innuendo in round 2. Honestly, It slipped my mind. I don't know if I should blame middle age or years of marijuana use.
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