The Instigator
Leaning
Con (against)
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The Contender
SupremeSeed
Pro (for)
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Was it a lynching, An execution, A hate crime, A first degree murder? Ahmaud Arbery.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/23/2020 Category: Society
Updated: 5 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 101 times Debate No: 125168
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
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Leaning

Con

Sure it was stupid of the two white fellows.
Yes it's a tragedy.
Yes they should be prosecuted.

But I don't see how it's Murder, The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Just because the guy was black, I don't see why it's a hate crime.
Were the white people waving a confederate flag when they confronted him?
Decked out in swastika tattoos?
Burning a cross?

Be pretty stupid to call the police right before killing someone, If murder was your intent.
SupremeSeed

Pro

I am arguing that the killing of Ahmaud Arbery was indeed a Murder and a Hate Crime, But not a Lynching.

This is because lynching means "inflict severe (but not deliberately fatal) bodily punishment (on someone) without legal sanction. " - (referring to etymonline)

And since Ahmaud Arbery was afflicted with deliberately fatal pain without legal sanction, It would be an understatement to say this incident was a lynching.

Therefore, I will begin my argument by referring to this statement you made
"But I don't see how it's Murder, The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. "

Now according to the footage, Ahmaud Arbury was unlawfully killed in broad daylight by two white men with guns. And logically it had to have been premeditated, Otherwise they wouldn"t have shot an innocent Black jogger to his death in the first place.
So why don"t you see this act as a blatant murder? Is there not literal footage that shows Ahmaud Arbury getting murdered by two white men with guns? Was he not an innocent Black Man jogging down the street?
Debate Round No. 1
Leaning

Con

There was intent to 'apprehend him.
An action which was chosen and implemented poorly. As it seems by the results. Where Ahmaud Arbery struggled with Travis McMichael over the shotgun, And was shot during the struggle.

Per the Wikipedia page regarding the incident.
"In December 2019 and January 2020, Residents of Satilla Shores reported thefts, Trespassing, And activities they deemed suspicious to police and posted on the Satilla Shores Facebook page and Nextdoor account. [46] Three break-ins or thefts were reported. On December 8, 2019, A Satilla Shores neighbor reported rifles stolen from their unlocked car. Police records next reported a theft on December 28, 2019. On January 1, 2020, Travis McMichael filed a report of a firearm stolen from his unlocked truck"

People can get upset and paranoid about defending their homes, Property, Perceived safety.

"On February 11, 2020, Travis called 9-1-1 to report a slender 6-foot-tall black man with short hair wearing red shorts and a white shirt who was trespassing on the site of a house under construction. Travis was breathing heavily on the call, And said, "I've never seen this guy before in the neighborhood. "

Seeing a stranger, And being overly paranoid, Perhaps overconfident in their supposed ability. They call 911 and try to apprehend him.
Premeditated citizens arrest. Is not premeditated murder.
Even if the citizens arrest was unneeded, Wrong, Resulted in murder.
Seems more like
Second-degree murder
Voluntary manslaughter
Or justified self defense.
Though per this debate, My only interest is removing the charge off first degree murder.

Ahmaud Arbery was not 'shot because he was black.
He was shot because there was a struggle for the shotgun, And people (Referring to Travis McMichael here) are stupid fearful panicky animals. Especially when they're afraid for their lives.
Would have been better off not bringing guns (But perhaps they live in a rough neighborhood)
Would have been better off leaving it to the police.

I don't see how a victim 'happening to be black makes something a hate crime.
SupremeSeed

Pro

Before I continue my argument, I would like to correct something that I said previously.
"I am arguing that the killing of Ahmaud Arbery was indeed a Murder and a Hate Crime, But not a Lynching. . . It would be an understatement to say this incident was a lynching"

I was wrong in saying that the killing of Ahmaud Arbery isn"t a lynching because it actually is. The reason why it would NOT be an understatement to say this incident was a lynching, Is due to the history of lynching itself. The word lynch has been used to describe the killings of vigilante murders that included shootings, Hangings and other forms of mob "justice" (referring to history. Com)

So since murder is the unlawful killing of another with intentional malice, And Vigilantes are "members of a self-appointed group of citizens who commit perceived justice without legal authority", It is accurate to say that Ahmaud"s killing was in fact a lynching based off the history of lynching itself and how it is used in context. He was murdered by a FORMER police officer and his son, Who committed their perceived justice by shooting him to death, Without legal authority. Therefore making this killing a lynching.

In addition, Referring to when you said, "There was intent to 'apprehend him. "
The definition of Apprehend in this context means "grasp, Take hold of physically" (referring to etymonline).

So arguing that this killing was an intent to apprehend him, Is an illogical statement. To apprehend somebody doesn"t mean intentionally shooting them to death, That would actually define murder. If they tried to apprehend Ahmaud Arbery, They would've taken a completely different approach. Therefore, The killing of Ahmaud Arbery is a clear murder, As there is footage to prove so.

In addition, If this lynching wasn"t a hate crime, Then what was it? Lynching Black People has always been a hate crime because it is method of White Supremacy.
"Historians broadly agree that lynchings were a method of social and racial control meant to terrorize black Americans into submission, And into an inferior racial caste position. "(from theguardian. Com)

So since lynchings are a method of social and racial control meant to terrorize Black People into submission, As well as terrorize them into an inferior racial position,
Then the lynching of Ahmaud Arbery would definitely be a Hate Crime, Because it is a form of White Supremacy.

White people have a history of killing Black People, (through Slavery, Ku Klux Klan, Bombings, Lynchings, Tuskegee Experiment, Etc. ) they have developed so much confidence in their supremacy, That White people such as Travis McMichael will try and take legal authority into their own hands and unjustly kill Black people such as Ahmaud Arbery. This is a hate crime because this isn't the first time something like this has happened. Lynch mobs would hunt down Black people and kill them based off of a dubious allegation which still wouldn't justify their act of murder.
In conclusion, Based off of the facts, Ahmaud Arbery was murdered or lynched, And it was a hate crime.
Debate Round No. 2
Leaning

Con

Bah, I 'still don't see how a person happening to be black makes something a hate crime.
I 'would call it a hate crime if they were wearing pointy white sheets, Waving confederate flags, Screaming insults related to race, Shooting him from a distance.

From what I understand the video shows Ahmaud Arbery struggling with the gun.
It's understandable he would do that if stopped, Especially if surprised out of nowhere when running. Fight and flight response and all that.
But it also seems reasonable to assert (To me) that if he had not lunged struggled with the gun. He would not have been shot in the ensuing struggle/confusion/panic.

In this context, I meant apprehend him, As 'stop him until the police arrived.

Cops make me nervous any of the times I've been stopped by them, Or they've stopped by my house.
I get super paranoid and leave my hands in plain sight, Even though that's an over reaction on my part.
If I had a toy airsoft gun or something, I wouldn't grab it while in the car, They might shoot me, Though I'm sure they'd feel bad after.

Per Wikipedia "At the behest of Gregory McMichael, A local attorney provided a copy of the video of the shooting to WGIG, A local radio station, Who put it on the station's website on May 5"

Clearly the man thought the video exonerated him.

I'd be convinced of this being a hate crime if there was some proof about them going after Ahmaud Arbery because he was black. From what I've read, It was because he was a stranger, Because of in the neighborhood numerous thefts, Trespassing, And activities they deemed suspicious, Three break-ins, And so on.
If some character witnesses said that they talked about wanting to kill a black person, I might believe it.
If there were documents in their house that attested to them planning on killing black people, I'd believe it.

So far all 'I know is an attempted citizens arrest ended in a persons death.

I'd also like to make a correction to my round 2
Premeditated citizens arrest. Is not premeditated murder.
Even if the citizens arrest was unneeded, Wrong, Resulted in death.
SupremeSeed

Pro

It"s a hate crime because it explains why Travis McMichael, A White Man, Took the initiative to murder Ahmaud Arbery, A Black Man, Without legal authority just because he simply trespassed someone else"s property. This relates to the case of Emmet Till, A young black man who had allegedly flirted with a White woman, "getting killed just a few days later when the woman"s husband and his half-brother beat him so severely that he was unrecognizable before shooting him in the head. " (referring to allthatsinteresting. Com)

Now the reason why Emmet Till"s murder was a hate crime is because its also an example of White supremacy. This is due to the fact that these two white men think it's rational that they have the superior authority of barging into a Black Family"s home, Kidnap Emmet Till and then beat him beyond recognition based on the allegation of him flirting with a White Woman.

Keep in mind White Supremacy is the state or condition of White people being superior to all others in authority, Power or status.

Now similarly, An unarmed Black man named Ahmaud Arbery trespasses a property in construction, Getting the attention of two white men, Greg and Travis McMichael. They then decide that they have the authority to chase down the Black Man in a pickup truck with shotguns. However, Ahmaud defends himself by lunging at Travis with the shotgun. So Travis decides to fire his shotgun twice, Murdering Ahmaud Arbery based on the allegation of him trespassing someone else"s property. This is an example of White Supremacy because two white men decide it"s rational to have the superior authority of chasing down the unarmed Black man in a pickup truck with shotguns, But when the Black Man actually starts to defend himself, They quickly end his life by firing the guns at him.
And since this act of White Supremacy is a hate crime due to it being motivated on the prejudice of race, The killing of Ahmaud Arbery is in fact a hate crime, A murder, And a lynching.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Leaning 5 days ago
Leaning
My mom who's white also thinks it a hate crime, A murder.
But then she's a bleeding heart liberal.
Claims I can't understand how black people feel, And while that's true. I only find that relevant in the 'reaction of the black community. Relevant in understanding they'd feel stronger about it.
Still doesn't mean I think it was a lynching, An execution, A hate crime, A first degree murder.
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