The Instigator
Angiex0
Pro (for)
The Contender
Leaning
Con (against)

We should abolish the 13th amendment

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/16/2021 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 304 times Debate No: 127779
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

Angiex0

Pro

We should abolish the 13th amendment. Slavery is 100% wrong regardless of who is the one keeping slaves and it should absolutely not be permitted. If we abolish the 13th amendment we can finally make slavery illegal. Currently, The 13th amendment permits slavery and tells the goverment when they're allowed to keep slaves. If we abolish it completely, There are plenty of labor laws that would make slavery illegal and there wouldn't be the 13th amendment loophole that tells the governement when they're allowed to keep slaves. Abolishing it will make it illegal for everyone and that's how it should be.
Leaning

Con

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, Except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, Shall exist within the United States, Or any place subject to their jurisdiction. " - 13th Amendment

If someone is forced to pick up trash on the highway, As part of their community service, Their punishment.
Is this objectionable?

The word slavery is often used as a pejorative to describe any activity in which one is coerced into performing. Some argue that military drafts and other forms of coerced government labour constitute "state-operated slavery. " Some libertarians and anarcho-capitalists view government taxation as a form of slavery.
- Source, Google, Wikipedia, Slavery, Other uses of the term


I would argue that our understanding, Use, And definition are at times improved by multiple laws working in conjunction.

I additionally argue that it being attempted to be stated clear, That Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude shall exist within the United States, Or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Is a 'good attempt at making clear the broad gist of the idea.
That slavery is bad, And we don't do it.
Semantics, 'nonetheless exist, Laws and tricks by companies and individuals.
But it makes clear the direction we want.

I'd be more understanding of altering the 13th Amendment, Than abolishing it.

"Every state has laws specifically dealing with child labor issues. When federal and state standards are different, The rules that provide the most protection to youth workers will apply. "
- Source, Google, Dol gov general topic youthlabor statelaborlaws


I'm not very familiar with labor laws, So I await your argument.
The Black Codes, Look to have existed as labor laws, To me, Unjust ones.
But how worse might they have been without the 13th Amendment?
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Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Leaning 1 month ago
Leaning
@Ihsieman
Well, 'maybe.
I accepted this debate at the last hour before it ran out of time.
23 hours from now will tell, I suppose.
Posted by Ihsieman 1 month ago
Ihsieman
Yay, Angie is around, I thought he had left, And I would have to move my list of active members to eight.
Posted by Leaning 1 month ago
Leaning
@Drlebronski
Ideally, Society and justice system designed and operated in such a way, That there 'aren't many people in prison. Difficult when too many people.
Effects of marijuana punishments, Far worse than it being outlawed.

I'd rather Prison and or Jail, Pay for themselves, And be nonprofit.
Well, 'maybe paid for by state a bit.
For job classes for example, Teaching welding or electrician repair, Plumbing, So on.
'Better if education and job skills of citizens was 'encouraged by state, Rather than monetized in college.

Prison being a cube, Where we shove way too many people into close proximity and socialization other criminals and people with antisocial behaviors and habits, Is a problem.

Be better if communities took more care of their own troublemakers, 'close to home, Maybe.
Maybe have citizens live in prison each year, And report conditions, Maybe.
Posted by Drlebronski 1 month ago
Drlebronski
@leaning in fact prison workers are only paid 15 cents an hour and whenever a felon serves his or her time they still can't vote and will get barley if any job offers. Whereas in social democracies like norweigh they get a nice small bedroom and amazing conditions plus rehabilitation. Norweigh also has far less inmates than the us.
Posted by Leaning 1 month ago
Leaning
@steveja
Prison labor concerns?

Worries of abuse of system, Like in movies Brubaker 1980 or The Shawshank Redemption 1994,
I suppose.

Worry that monetizing the system, Might increase desire to design law and society to 'create more criminals, Than less. Or decrease desire to rehabilitate.

Jobs inside prison for convicts don't pay very much I hear.
Posted by steveja 1 month ago
steveja
13th amendment ABOLISHES slavery, When an exception for those convicted of crimes. Further, The 8th amendment prohibits cruel or unusual punishment. So what EXACTLY is the objection to conventional punishments of convicted criminals?

It seems necessary for any sort of order to expel, For example, Repeated violent criminals from society. In doing this we explicitly remove many of their rights, Lock them in prisons, Prohibit them from engaging on many activities. Further the government becomes responsible for the convicts welfare and sasfety during this punishment state. The exception for convicted criminals is simply to allow conventional imprisonment, Where that is not-cruel and not-unusual. And yes imprisonment, And removal of some civil liberties is a form of slavery.

What is the 'Pro' alternative to imprisonment and rights-reductions of violent persons?
Posted by Hezikiah 1 month ago
Hezikiah
Better yet, We should abolish penguins
Posted by brodiescott76 1 month ago
brodiescott76
I would say because the constitution is less malleable than subsequent legislation.
Posted by Leaning 1 month ago
Leaning
@Angiex0
What labor laws are you referencing?
Posted by Angiex0 1 month ago
Angiex0
Then what's the point of the 13th amendment? There are already labor laws that make slavery illegal. They can just come back and reword it again. It's unnecessary.
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