The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
oalks
Con (against)
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What is Atheism? Why be an atheist? What do atheists believe? What is agnosticism? Pride in atheism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/6/2019 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 939 times Debate No: 120665
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (26)
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backwardseden

Pro

Taken from: Atheist Alliance International
Atheism is very simple, Yet widely misunderstood. The word atheism comprises the word theism with the prefix ‘a’. So let’s break it down. Theism is the belief in a god or gods. The prefix ‘a’ means; ‘without’ or ‘lack of’. Therefore, atheism means ‘without a belief in a god or gods’ or the ‘lack of a belief in a god or gods’.

We often hear theists say, “If you don’t believe in God, You must believe God does not exist! ” but this is simply wrong. Lacking a belief in a god does not entail believing that no gods exist. A person could reasonably say she doesn’t know if any gods exist, And there are none that she currently believes in.

This issue is the single biggest misunderstanding about atheism. Fortunately, There is a neat way to show why it’s wrong. A god either exists, Or it doesn’t. There are only two possibilities.

Now, Imagine I’m holding a bag of coins and I claim there’s an even number of coins in the bag. A bag of coins either has an even number of coins or an odd number. Like a god’s existence, There are only two possibilities. If you are not able to check my claim by counting the coins, You won’t know if my claim is true so you should not believe me. But that does not mean that you must believe there is an odd number of coins in the bag. You don’t have the evidence to take a view on it, So you shouldn’t believe either possibility.

It is not necessary for an atheist to claim that no gods exist, Nevertheless, Some do. People often call this position hard atheism. Hard atheism is atheism with the additional conviction that there are no gods anywhere either inside, Or outside, Of the universe.

Why be an atheist?

Sometimes theists are thoroughly perplexed by atheism. The way they see the world, Not believing in a god is bizarre—bordering on madness. So let’s look at why people are atheists. There are several reasons people lack a belief in gods; we will discuss just two.

Some people are atheists simply because they have never been taught to be theists. People raised by an atheist family in an atheistic society may never be exposed to the idea of gods (except in history books), So they grow up with no belief in them. Remember, People do not suddenly become Christians, Muslims, Hindus or whatever. Children raised in religious families in religious societies are trained to be Christians, Muslims or Hindus.

A significant proportion of atheists in the world today are atheists because they were not taught to be anything else.

Other atheists were taught to believe in a god or gods but decided it didn’t make sense so they abandoned their belief.

Let’s look at one scenario. Arif was born a Muslim but he knows there are around 5 billion people in the world who believe in different religions and, Often, In different gods. He wonders if there is a good reason to be a Muslim rather than something else, But cannot find anything compelling.

He worries that the arguments Muslims use to ‘prove’ their god exists are the exact same arguments others use to ‘prove’ their god exists. He knows there are some big questions that science cannot answer, Such as “Where did the universe come from? ” and God is used to answer those questions. But he realizes there is a possibility that science may answer those questions one day. And even if it never does, An unanswered question does not mean the particular god Abraham dreamed about 3, 500 years ago must be real. Arif knows thousands of people have dreamed of thousands of gods and created thousands of religions. He knows men invent gods and religions. What is special about Abraham’s god?

After much thought, Arif sees that his belief is really based on faith, And not on incontrovertible evidence. And he sees that the Christian’s belief and the Hindu’s belief is also founded on faith. With a little more thought he concludes that faith is not a way to distinguish what is true from what is false—it is a way to justify whatever you happen to believe. Different people believe completely contradictory things on faith, So it has no value as a way to decide what is true.

At this point Arif has no reasons left to believe in his god, So he becomes an atheist.

This journey of discovery, Or something rather like it, Is the journey millions of people have taken to become atheists. If you ask any of these people why they are atheists, You would get a similar answer, “Because there are no good reasons to believe in gods; and Iwon’tbelieve in them for bad reasons. ”

What do atheists believe?

There is nothing you have to believe to be an atheist. Not believing in any god, Is the only qualification required. Beyond that, An atheist can believe in anything at all.

So being an atheist, Says nothing about a person’s politics, Attitude towards LGBT rights or views on gun control, Abortion, Church/state separation or anything else. In principle, An atheist could believe in fairies, Although the thinking that leads to unbelief in gods, In most cases leads to unbelief in other things that cannot be shown to be real. Consequently, Atheists most likely will not believe in Satan, Demons, Angels, Karma, Heaven, Hell or anything else that relies on the supernatural but, In principle, They could.

What is agnosticism?

Theism and atheism tell us about a person’s belief in gods. Agnosticism and Gnosticism tell us what a person claims to know, Not what they believe. Because atheism and agnosticism are different things, It is possible to be both an atheist and an agnostic. An agnostic atheist does not believe in any gods but does not claim to know that no gods exist.

It works the same with theism. It is possible to be an agnostic theist—a person who believes in God but does not claim to know God exists. In practice though, Most believers are gnostic theists—they believe in God and claim to know God exists. Interestingly, Most atheists are agnostic atheists.

Some people self-describe as agnostic when they cannot decide what to believe. That’s fine, But if they do not actually believe in a god, They are not theists, So they must be atheists.

Pride in atheism

Over centuries, Theists have denigrated atheists. Stories have circulated that atheists are immoral, Dishonest and untrustworthy, That atheists hate God and love Satan and that atheists ignore God so they can behave however they like. If we look at countries where most people are atheists, We can see such allegations are not true.

Atheists are humans and you will find good and bad, But if you compare atheistic countries with very religious ones, You are likely to see atheistic countries have lower crimes rates and less dysfunctional behavior. For example, Figure 1 shows the relationship between religiosity (the percentage of people who say religion is important in their lives) and intentional homicide rates. All of the high homicide rate countries are very religious but none of the low homicide rate countries are. (Note that the Y axis– Homicide Rate is drawn on a logarithmic scale! )

These baseless allegations against atheists have been made for so long that the word atheism is now seen as tarnished and many people avoid it, Even though they have no belief in gods. Consequently, Some atheists self-identify as freethinkers, Skeptics, Secularists, Agnostics, Non-believers and more. That is a pity. Atheism has a long history and it describes an intellectually honorable viewpoint simply and precisely. We vote to use it with pride.


Rules:
Prove that atheism is something that is not to be accepted and that gods or a god especially the god of the bible is true and is to be accepted. Test, Demonstrate and assert the reasons (yes that's plural) why you believe this to be true.

dsjpk5 is disqualified from voting in the voting process as he likes to play a god.

oalks

Con

Just to be clear: I"ll be arguing Atheism is harmful, Counterproductive, And belief.

Harmful - A rise of atheism will bring about a rise in existential nihilism. With no objective purpose, Life becomes meaningless and characterized by innate suffering.

Counterproductive - Theists built the modern world - and will continue to do so. By asserting the inexistence of God, Something which you can"t prove, You"re reaffirming their belief.

Belief - This should be self-explanatory. Assuming theists could provide no arguments (which is a big assumption), It wouldn't justify the belief of atheism.

With all this being said, I look forward to your objections.

A brief rebuttal

Honestly, This is an incredible misrepresentation of agnosticism. Agnosticism is the perspective that the existance of a God is unknowable or unknown. Atheism is the simple, Reductive belief there is no God.

"Lacking a belief in a god does not entail believing that no gods exist. "

This is actually just tautology; lacking belief and non-belief are the same thing. Even this weren"t the case, It"s curious how only atheists use your definition.

"A god either exists, Or it doesn"t"
It entirely depends on how you define God. If we"re referring to the Christian God specifically this is true. It isn"t justification for atheism, But this is a true statement.

"You don"t have the evidence to take a view on it, So you shouldn"t believe either possibility. "
This is an argument for agnosticism, Not atheism.

"It is not necessary for an atheist to claim that no gods exist"
If they want to justify their belief there is no God they do.

"People raised by an atheist family in an atheistic society may never be exposed to the idea of gods"
Perhaps, But they"d be more agnostic than atheist.

"faith is not a way to distinguish what is true from what is false"
For certain types of faith this is true, For example, Atheist faith is illogical.

"These baseless allegations against atheists have been made for so long that the word atheism is now seen as tarnished and many people avoid it. "
These "allegations" are not entirely unfounded.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

By rules of default since my opponent did not follow the rules that were placed by me for him to follow, He loses this debate. Even so, By his own assertion, His own arguments completely fail because he has not backed up his arguments with evidence. He also cannot prove his god to exist as nobody in the history of the human race has. Its is also clear that my opponent has not read his bible and discovered that his god from its printed word has committed genocide after genocide after genocide thus murdering babies, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions in which he and other supposed christians are supposed to be so against). His god according to his printed word has also committed countless atrocities such as issuing death warrants for blaspheme, Cursing at one's parents, Being gay, Not liking his god, Committing adultery, Working on the sabbath. His god degrades women, And is extremely sexist, Loves slavery, Loves rape etc etc etc. So really, Does my opponent have ---anything--- against atheism when he doesn't even know what it is?
oalks

Con

I apologize for not addressing your rules more directly.
On Atheism

Atheism ought not be believed, Even if we could provide no factual evidence of God's purported existence.
I would challenge you to find a single successful atheist civilization, Then we can talk about "test" and 'demonstration. '
My prior arguments against atheism still stand.


On Religion

I'd like to create a differentiation between God and religion, Lest we run off on a tangent.
Religion is a particular system of faith and worship; God and Gods are specific deities which adherents to a specific religion revere.
Many atheists are religious; many theists are irreligious.


On God

There are many ways to justify the existance of God. I will reduce some of them to a paragraph.

1. Pragmatic
The only societies to succeed were theistic and religious. 
On the individual level, God gives life value and purpose.
Blindly tearing at the foundations of our worldview with no practical justification is harmful lunacy.

2. Proof 

I'd like to make a teleological argument here.
There are different levels on which I could assert this type of argument, But I'll focus on a smaller one.

Specifically, On the bacterial flagellum.
The flagellum has over 40 necessary pieces, When missing a single one it fails to opperate in any successful manner.
Since this incredible complexity cannot be functionally reduced, It would have needed to be developed in one step.
Unless the prior micro-machines had something functional about them (which as far as I'm aware), They don't.


3. Ontological argument(s)

Specifically, The Kalam cosmological Argument because it's my favorite.
Below is the most basic rendition.

Whatever begins to exist has a cause;
The universe began to exist;
Therefore:
The universe has a cause.


Rebuttal
I wish we should stop fighting with tired strawmen. 

The Christian God isn't the exclusive perception of God or his wonderful work. 
To be an atheist you must disbelieve in all the Gods.

On another note: In most religions, I see a path to truth; this simply isn't present in atheist dogma.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

Oh you"re still confused. You still have no idea, None, Not even a comprehension as to what atheism is.
Atheism is not a belief. Its an anti-belief. Atheism simply states 1. The doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. Disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Here"s 3 very good videos to help you out. Now you know me, I could very well slam you with a multitude of them.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=7o5h0DdcyTA&t=264s - Reasons for accepting atheism #1
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=WbxqvugoJuw - Proof that atheism is accurate and correct #2
Atheism doesn"t have the B. O. P. It is the rejection of claims that have not met their B. O. P.
Atheism is the lack of belief in something.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=E3rGev6OZ3w&t=130s - Penn Jillette: Reading the Bible (Or the Koran, Or the Torah) Will Make You an Atheist #3

"Atheism is a response to a single claim, That some god exists. We don"t believe that"s true so we"re atheists. And that"s all it means. " Jen peeples
That"s all atheism is. There"s no book on atheism to help atheists guide them for spiritual counseling or matters of that sort, Thank god.

"Atheism ought not be believed, Even if we could provide no factual evidence of God's purported existence. " OK then what is required of you is for you to prove it. Not for you to ask me questions.
"I would challenge you to find a single successful atheist civilization, Then we can talk about "test" and 'demonstration. '" That"s not a problem" Denmark right now. Germany right now. They are not governed by any fictitious god or doctrines. Now if you really want to get down to it, So is the good ole U. S. Of A.
But here"s where your argument completely falls apart" "My prior arguments against atheism still stand. " How can they stand if you don"t know what atheism is?

On Religion
"I'd like to create a differentiation between God and religion, . . . " Well see you don"t get to because of the very definition of Religion: Religion: 1. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, Nature, And purpose of the universe, Especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, Usually involving devotional and ritual observances, And often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. (notice how the definition used the word "beliefs") 2. A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: (same thing) 3. The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: (same thing) 5. The practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. (same thing but this time the definition uses the word "faith") Faith 2. Belief that is not based on proof: And then the World English Dictionary definition of faith is 1. Strong or unshakeable belief in something, Esp without proof or evidence 4. A conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, Esp when this is not based on reason. So yep. That's what religion is and that's especially true of what faith is.

"Religion is a particular system of faith" yes it is. "and worship;" not necessarily. Go to your thesaurus and see how many synonyms there are that when you punch in "worship" the words that pop up have nothing to do with the definition of "worship" such as honor, Homage, Love, Regard, Respect, Service.
"God and Gods are specific deities which adherents to a specific religion revere. " But you still can"t prove a god or gods exist. So until this happens, And or your god stops playing the biggest hid-n-go-seek game of all time then that is false.
"Many atheists are religious;" You would have to prove this, Because none are. "many theists are irreligious. " Very true. With most, They simply believe just to believe and they don"t know any better.

On God
"There are many ways to justify the existance of God. " Then if you are able to do this, You would be the ---only--- person in the entire existence of the human race to do as such because nobody, Not one person has.
"The only societies to succeed were theistic and religious. " Define "succeed"?
"On the individual level, God gives life value and purpose. " Define life, Value and purpose?
"Blindly tearing at the foundations of our worldview with no practical justification is harmful lunacy. "
Prove it.
When you stick your neck out like that, Then it is your job to prove everything that you state and say. If you can"t then that means that you really don"t care about any truth and you are here just to blab. Now of you do this to make excuses, In which case many do, Then you would be wide above the world in which case there"s no touching down in a flame of water from no escape.

2. Proof
I'd like to make a teleological argument here.
Go right ahead as there"s no such a thing. So I give you fair warning, I will set the danger bar at a very low limit for insulting my intelligence when anything from a "faith" point of view, The bible is used, Or the supernatural occurs in your proof, Which is not proof of any kind.

"Specifically, On the bacterial flagellum. " In which I know nothing about so I say "I don"t know. "

3. Ontological argument(s)

Specifically, The Kalam cosmological Argument because it's my favorite.
Below is the most basic rendition.

Whatever begins to exist has a cause;
The universe began to exist;
Therefore:
The universe has a cause.

A rebuttal is quite simply. . . The argument does not have the word "god or gods" in it so it cannot be used as an argument. It cannot be used in any premise or in any conclusion.

Here"s a few Atheist Experience videos"
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=SPM9gCsohuc (This one is super mean and nasty)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=yeGCIxyAKuU
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=WfB05ufBYzo&t=39s

Rebuttal
"I wish we should stop fighting with tired strawmen. " That"s not one of them!

"The Christian God isn't the exclusive perception of God or his wonderful work. " Oh I see, The universe in which only roughly 4. 5% of it is light and the rest of it is cold empty space. You mean that "let there be light" in which is a HUGE contradiction in the bible itself in the first place god? You mean the so-called christian (don"t worry, There is no such a thing as being a christian), God who invented rules such as death to those who blaspheme, Work on the sabbath, Curse at their parents, Are gay, Do not like god, Are adulterers, Loves slavery, Loves rape, Clearly loves suffering, Not once in his rule has created peace, Anywhere at anytime for any length of time for more than 30 years or longer, Created countless genocides which includes the massive killings for no other reason other that this so-called christian god WAS JEALOUS and murdered babies, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions) etc etc etc. You mean that wonderful work?
"To be an atheist you must disbelieve in all the Gods. " There"s nothing wrong with that.

"On another note: In most religions, I see a path to truth;" What truth would that be?

"this simply isn't present in atheist dogma. " This simply isn"t presented anyway,
oalks

Con

I've watched all 3 of the videos you've provided. If possible in the future, I would prefer if you directly utilize relevant information and then cite the video or podcast as a source with a timestamp. This just makes it much easier to analyze.


So, If atheism is simply an anti-belief then it would require the claim of God to justify its existence. Through this lens, Atheism could only exist in a theistic society. If something such as God cannot be proven or disproven, Then logically your stance is just as fallacious as my own. You're holding onto the presupposition that God does not exist - this is not based on empirical or scientific proof.

Also, You make the claim that 'There"s no book on atheism to help atheists guide them for spiritual counseling or matters of that sort, ' this is simply not true. There have been many atheistic doctrines created to orient them in the world, (Marxism, As a simple example).

"
That"s not a problem" Denmark right now. Germany right now. They are not governed by any fictitious god or doctrines. Now if you really want to get down to it, So is the good ole U. S. Of A. "

Germany and Denmark are not countries which you should have picked as non-religious examples. An estimated 74% of Denmark's population is Christian, And only about 36% of Germany's population is not affiliated with a church. [1][2]

"Well see you don"t get to because of the very definition of Religion: Religion: 1. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, Nature, And purpose of the universe, Especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, Usually involving devotional and ritual observances, And often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. (notice how the definition used the word "beliefs") 2. A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: (same thing) 3. The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: (same thing) 5. The practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. (same thing but this time the definition uses the word "faith")"

This definition has not restricted religion to God or the worship of one. I'm not sure if this is confirmation bias, But this definition only furthers my point about religion not being restricted to God.

"Define "succeed"? Define life, Value and purpose? "

I'd define success as progenation, Happiness, And outcome. In terms of life, value, And purpose: Well, We're alive; God has imbued our life with intrinsic value; this life has an ultimate purpose.

"In which I know nothing about so I say "I don"t know. "

What do you know about then? I can't provide proof to you if you constantly move the goalposts.

"A rebuttal is quite simply. . . The argument does not have the word "god or gods" in it so it cannot be used as an argument.
It cannot be used in any premise or conclusion. "

Well, The most logical assumption is the creator. Something couldn't have come from nothing, And infinite as a concept is illogical.

"You mean that wonderful work? "

No, I mean childbirth, I mean life, I mean thought, I mean creation, I mean everything of intrinsic value because that is the place of God. Your perspective is incredibly pessimistic, There is purpose to life beyond the suffering.

[1]: https://www. Cia. Gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/geos/da. Html
[2]: https://fowid. De/meldung/religionszugehoerigkeiten-deutschland-2017
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

I"ve never used a "timestamp for anything and I"m certainly not going to start now. Its not need for any reason. All videos I post are relevant to the topic being discussed in a HUGE MONUMENTAL WAY that cannot be typed up. And I generally put them in order of their relevance to the subject at hand, Though not all the time. However this time they were.

"So, If atheism is simply an anti-belief then it would require the claim of God to justify its existence. " No. Because there is no justification for any god. Especially the christian god who has brought man nothing but terror according to the bible. And man would be 100% correct to not give ---any--- god ---any--- faith whatsoever which is what all gods require for their survival especially the christian god in which the bible preaches more about faith than anything else which is complete hogwash.
"Through this lens, Atheism could only exist in a theistic society. " No. Atheism exists no matter what. Get rid of all gods and or even the thought of all gods and there is is, Point blank, Atheism.
"If something such as God cannot be proven or disproven, " sure god can be disproven, Simply don"t believe. Duh. I mean come on here. THINK! "Then logically your stance"" Whaoa you have no idea what my stance is because you have no idea as to what I 100% know to be true and I can prove it. And it has been vindicated. So we"ll scrap your "is just as fallacious as my own. You're holding onto the presupposition that God does not exist - this is not based on empirical or scientific proof. " because you cannot give a reason as to "why believe". And no I"m not talking about "god is love" or "god created all life". I"m talking about a genuine honest legitimate answer.

"Also, You make the claim that 'There"s no book on atheism to help atheists guide them for spiritual counseling or matters of that sort, ' this is simply not true. " Well that is true. Each atheist is an individual. Do we follow Marxism as an example? Why some probably do. But billions don"t. Billions probably follow the sun as they get up in the morning. Billions most certainly drink coffee as their three ring circus. There are no clear cut examples that you can give that are cornerstones for atheists to follow except for the very definition of what atheists are. Do I really need to point out the definition of "atheist" again? But see, You are forced into a dying vacuum of bankruptcy, Corruption and immorality from your big black book in which you are 100% forced into believing in WITHOUT PROOF of any kind whether you wish to think so or not IF you wish to believe in your god in which no god would be stupid enough, Not ever, Not for any reason, To use text of all things as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible. PE-IR-OD.

"Germany and Denmark are not countries which you should have picked as non-religious examples. " Naturally you didn"t pay any attention, Did you? Of course not. You do realize that Denmark and Germany constantly rank as the happiest countries in the world year after year after year? Wanna know why? They keep religion out of their politics. Denmark is as socialistic as this world has ever seen. Healthcare, Rent for a place to live, Education (there"s one more super biggie that I cannot think of what it is at this time) they are all free. They pretty much ride everywhere on bicycles. Crime is pretty much nonexistent. And when a murder takes place as it did last year or the year before, Guess what? It made worldwide news. That"s how little crime takes place. They leave their doors open when they go off somewhere, Like to shop, Obviously not to work etc etc etc. My my my it must be nice to be as innocent as you.

You stated "I'd like to create a differentiation between God and religion" You don"t get to do that because of the very definition of the word "religion" AS PROVED, Followed by the very definition of the word "faith" which proved unto as "belief".

"I'd define success as progenation, Happiness, And outcome. In terms of life, Value, And purpose: Well, We're alive; God has imbued our life with intrinsic value; this life has an ultimate purpose. " You don"t get to do that either if you"ve actually read your bible in which case you clearly haven"t. Your god has never, Not once admitted he was "happy". Sheesh. Now you are REALLY p**sing me off because you haven"t the foggiest idea as to what you are talking about. None.
Let"s give you a morality test and see how you do. All of these 6 questions clearly require a "no" answer. If you say "yes" to any of these 6 questions, Then you are as immoral, Bankrupt and as corrupt as your god. If you say "no" to all of the 6 questions, As is required by anyone who is moral, Then you completely disobey your god. Ready?
According to your god you should be put to death if you blaspheme. Do you think that's a proper belief? Y____? N____? Leviticus 24:16, According to your god you should be put to death if you work on the sabbath. Do you think that's a proper belief? Y____? N____? Exodus 31:14, And Numbers 15: 32-36, According to your god you should be put to death if you curse at your parents. Do you think that's a proper belief? Y____? N____? Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, Mark 7:10, Matthew 15:4, According to your god you should be put to death if you commit adultery. Do you think that's a proper belief? Y____? N____? Leviticus 20:10. That's directly from your 10 commandments. Here are some other things that YOUR god thinks you should be put to death for. . . According to your god you should be put to death if you are a homosexual? Do you think that's a proper belief? Y___? N____? Leviticus 20:13, According to your god you should be put to death if you do not worship him. Do you think that's a proper belief? Y____? N____? Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5.
Oh and btw, The NT is far far farrrrrr worse than the OT.

Moving on. . .
"What do you know about then? I can't provide proof to you if you constantly move the goalposts. " I don"t know anything about it. But you know what? It 100% most certainly doesn"t prove god.

"Well, The most logical assumption is the creator. Something couldn't have come from nothing, And infinite as a concept is illogical. " OK Since you clearly know 0% of nothing on this, Let"s destroy you right now. Which creator? Why only one creator? Why not thousands, Billions, Quadrillions? Oh but wait, You held off and you didn"t mention a "god". Why not? That"s because a creator is not by any means a god.
Oh it gets even worse for you because according to Stephen Hawking and his colleague there"s a mathematical equation that proves that something does come from nothing. You might want to have a look into that. Google it.

"No, I mean childbirth, I mean life, I mean thought, I mean creation, I mean everything of intrinsic value because that is the place of God. Your perspective is incredibly pessimistic, There is purpose to life beyond the suffering. "
Then why does according to your bible, Does your god CREATE SUFFERING, HORRIFIC PAIN YOU PATHETIC HUMAN BEING? I could tell you some true stories that would blacken your soul. And then I would tell you about me. YOUR god according to you, Knowingly creates horrific suffering every single day, Every year for millions of children and that"s just as an example. You have no idea, You cannot even contemplate what true suffering is. Your pathetic christ, Just like your god in which you cannot even prove even exists, Had it easy dying on the cross in your pathetic SUFFERING bible which prides itself in torture, Genocide, Terror, Agony, Pain, And yeah, Suffering.

Here"s a question for you and if you can answer this honestly and within reason, Other than the answer that I will be giving you, I will forfeit this debate and let you go on your merry old way" What can children possibly learn from suffering? If you"ve answered "nothing", You"ve answered correctly.

Now if you want to continue this debate, Then don"t act like a junkie sheep with a hood pulled over his eyes and not knowing any better. Because you do know better. And you are better than all of the god crap.
oalks

Con

I will post my argument in the comments, As it won't let me post it here.
Debate Round No. 4
backwardseden

Pro

Yeah it figures that you did not take the morality test. Its because you 100% know that your god is a total bankrupt, Corrupt, Immoral f--kup. And since this superior ego god complex in which all of your bible is entirely about and nothing else is, And since you ignored it, I"m going to ignore you. Bye.
oalks

Con

"Yeah it figures that you did not take the morality test. Its because you 100% know that your god is a total bankrupt, Corrupt, Immoral f--kup. And since this superior ego god complex in which all of your bible is entirely about and nothing else is, And since you ignored it, I"m going to ignore you. Bye. "

I did address it, Considering I had to retype it like 3 times and mistakenly erased a lot of things in my argument. I can post my rebuttal to your copypasta if it would make you feel better. Though I will say it hardly matters in the context of this debate specifically - below are the rules which you provided.

"Prove that atheism is something that is not to be accepted and that gods or a god especially the god of the bible is true and is to be accepted. Test, Demonstrate and assert the reasons (yes that's plural) why you believe this to be true. "

Simply, I had to disprove atheism and prove God or God(s), Not the Christian one exclusively. I believe I met my burden of proof, As you have yet to refute the claims I made against atheism or for theism.
Debate Round No. 5
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
I'm not going to reformat it for a sixth time.
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
"And man would be 100% correct to not give ---any--- god ---any--- faith whatsoever"
This is an incredibly ironic faith statement.
"No. Atheism exists no matter what. Get rid of all gods and or even the thought of all gods and there is is, Point blank, Atheism. "
What you're saying is in direct contradiction with what you've said prior about it being an anti-belief. Hypothetically, If we removed the God claim in it's entirety everyone would be agnostic.
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
"There are no clear cut examples that you can give that are cornerstones for atheists to follow except for the very definition of what atheists are. "
Here are a few things you must believe if you are an atheist: Everything has a naturalistic explanation; God does not exist; religion is the creation of man; Moral relativism; and Evolution. I could keep going, But this is adequate to express my point.
"Did you? Of course not. You do realize that Denmark and Germany constantly rank as the happiest countries in the world year after year after year? Wanna know why? They keep religion out of their politics. "
These nations' populations are highly theistic, It shapes their laws and behavior. They can't possibly seperate their politics from their religious value system entirely; to claim that would be absurd. I simply don't think you could provide an atheist society which isn't primitive or totalitarian.
" You don"t get to do that because of the very definition of the word "religion" AS PROVED, Followed by the very definition of the word "faith" which proved unto as "belief". "
Even the definition you provided indirectly created the distinction between God and religion.
"I don"t know anything about it. But you know what? It 100% most certainly doesn"t prove god. "
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
"Then why does according to your bible, Does your god CREATE SUFFERING, HORRIFIC PAIN YOU PATHETIC HUMAN BEING? "
God does not create suffering without purpose. Simply, Unnecessary suffering is the result of human evil. My God, According to me, Offers a path to redemption to those willing to take it. God stepping in would invalidate the principle of free will - and the overarching purpose of life.
"Here"s a question for you and if you can answer this honestly and within reason, Other than the answer that I will be giving you, I will forfeit this debate and let you go on your merry old way" What can children possibly learn from suffering? If you"ve answered "nothing", You"ve answered correctly. "
Children learn much from suffering, Assuming it's justifiable or meaningful suffering. Part of growing up is failure and the suffering implicitly contained within. Simply, Some suffering is necessary and beneficial, Some is unnecessary and evil.
"Now if you want to continue this debate, Then don"t act like a junkie sheep with a hood pulled over his eyes and not knowing any better. Because you do know better. And you are better than all of the god crap"
The greatest men in history were not above the 'god crap, ' and I don't think myself better than them. This is a topic that has been discussed thousands of years, And will be discussed thousands of years after us.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@oalks - Sorry about that. My meds knock me out after about 20 minutes after I take them and there's nothing I can do or would want to about it. I generally stay awake for about 40 hours and then after taking my meds I sleep for about 24 hours or longer with breaks in between. I cannot sleep without taking my meds. I've tried not taking them and I stay awake for days, So that's far far far worse. In other words my sleeping habits SUCK.
MMmmm K. I'm Waiting. As previously stated. . . I told you exactly what to do and how to do it. So I hope you did it. Did you type up your argument is google docs? Google docs saves every single word you type up. DDO does not. When you type up an argument in DDO and then you try to push it through on DDO, Sometimes it pushes it through. Sometimes it doesn't. This happens to everybody. No exceptions. None. What DDO does about this, It could be one stinking word that it doesn't like, One bible verse as DDO hates them, One repeated word far too often, One repeated number far too often. One link that you've tried to punch through that DDO does not like that's been used far too often, One link that DDO does not like. Who knows? It could be a number of things. Or it could be just one thing that DDO doesn't like. That's why the recommendation of trying to punch your debate through in the comments section is an idea. And also state for an argument something like "DDO is not taking my argument, So it is now posted in the comments section (for whatever RD it may be). That way you opponent can post his argument for the next RD and you are not subject to forfeit. If your opponent doesn't see it that way, Hey its not your fault and its tough luck for him. Makes sense?
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
I told you EXACTLY what to do! Scroll back. I can't repeat it. My meds are taking effect and will knock me out within the next few minutes.
Post your argument in the comments section. And then post in your argument section that your argument is not being accepted so I then can post mine so there's no stalling. Gotta go. NOW.
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
It's simple not allowing me to submit my argument.
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
I submitted it, But it reset the timer and deleted the entire argument
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
I submitted it, But it reset the timer and deleted the entire argument
Posted by oalks 3 years ago
oalks
Well, Dillahunty and Backwardseden both claimed that atheism was an 'anti-belief' of sorts. If this is the case it requires theism to exist. If this is not the case, Then atheism is faith independent of the claim or proof of God.
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