The Instigator
FrizzyHairInc
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Thoht
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Whites are discriminated against more than minorities are today in the US

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/10/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,605 times Debate No: 119435
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (38)
Votes (0)

 

FrizzyHairInc

Pro

Con can go first.
Thoht

Con

Happy to think with you today.

I'll start off simple enough.

According to 2010 US Census data, 64% of the US population describes themselves as "white. " Several additional subsets would likely be called white.

My opponent has to explain how some portion of the roughly 2/3rds of the US population that is white are actively discriminating against themselves.

All of this in a country where blacks are over twice as likely to be shot and killed by police as whites. (unless my opponent would like to argue against basing statistics around per capita)

All of this in a country where white-sounding names are 30% more likely to get called for an interview over black-sounding names. Where black poor people double the number of white poor people. Where black people are subject to disproportionate voter suppression, And jail sentences. Where black people only got the legal right to vote (not that they all actually get it) in 1964. There are millions of people alive who fought for this right.

I can go on for long periods of time. What I'm more interested in is seeing what arguments my opponent has that white people are so discriminated against. The calls I hear from black people are mostly simply asking for equality.

The best you can do is point to affirmative action. This effects an extremely low portion of the population in comparison to the above numbers.

To conclude,

With the above stats I mentioned, I simply can't think of any way black people are discriminating against whites that is so heinous as to overcome nearly a 3:1 population difference, And all of the above statistics. I simply can't continue to go forward without a coherent argument from my opponent. I would, In fact, Wager that the population of 'whites' that discriminate against blacks, Or are actively racist nearly outnumber the literal number of black people that are in America.

May your thoughts be clear,

-Thoht

Statistics sources available on request. (Wash. Post, US Census, Huffington Post, And specific study links)
Debate Round No. 1
FrizzyHairInc

Pro

" All of this in a country where blacks are over twice as likely to be shot and killed by police as whites. (unless my opponent would like to argue against basing statistics around per capita) "
How is that discrimination? Did you ever think that blacks are twice as likely to be shot by police is because their the ones who commit the most felonies?
" Where black poor people double the number of white poor people. "
Like I already said just because there are more poor black people, Doesn't mean the system is rigged against them
Now I will provide you evidence about how white people are discriminated against.
For starters at UC Berkeley there was a protest in which minority students blocked white people from entering the campus for NO reason.
Secondly at a San Jose trump rally, White trump supporters were beat up, Pelted with eggs, And called white supremacists.
Thirdly minorities at colleges are given scholarships and are let into the campus simply due to their status of being a minority while white and Asian students are denied entry.
Thoht

Con

1. Blacks shot and killed 2x as often by police.

There are more whites in jail than blacks. You would expect this based on the population distribution. The statistic doesn't say that more blacks are jailed than whites. It is saying police shoot AND KILL blacks twice as often. This means that police officers tend to shoot to kill against blacks twice as often as whites.

Whites commit the same violent crime blacks do and are much less likely to be KILLED by police when being detained.

The majority of police tend to be white as well. Are you saying these facts have nothing to do with each other?

2. Black Poor People.

You can look in the comments for this. To say discrimination against blacks hasn't caused them to be poor is to invalidate the concept of generational wealth.

Are you claiming that generational wealth is a concept that does not exist, And that blacks are still trying to recover from slavery and discrimination that has barely ended mere decades ago? Even when discrimination clearly still exists in job hiring practices?

I note that you haven't addressed the 30% less likely to be called for an interview claim if they have a black sounding name.

3. Your 2 anecdotes.

Your claim is that, While I'm showing you overall trends in statistics showing blacks are discriminated widely, That some minority guys had a protest and some minorities beat up a few black guys at a rally? This is your evidence?

Are we saying the KKK doesn't still exist and that whites never beat black people up?

Your anecdotes prove nothing. Please, If you're a reader of this article and you think these anecdotes prove anything let me know. They're disasters of logic. My single claim that black names are 30% less likely to be called for an interview trumps these 2 anecdotes alone. I need nothing else that I've claimed.

4. Affirmative Action

I agree it's not a great policy, But it's at least an attempt to address the generational wealth problem that we have in the US. We as whites have built generational wealth off the backs of their ancestors. It may take some time to even it out. You'll find I'm not a defender of Affirmative Action. However, This is an insignificant problem for whites in comparison to the problems blacks STILL face to this day.

On top of that, The debate is that whites are discriminated against MORE than MINORITIES. In the case of Affirmative Action, Asians are discriminated against more than whites. You still lose the debate on these grounds. This is not a point in your favor, In the end. It is a point in my favor based on the debate parameters.

5. Hispanics

Hispanics are a population of people who have been discriminated against far more than whites as well. Imagine having a president who says a Hispanic AMERICAN judge cannot adjudicate his trials. Imagine having some of your family called 'rapists, But maybe some good people' by the President of the US.

To conclude,

My opponent's best claim, Affirmative Action, Work against him based on the debate parameters. If the debate were on blacks versus whites alone, He would have a point. It is not.

After this the only evidence he gives on his side are two anecdotes. A few guys got beat up at a rally. Also, A few guys were made late to class or had to skip class for what, A day? Such tragedies for the white race.

My opponent has clearly given not even a half decent argument. I have nothing to debate against.

May your thoughts be clear,

-Thoht
Debate Round No. 2
FrizzyHairInc

Pro

" here are more whites in jail than blacks. You would expect this based on the population distribution. The statistic doesn't say that more blacks are jailed than whites. It is saying police shoot AND KILL blacks twice as often. This means that police officers tend to shoot to kill against blacks twice as often as whites. "
This statistic does not account that blacks resist arrest and commit crimes at a much higher rate than other minorities such as Mexicans do.
" You can look in the comments for this. To say discrimination against blacks hasn't caused them to be poor is to invalidate the concept of generational wealth.

Are you claiming that generational wealth is a concept that does not exist, And that blacks are still trying to recover from slavery and discrimination that has barely ended mere decades ago? Even when discrimination clearly still exists in job hiring practices? "
Blacks have have over 100 years and right now have nothing stopping them from rising above whites and a black president proves this to be true. Besides i'm not buying this whole idea that they are still trying to recover when the majority of blacks at my school are delinquents and get in trouble at school. Especially when Asians and Indians whom are minorities are as successful if not more successful than whites are.
" I note that you haven't addressed the 30% less likely to be called for an interview claim if they have a black sounding name. "
Did you ever think that's because they may not be qualified for the job and not due to racism?
" Are we saying the KKK doesn't still exist and that whites never beat black people up? "
I don't even think you read the title of the debate lol. I am not arguing that blacks were never discriminated against, I am arguing that TODAY whites are more discriminated against than blacks are. Also your analogy fails as black panther did the same thing as the KKK did.
" We as whites have built generational wealth off the backs of their ancestors. It may take some time to even it out. "
So? Why should I have to suffer because of something my ancestors did? Using discrimination against discrimination is not the answer. By your logic we should punish Jews as the Jews killed Jesus. And we should also kill mongols as their ancestors genocided millions.
Thoht

Con

1. Opponent claims that blacks resist arrest at a higher rate than whites. No link cited. I deny this claim. He's free to post a source in the comments. That source has to show a 2. 5x rate of resisting such that the police shooting to kill is justified to make up the difference in my claim. It will not be, And he will not be able to.

2. Opponent denies generational wealth is a concept that takes time to recover from. Even hundreds of years.

Poor people tend to stay poor. Rich people tend to stay rich. There is a reason blacks per capita are twice as likely to be poor. It is either a genetic reason, To which you can not point and have no evidence for, Or it is an environmental one. Poor environments make for poor people. This is statistically proven. Your anecdotes of "All the black people I know are delinquents and get in trouble" is thoroughly uninteresting and has nothing to do with the topic.

Asians and Indians are more likely to be wealthy than whites. The reason is simple. While most blacks who were brought to America were brought in chains, Statistically more Indians and Asians who traveled and immigrated to America are relatively wealthy. This is a large difference. All you have to do is step outside your bubble of an existence and look at the larger picture for just a few moments to notice these differences.

3. Black names 30%

Your quote:

"Did you ever think that's because they may not be qualified for the job and not due to racism? "

They controlled for the qualification factor. Do you think statisticians are 12 year olds with calculators playing guessing games? They go to school for years and their whole job is to calculate for confounding variables.

4. Beating people up.

Willing to put money on more blacks having been beaten by whites than blacks beating whites, Even in current day America. Neither of us has stats for this so I'm willing to drop it, But why would anyone give you points for this?

5. White people 'suffering' now.

There's no need for white people to have to suffer based on what our ancestors did. The idea is just to make it to where everyone has an equal shot. Right now with how property taxes fund local schools we have rich and poor districts. This is one example of a policy that is in place now that is actively hurting equality, And something easily remedied. Have you seen the disastrous state of some schools versus the wealth of others? Public schools should all be equal. Education is supposed to be the great equalizer. With proper education and funding for it the generational wealth gap will close much faster.

To conclude,

First we have to recognize the problem. Next we have to talk about solutions. No white people need to 'suffer' to help black people succeed. In fact, When the population of a civilization are doing well, The whole civilization benefits. If the consumer pool shrinks, Companies do worse. Rich people do worse. If the consumer pool expands, Companies reap the rewards for their efforts and rich people do better.

Life is not a zero sum game. Don't be one of the people who see it as such.

May your thoughts be clear,

-Thoht
Debate Round No. 3
38 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Denizenkate 3 years ago
Denizenkate
@minddagger

This concept that whites are being discriminated against has only arisen in America since the Civil Rights Act and Affirmative Action came into being in the 1960s and 1970s. Has it not occured to you that this myth of discrimination arises from the fact that our demographics are changing, And the once overwhelming majority that whites have enjoyed is slowly being reduced?

White men have been making the rules in our country since the beginning. The founders were all white men, And the only people allowed to participate in democracy were white men for more than 100 years. I suggest that there is fear in the knowledge that that once-solid grip on power is slipping.
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
Education is responsible for a lot more than helping people acquire jobs.

Education should be to create good people, Critical thinkers, And give people the basic skills required to succeed. You need to understand math to do your taxes, You need to know chemistry to not kill yourself mixing the wrong chemicals. Et cetera. Unfortunately, Our education system in the US doesn't focus on the practical application OF those skills, Merely gets people to do busy work and stupid word problems.

Education CAN help with training in fields, But those should be elective courses.

I'd do education a lot differently, But one thing is for sure, Betsy DeVos isn't helping anything. She's just trying to change things so her family can make more money.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Thoht

I was mainly thinking of enrolment.

I think for education to be effective everything must be valued in its practical sense. How would this help me get a job?
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
My whole deal is that there is no argument that can be made that charter schools will be better for EDUCATION. Any improvements they can make can be made to the public schools and they won't be led by for-profit organizations half the time, And public money won't go to renting schools.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Thoht

Forgot about this.

I'll drop it since the evidence heavily leans to your side and even if I can make the best claim in theory it doesn't mean it would work in practice.
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
I agree affirmative action is the wrong way to go about it, But the goal of it is correct. There's a caveat. There's no caveat with your agreement with me on the equal funding of public schools.

Inserting a fact about median or average household income is speaking about the middle class or upper class. We're discussing rich kids versus poor kids. It's a point that has nothing to do with the discussion.

"If Charter schools were effetive it wouldn't be a problem"

Of course. The problem is they aren't effective, So why are we doing them?

"US has more resources than Switzerland. "

Odd how it seems they're destroying us in terms of education and they've discarded charter schools as an option isn't it? Seems like they tried it and it failed miserably.

Can you produce a shred of evidence that charter schools is a good idea? Nothing about the concept improves education. It's religious people's attempt at getting public funding for religious schools. Nothing more. Why would the public fund something that isn't accountable to the public?

It's interesting how people who oppose national healthcare are making all these statements about efficiency with no proof, Yet I can submit all the proof in the world about national healthcare in other countries and it is more efficient in every way that matters.

Also interesting how you say "The US has more resources to make it effective. " Yet your argument against NHC would probably be that "Switzerland and literally most of the other major countries aren't the US. "

Holding the position that "The US can do it better" on Charter Schools while being against the NHC is contradictory to a fault. How would you respond to this? I'm more than willing to have a debate on Charter Schools or NHC whenever you'd like.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Thoht

"Can you explain to me the difference between median and average? "
Was going to change it but forgot too.

"I'm speaking directly about poor people, And poor blacks. "
Did not make it clear so I can see that as a straw man.

"My argument is not a straw man. The one you have created for me IS a straw man. "
Here is what you said: "So you think poor kids have the same opportunity as rich kids? "
From what I said you gathered that. This is clearly a straw man since you already know the answer to question. No and nothing implied in my argument implied otherwise.

"You can just say you agree with me on the public funding of schools part. It won't hurt you to say I agree instead of attempting to reword what I said. "
It won't hurt for you to agree with what I said to affirmative action. Seems like I can say the same for you.

"Look up charter schools in I believe Switzerland. Charter schools are a pile of trash. They've been tried and discarded everywhere they've been tried. "
You do understand there can be bad charter schools right? I never said it can't be. If the charter schools were effective it wouldn't be a problem in Switzerland besides the United States have more resources to make it more effective.
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
Also "almost certainly racist" isn't me calling you a racist. It's speaking in terms of probability.

So most people who say what you just said are racist. That doesn't necessarily mean you are.
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
I see.

So you can't define your terms then?
Posted by VoReason 3 years ago
VoReason
Thoht -

Calling me 'racist' only proves how much of a yapping liberal tool you are. 'Sharing' in something does not make it "yours. " You should respect the host. Instead you whine and complain about faux injustice.

P. S. : I'm not white. Dummy.
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