The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Con (against)
Anonymous

Why can't christians take god at his word?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/7/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 912 times Debate No: 103453
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (18)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

First off the christian god has freely admitted that he is "evil" on numerous occasions. So the christian god is evil. Yes, that's according---to---him. Its he that matters, not you. So why cannot christians accept the fact that their god is in fact "evil"? I mean what is so hard to understand about that? Secondly, then there's a whole bunch of other negative emotions that the christian god has freely admitted to having such as anger, wrath, vengeance. rage, fury, jealousy... Jealousy? What? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. Third, since this god has these negative emotions it proves ultimately that he is imperfect. Who would want to worship this piece of white trash lard? Forth, oh it gets better because this god neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going man for worshiping this nothingness.

So do you as a person NOT take your friends and loved ones at their word? If you do, well good luck in not having any friends or loved ones.

So your job for this debate as Con is to ultimately prove that god's word is true and just at---all---times. Not just the here and the there. And most importantly "why"? Got it?


Con

First of all, lets establish the facts. I would like to know just exactly where the Bible says that God admits to being evil.

Secondly, these "negative emotions" are only negative in certain sense. Yes, most times when humans are angry it does not lead to good things. But wouldn't you get angry if someone had raped your wife (assuming you are married)? You would be right to be angry. Not all anger is wrong. When God is angry, it is always for a good reason; righteous anger. Anger, rage, fury, wrath... These are just words for the same thing.
Vengeance, while something for humans to avoid, is not all bad. While it has taken on a negative connotation, it really just means recompense or payback. Humans, in their imperfect justice, tend to over-punish. That is why the Bible says, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" [1]. When God gets vengeance, it is in his perfect justice.
To address your concern of jealousy, we will go back to the example of a wife. It would be wrong for you to be jealous of another man's wife. However, it is perfectly fine for you to be jealous of your wife. By this, you show her love. To not be jealous would be apathetic of her adultery with another man. That would be wrong. God is worthy of all the glory. So when humans wrongly ascribe it to another (idolatry), he is rightly jealous to have it back.
So yes, God's word is true at all times! He is perfect and deserves all the glory! I look forward to reading your response.

Sources:

[1] http://biblehub.com...
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Wow you are NOT a christian. But an atheist and clearly an 18 year old as mentioned in your profile who does not study his bible at all to state something completely ignorant like “I would like to know just exactly where the Bible says that God admits to being evil.” Oh yes, you probably don’t know that those who CLAIM themselves to be christians only read their bible’s only do so roughly twice every other week, if that which is roughly an astonishing 80%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s not being a christian. And also if you have any doubt, and if there’s ANY doubt whatsoever, in which there clearly is in your beliefs, then you ARE an atheist. Problem solved.

Now let’s get to YOUR task because you CLEARLY without any doubt or question do not read you bible AT ALL, let’s prove directly that YOUR god states that he IS evil in his bible. And for god’s sake, don’t try to squirm out of it. K? It will only cause more harm unto yourself.
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. (theevilbible.com) [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

1 Kings 22: 22-23 “And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.”

2 Chronicles 18:22,”Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.”

Lamentations 3:38 “Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?”

Jeremiah 18:11 “Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.”

Jeremiah 19:3 “And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.”

Jeremiah 19:15 “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.”

Jeremiah 23:12 “Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.”

Amos 3:6 “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”

Deuteronomy 30: 15 “See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;"

2 Kings 22:16 "Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

2 Kings 22:20 "Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place.

Judges 9:23 “Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:”

”But wouldn't you get angry if someone had raped your wife” Oh absolutely I would be. But you are forgetting that it is your god that instilled those s--t emotions upon man so man could learn to hate. This maggoty lice ridden prick god didn’t have to, did he? Nope. “When God is angry…” stop right there! No supreme deity would have the want, need, necessity, desire, nor the absolute requirement for anger. Yeah indeed it is why there is so much hate in this world. Make absolutely no mistake. Its because of YOUR god.

“Vengeance, anger, wrath, rage, fury, jealousy, yeah, they are all emotions to avoid. Who wants to carry them around? Oh I get it, especially with them forever? Yeah your god does because he is weary and dreary. How sad. How utterly sad. But not to foget, he passed-down-those-emotions-to-man-so-man-could-not-only-do-the-same-but-learn-to-hate-as-well. Talk about ignorant and angry.

Now why would god have the want, need, desire, necessity, requirement for “vengeance when he can bring in an era of peace? Vengeance would go flying by as scrapings and would not exist. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" [1]. When God gets vengeance, it is in his perfect justice.” Yeah its a stupid ignorant concept as the bodies go flying in many of god's injustices.

Whaoah stop. Its not my idea of jealousy. These ideas and many more that you haven’t seen are not brought upon by me, but by other who have clearly thought things through, I just use my lingo to make it sound like its me. After all, its not a wise idea to keep quoting the same person time and time and time again with the exact same quote. That’s a quick way to get to the finish line in an unfinished business with no business card. Oh and btw, I don’t get jealous over my wife if I were to have one. Its a silly noodled concept. Regardless I’d still love her no matter what. Now if I did get jealous of my wife, it would mean that I would utterly be controlling her. That ain’t gonna happen. YOUR god gets his kicks out of his sheer power. And that power puts fear into people. And since there is that fear it means he can control people. That’s entirely what he is all about with his ridiculous superior ego complex. And if you don’t know that, then you don’t know anything at all about your god in which your god SCREAMS of an ego. And that ego proves he is also imperfect along with those emotions he carries around with him in his cherished coin purse in which is nothing more which we as humans would describe as “baggage”. Wow. How true that is.

Summary
So sadly there’s no glory in power, fear and control. Especially when its all geared towards horrific evil and hate as your god has freely admitted to in which you are just making excuses for in which doesn’t work here. Not ever. Especially when you can use those terrorised words that christians fear the most “I don’t know”.

Con

Okay, ignoring your personal (and inaccurate) insults, I will try to address the "point" you brought up. First of all, your adamant assertion that I never read my Bible is a lie. Even worse because it is not even based on a reasonable perception. This, my friend, is called an ad hominem; a degrading personal remark entirely unrelated to the topic of discussion.
To begin with, I can see your mind is closed to truth. As such, you probably have predetermined not to accept whatever I tell you about these verses. Why do I even try? Oh well, I"ll do it anyway. Look, the texts you reference (I"ll address the last one separately) are NOT God admitting to being evil. I will address each text separately.

Isaiah 45:7: Means disaster as punishment (see later explanations)

2 Samuel 12:11-14: By saying he will take his wives and give them to his neighbor, he is saying that his wives will be delivered into the authority of an enemy (his son, Absalom) It was the choice of the son to commit the atrocity, not God"s. The following passage is hard to understand. If we assume the worst, God is a villain. If we assume what is reasonable based on all the other times we see God acting with justice, then He is justified. God could have caused the child to die a painless death (very likely), and then usher the child into heaven. Or maybe the disease was going to happen as a normal part of life, but God would have protected the child, but decided against it. We can"t know in this life. Honestly, the child would have probably experienced more pain in a normal life then he/she did in this situation.

1 Kings 22:22-23: In this case, God is approving a spirit to go into these prophets tempting them to lie (read the surrounding text). God is not doing the tempting; he is allowing a tempter in as punishment.

2 Chron. 18:22: "hath put" = allowed. The final use of the word evil means "disaster". If you read your Bible often (You do, right) you would know that the words evil and disaster are often used as synonyms.

Lam. 3:38: evil= pronouncement of disaster.

Jer. 18:11: Means disaster as a punishment. The punishment would often be invasion. The invaders would commit evil acts, thus the interchangeability.

Jer. 19:3: same

Jer. 19:15: same

Jer. 23:12: same

Amos 3:6: same

Deut. 30:15: God is giving his people a choice between his plan (life) and Satan"s plan (death).

2 Kings 22:16: disaster

2 Kings 22:20: disaster

Judges 9:23: same as #3
In all these cases, we see that God is not admitting to being evil, neither does he cause it. He simply allows it sometimes as punishment.

So would you have preferred a robotic utopia? God didn"t cause those emotions! He gave humans freewill so that our love for him would be optional, yet true love. Forced love is not love. Some humans use their freewill to cause problems that need punished. Yes, he could have eradicated feelings of jealousy and anger, but we would be mindless minions. Do you really want that?

Your last section seems just to be about how terrible you think God is. I can"t change your mind, and you are entitled to your opinion. All I can say is; you had better be darn sure that God is not who he says he is if you are willing to speak like that and live your life in a way that dishonors him. Because if you"re wrong, it won"t be a happy ending.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro


Wow. See that’s the problem with so-called people who claim themselves to be christians and those that are christians, is that they can’t read. Do you know what “reading” is? You know. Words. Sentences. Why is it that those who are not christians and claim themselves to be christians are a lot smarter, have a higher education and intelligence than those who claim themselves to be christains and those that are christians? You prove this with absolute stunning value.


“First of all, your adamant assertion that I never read my Bible… “ Wow, I never stated that. Not even close. Read what I stated. In fact I dug deep into it. And wow because of your utter lack of an edumacation and intelligence, ab-so-lu-te-ly you deserve to be insulted. You will learn in college, should you ever get that far, that when you make up excuses, and thus do not know what you are talking about and try to pretend that you do for something in which you think you have knowledge upon and you really don’t, then absolutely you deserve to be belittled, degraded and dehumanized into nothingness. After all, who would want to hang around with you? And if you do it to your friends and loved ones POOF you will soon and no friends and loved ones. Now if you do it to your teachers, instant F with no questions asked. So why should I deal with you crap? OK let’s see what cards you’ve dealt this time around. And if its invented excuses, as I’m sure it is just by looking at what you’ve printed by skimming through your round, it ain’t gonna happen pal.


“To begin with, I can see your mind is closed to truth.” What? YOUR truth? Um no. Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY except for a small band of christians on this earth will agree with you. Period.


OK now we get into the verses. And here we get into YOUR invented excuses because YOU do not know any better and you are trying to cover for your own a$$ god and yourself rather than admitting that YOUR GOD IS EVIL. And you can’t even take his word at it which means you have no friends or loved ones. None because you have to invent excuses rather than presenting actual evidence. Who is going to sit by and actually watch and listen to it? No one.

Now where exactly do you get YOUR interpretations from and how do you interpret? And if you slip up, we’re done. I’m not even going to look over YOUR interpretations in which are clearly wrong until you answer that question. And again NOBODY will agree with you except for a few small bands of christians. AND do you really think that if you were on the stand and you were to present those verses, that you’d actually be able to get away with it, or would you be convicted? If you think you would be able to get away with it, you are quite insane especially with Isaiah 45:7 and 2 Samuel 12:11-14 in which shows that you clearly know absolutely nothing about hate, evil and morals and are clearly immoral and you’d get the chair in a hurry. So would your god because of them. He’s not all innocent as you think, but clearly a pile of trash. So answer that question or we’re done. Let’s see what s--T you come up with because you have no defense and no outs. None.

Con

Most of your argument didn't even address the points I had brought up.
If your next argument is anything like this one, with profanity and ad hominems, I probably won't even bother to respond. You are clearly just venting, and I don't believe in throwing pearls before swine.
To answer your question, I get my interpretations from the Bible. I interpret by reading the text in question. After that, I think about it in the light of what I already know to have been said in the Bible. By "interpreting scripture with scripture", and seeing what other men (or women) of God have to say, I make the best interpretation I can. Of course, the advice of others is not final. It pales in comparison to the authority of the Scriptures.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

I am so very glad that this is the final round because I will not have to deal with a teeny bopper 18 year old who has to blatantly lie like you in order to cover for your loss in a meager attempt for you to shine bright. And you know it. NEWSFLASH: It didn’t work.
“I get my interpretations from the Bible.” Really? So your “bible” told you the interpretations and what to say for 2 Samuel 12:11-14? Where did it say that? We’re done. Because you 100% know that YOUR bible said it nowhere and in fact its a made up excuse of YOURS and a flat out lie. Oh and guess what snookums, I didn’t even read it. Glancing at it hurts my brain because my intellect is far above yours, because what you composed is not even in the language that your bible trolls in. Have a nice life and try lying to someone who knows better because sorry chump who chews on his tootsie pop far too hard, I DO IN FACT KNOW A LOT BETTER. My that was fun. Your god is evil by his very own words and yet you cannot even take him as such which means that you do not have any friends either because you cannot take them at their word.

Summary

If you actually had something other than your own arrogance to go along with your complete and utter ineptitude, you might actually be a good debater rather than bringing in complete and utter fatal fallacies that you 100% know do not exist. Let that be a lesson to you for you to follow and drag you along with you in your years in life. Because if you don’t, your own brain, and you thinking you are so smart, especially when you are not, is going to 100% slap you in your face, especially when you will not see it, and rightly and deservedly so.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 18 records.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
Jak3ld
Um I am very confused as to why you would say the christian god is evil. If, according to Christians he is perfect then of course he would want us humans to follow him since also according to Christians we are all inherently evil. You must first either prove that God is evil, other than just saying he is self-centered, because that just doesn't work if God is perfect. Also his "imperfect" emotions are in fact perfect according to Christians because he is perfect. He feels anger because he knows what is right. He feels jealousy because he is afraid that we will be damned if we do not follow him. This argument can be easily circumnavigated by Christians because to them God is perfect and therefore justifies all these "negative" things about him. You on the other hand are going the opposite way and using the "negative" things about him to justify that he is not perfect. It's like two ships passing in the night. There is no real meat to this conversation.
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
Jak3ld
Um I am very confused as to why you would say the christian god is evil. If, according to Christians he is perfect then of course he would want us humans to follow him since also according to Christians we are all inherently evil. You must first either prove that God is evil, other than just saying he is self-centered, because that just doesn't work if God is perfect. Also his "imperfect" emotions are in fact perfect according to Christians because he is perfect. He feels anger because he knows what is right. He feels jealousy because he is afraid that we will be damned if we do not follow him. This argument can be easily circumnavigated by Christians because to them God is perfect and therefore justifies all these "negative" things about him. You on the other hand are going the opposite way and using the "negative" things about him to justify that he is not perfect. It's like two ships passing in the night. There is no real meat to this conversation
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
Jak3ld
Um I am very confused as to why you would say the christian god is evil. If, according to Christians he is perfect then of course he would want us humans to follow him since also according to Christians we are all inherently evil. You must first either prove that God is evil, other than just saying he is self-centered, because that just doesn't work if God is perfect. Also his "imperfect" emotions are in fact perfect according to Christians because he is perfect. He feels anger because he knows what is right. He feels jealousy because he is afraid that we will be damned if we do not follow him. This argument can be easily circumnavigated by Christians because to them God is perfect and therefore justifies all these "negative" things about him. You on the other hand are going the opposite way and using the "negative" things about him to justify that he is not perfect. It's like two ships passing in the night. There is no real meat to this conversation
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
backwardseden
@C_e_e - I'm like this all the time, just lil ole me. And christians, who are in their stables at all times, because they have one major flaw, among many other major flaws, which is they cannot even prove their god even exists, always have the backhand like a swatted fly. They somehow think that mere faith will somehow squeeze them through their nipple guns. But since when can faith be proved? Hey if it could, creationists would jump at the chance to put god on trial again. Nah. They won't. Not without being able to prove their faith. And what is precious faith to them but empty baggage dragging along in a cart of misery just aching to squeal?
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
backwardseden
@subdeo - How can there be blasphemy of any kind considering the fact that YOUR god does ---not--- exist AND especially considering the absolute fact that you cannot in ---any--- way prove that he does? AND with all the hate and evil that YOUR god represents, why should anybody care, much less care about mere "uncouth blasphemy" considering the fact that this god of YOURS in print hates gays, children, women, loves raped women, anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy etc etc etc?
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
DeletedUser
"unapologetic delivery"?! More like uncouth blasphemy!
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
DeletedUser
"unapologetic delivery"?! More like uncouth blasphemy!
Posted by Anonymous 3 years ago
C_e_e
I felt like patting Seden on the back. It's refreshing to see this kind of unapologetic delivery.
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