The Instigator
Isaac2019
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DeepInThought
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Why do so many say Israel doesn"t need to be a Jewish State

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 686 times Debate No: 108205
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

Isaac2019

Pro

Please give arguments supporting why this is when Anti Jewish hate is on the rise and a fundamental human right says all cultures are entitled to a safe place to practice their way of life. There are 50 or so Islamic countries loads of Christian ones and no Jewish one anywhere except Israel! I"m 100% pro Israel but I do see the Palestinians need a separate place to practice their Islam as they want!
DeepInThought

Con

Hello Isaac2019, I would like to thank you and accept your challenge, and debate whether or not Israel should or shouldn't be a Jewish state. Or at least that's what I think you where getting at, from what you where saying in the specifications of the challenge in the first round. Unless you where literally asking why do so many say Israel doesn't need to be a Jewish State, in which you kind of gave one reason in the first round, so... vote me.;)

All kidding aside I hope this will be a fun and informative debate, that both sides, and all who read it can bring away something from.

I will let you have the chance to have the first argument.

P.S. I saw that you just joined the sight, So I would like to welcome you to Debate.org.
Debate Round No. 1
Isaac2019

Pro

Fiest thank you for welcoming me very kind of you.

Ok as to my views I"ve seen many say things like Israel needs to get over itself and doesn"t need a Jewish majority etc. Well the history of hate towards Jews in Europe and elsewhere plus the fact Arabs and Islam would become the dominant religion and people of say a one State sure solution was brought to the conflict means a Two State Solution needs to be found. Sadly Netanyahu and Abbas aren"t the men to achieve that. So my argument is essentially Israel needs to remain a Jewish State.
DeepInThought

Con

I can understand your feelings about how in the past the Jewish community was subjugated and oppressed. This is why they where given Israel in the first place. The biggest problem that I see is not that their is an Israel, (meaning a Jewish country in general) but where it is.

The British Empire had invaded Palestine, but as their time for imperialism ended, they started giving lands that they once conquered back to the people still living their. Palestine was also promised this treatment, and they where very exited to get control over the holly land again. (it is their holly land to, along side the Christians and Jews) But with the end of WW2 the Holocaust survivors (reasonably) didn't want to go back to the places that had aloud them to be taken to the camps in the first place.

Much to their delight, they where promised their old promised land back, but the problem was, was that now the Palestinians, and Muslims in general, who where promised the lands for themselves, where forcibly removed to make room for the new country. Meaning that they had been lied to and stolen from by the Brits.

Understandably the Muslims didn't take this very well, and although I would have preferred a more peaceful approach to the problem, they saw this as a direct attack on them, which is why several of their countries launched an attack on the new nation on it's first day of being an official country. The Quran dictates that members of the Islamic religion are permitted to defend themselves, but if those who are attacking them surrender, or are no longer a viable threat, they are demanded to not seek revenge or farther the conflict. This was the reasoning behind the following wars, that have lasted to this day.

What I'm getting at is that the problem resides mainly on the foolish placement of what was then the new Jewish country. Obviously, we in the states wouldn't take to kindly if we had to give up a state with great significance to us like Massachusetts or something, and that would just be a state, much less the land that is the most important holiest of lands to your culture.

They should have been given a land that was not so important to the neighboring population, to where we now have 2 religions fighting over the same Holly land for the same God. (heck if it meant peace, I would have given them Massachusetts)

As I said, for me it's not so much that the Jewish people have a country (although I am against mixing church and state, of any religion or country, but that is not important right now) It's more that the country was put in the wrong spot, where tensions couldn't have gotten worse.

These are some of the reasons why I think that the country known as Israel as it is, should have never existed (Not blaming them, it was just rely poor planning, that could have been avoided)

Now that that's out of the way, we can focuses on what you have said so far in this debate.

In the first round you said that you "do see the Palestinians need a separate place to practice their Islam as they want!" Well this is one of the reasons that I gave that little back story at the start of this round, it was to point out that the holly land (epically Jerusalem) is seen as THE place to worship, do to the fact that they both worship the same God, and for Muslims it is just as important to them, because coincidentally, God's presence on earth, the most holly of holly spots for both religions, the place where the temple of Solomon stood, (that the Israeli people and government have expressed interest in rebuilding) and the dome on the rock that is there now, are in the same location, and neither can be moved.

We seem to disagree about whether a 1 state or 2 state approach would be best, but I won't touch that one because that would be a totally separate debate, that I don't have time to get into at this time.

We do seem to agree that the current Israeli government and the Palestine Liberation Organization , isn't doing very good when it comes to finding peace. What with the only human rights that haven't been completely trampled upon in the West Bank and Gaza strip under Israeli occupation, according to the UN, is Articles 4, 14-16, and 18. (while the PLO not being much better with their every once in a while sending a mortar round into Israel territory) So I wouldn't farther that argument.

So in recap.
1st Israel as it is shouldn't have existed, and only did do to poor planning, and broken promises from outside groups.
2nd Both factions have a strong claim to the land, politically, historically, and religiously that can not be ignored.
3rd Most people that I have talked to, or read about, who are Con Israel, don't have a problem with their being a Jewish country, we are just against how the current Israeli Government is ran, and how they abuse the human rights of Palestinians in Israeli occupied territory, by literally starving them out, with their blockade, and ignoring almost all of their fundamental human rights. Making it to where the UN had declared in 2014 that the West bank and Gaza strip where the worst place for human rights in the world.

I will have to end my round here. Sorry for the long wait, I broke something of mine that was expensive, and wasn't much in the mood to debate, after that.

I can't wait to see what you have for me next. (and maybe I won't have to rush next time)
Debate Round No. 2
Isaac2019

Pro

Hello sorry was bit busy over last 24 hours.

You posted a good argument though I just want to point a few things out. I totally support a two State solution and even don"t care let the Arabs have Jerusalem if that brings peace. But Jews need a homeland and while I agree errors were made in 2948 the seed is done and 6 million Jews aren"t going to leave now. As a Jew myself I feel that with huge waves of anti semitism across the globe Jews can"t just exist as minorities in Christian or other countries and also Palestinians are playing a game where by they are trying to claim Israelite heritage and take our history away. All in all so many issues here:(

Also a one State solution would just make the Jews a minority again and could cause intermarriage to happen something we Jews don"t approve of.
DeepInThought

Con

I would like to apologies in advance here. This may be my ignorance coming out, but as someone who doesn't rely belong to any group I don't see how cutting your selves out from the world, by having a country specifically for the Jewish people is so important, why not try to make peace with the Palestine's and merge with one another, to make a country with religious freedom as a priority, help each other rebuild the country as equals. (As I said before, I am pro a separation of church and state no matter the country or religion)

Because yes it is impractical to request the 6 million Jews to leave, but the same can be said for the 3.9 million Palestinians who are starving. They will eventually need to fight Israel on a large scale, if the wars continues, and Israel, doesn't stop killing them. Because that's what desperation does, it makes you fight. This is a rule of nature that even the smallest of mice knows, when they are faced against a cat.

I understand that mending the hostilities will be a long, difficult journey, and their will always be a scar, but it can be done, no it has to be done. because the Jews of Israel, and the Muslims, of Palestine have but two options before them. They can live together, or they can die together. The choice is up to them.

As for anti Semitism, yes their are those who hate the Jews, Their are those who hate Blacks, Asians, Al-Sharq Al-Awasat, Sikhs, people in general, Muslims, Christians, North Americans, South Americans, and people of any religion or ethic background that is not theirs. But segregating ourselves in our own little countries, is not going to make things better. Only by trying to talk, and understand one another (as where doing now) will let us move on to a more peaceful world. Because isn't that the best part of having free will, having the ability to change things for the better, for you to change things for the better. (and if you do this than the Palestinians, won't need to impersonate your culture, in order to get better treatment in Israel)

I would like to thank you for this most fun and Informative debate, you have taught me some thing about your culture that I was not aware of.

I would like to apologies to the voters, and anyone reading this, I have never been able to figure out how to get a hyperlink on this web sight (it may be the computer) but I would like you to Google (or Bing which is what I used) to look up the arguments that I posted. here is the ones that I can remember...

UN.com, Bing, Wikipedia, amnesty international.com
Thank you for reading, but I am running out of time for the debate, and need to go to work.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.