The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
skipsaweirdo
Con (against)

Why is it that christians cannot present anything new that atheists haven't debunked countless times

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/23/2021 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 342 times Debate No: 127950
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

* The Ontological argument fails completely. After all there"s no possible way that god can prove its existence to anyone. Not ever. This is according to the bible itself. Let"s see if you can figure out why? It really is quite simple.

* Pascal's Wager = That you should wager for god? Pascal's Wager is not an argument against atheism, But a threat. Say you "believe" in god? Well which god first of all? And how do you know that you "believe" correctly in which case absolutely ---nobody--- does and or can according to the bible? Regardless, Say you believe and you will get an automatic bid into this mythical "heaven"? So what? What idiotic moron would ever be stupid enough to want to be stationed there for all eternity if Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hong Xiuquan, Idi Amin, Bundy, Any serial killer, Pedohile, Rapist, Torturer, Etc etc etc are going to be there which is not to your knowledge as there"s an escape clause if they repent they will automatically have a spot in this mythical heaven whereas those who do not believe in this mythical christ are doomed to burn forever and ever in this mythical hell? This is the worst philosophy from any religion by far. Pascal's Wager? Nah. What of a dummied up idiot's delight with the cards dealt right to you to play your hand just right.

* The Argument from "personal" Experience which is the same thing as a nothingness collapsed void because this triggers back to why doesn't this meaningless meandering unproven god lookout for suffering children who are raped, Beaten, And tortured, Sometimes for decades, Which is far far farrrrr worse than a mere 17 hours, Tops, Than the unproven christ suffered, Rather than a supposed "somebody" like you who has had a "personal experience". Does that make any kind of sense in the real world? No! Not to anyone who is sane.

* Faith = Only in the greatest flop of the bible would faith be such an iconic presence and used as a superior weapon rather than this supposed unproven storybook character fabled fantasy undefined whatever supposed "god" OF PRINT ONLY from a BOOK, Namely your bible, That nobody in the entire existence of the human race has ever been able to prove even exists actually proving its existence which would be its fault that it doesn"t and thus using the media frenzied idea of "faith" instead of truth.
"It's called faith because it's not knowledge. " Christopher Hitchens
"Why would a god rely on faith instead of evidence? " Matt Dillahunty
"Faith is the reason people give when they don't have evidence. " Matt Dillahunty

* The Kalam Cosmological Argument has nothing to do with the god of the bible. You nor anyone gets to insert the god of the bible, Or any god, Just because it fits your descriptive purposes to make your religion and or life more meaningful so you can tuck yourself in and sleep soundly at night with all the proof that you believe you have. So exactly where does "god" that "pops" into existence that you cannot prove exists, Fit into The Kalam Cosmological Argument?
Regardless, It is a false premise for multitudes of scientific reasons.
https://medium. Com/@justintime25/the-case-against-the-kalam-cosmological-argument-9a7e535dee05

Here are a few vidies that also point the Kalam to be false"
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=TZxf6NwFIKo - If you don't know the answer, That proves god! Kalam 4:00 Kyle Butt Viced Rhino
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=1u9ZIQ33a8c - Atheist Destroys The "Kalam Cosmological Argument" Atheist Experience Russel and Jen
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=nKSn32QmurQ - The Kalam Cosmological Argument isn't about God Paulogia - Tha Kalam isn"t about god
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=cpC8WtufJbo&t=106s - The Arguments for God's Existence Tier List (there's a lot more that goes on here. Regardless, This starts at roughly the 5 minute mark) Genetically modified Skeptic
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=xiCUoyYp6BM - Necessary Thing Explains Reality | Paul-(UK) | Talk Heathen 05. 21 Kalam

There's plenty more arguments that so-called christians come across that are so very easily debunked and will continue into further RD's that atheists like myself and millions of others simply get tired of explaining time after time after time again and again and again and again especially to those who think they know it all and are not willing to listen. We as atheists who do things like this, Do you really as a reader and you are a supposed christian, Do you not know that we are 5 steps ahead of you and we "probably" though it's not a guarantee already know what you are going to say long before you are going to say it? However, You do not know what we as atheists think, Or believe. Why? You probably don't even know what an atheist is.

We as atheists function as individuals. We are not tightly wound up on a bundle of big black siphoned books that you base your lives on. We as atheists think, Reason, Rationalize, Use common sense, Use logic completely differently. The only thing as a whole that we have in common is that we believe that there is no god(s). That's it. And yet you as supposed christians have trouble with the first page of your book and getting a consensus on that. It's something to think about.
skipsaweirdo

Con

. ' After all there"s no possible way that god can prove its existence to anyone. Not ever. '. . . . Prove it, With evidence

" how do you know that you "believe" correctly in which case absolutely ---nobody--- does and or can according to the bible? "'. . . . . Prove it, With evidence

" like you who has had a "personal experience". Does that make any kind of sense in the real world? No! Not to anyone who is sane. '. . . . . Prove it, With evidence

"Faith is the reason people give when they don't have evidence. ":. . . Prove it by a bowing the evidence you used to claim this

"If God didn"t need a creator, Then by that same logic neither did the universe. The universe could be eternal. ". . . . . So, By this logic something could be eternal, According to the "debunked" 'flawed' Kal Cos argument. . . . . I. E. It's possible the Kalam is sound by their own reasoning. . . So it's possibly not flawed, So it's not debunked by definition. Atheists are so f'cking stupid

If atheism is true, It can never be proven correct
If atheism is false, It can be proven wrong
If God belief is true, It can be proven true
If God belief is false, It can never be proven false
By definition, Atheism is an idea that will never be proven but theism by definition could be proven. Is it more rational to adhere to a nonanswerable concept or hold a position that has a possible answer?

"(atheists) Use logic completely differently. ". . . Agreed. . . Christians don't believe logic can be used differently regardless of position, Belief, Etc. . Logic can only be used one way, By following its laws accurately. Atheists are too stupid to recognize that debunked means your argument CAN NEVER be wrong because they admit within their debunking that their "debunking" may possibly be wrong.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

"After all there"s no possible way that god can prove its existence to anyone. Not ever. "
Not very bright kid to ask such an ignorant question. Because then this, If proven correct;y, And it will, It will negate ---everything--- that you as a supposed believer, Believe in. So---why---did---you---promote---your---stupid---pitiful---arrogance into such a pitiful display to horrifically proven wrong? Nah. Not to you! Oh and btw, I didn't get this by myself. But from other atheists AND I showed this to my CHRISTIAN psychologist a few months ago who has counseled for over 60 years and he agreed with tears in his eyes because he realized it was true. Ready? Good. Here we go. . .
All that anybody needs/ requires to say to any blithering idiot theist such as yourself since you believe you are so smart but you really are not and believe you know everything that there is to know, But you don't, And there's no way around this no matter how much denial you go into, Like it or not, Your whatever supposed unproven "god" cannot prove its existence to anyone. After all, It lied in the print that you read with several different verses which means that nobody can ever know when your supposed whatever unproven "god" is telling the truth, Fact from fiction, Which would include when it is telling anyone the truth which could be a lie about its storied existence. There is no possible way that YOUR unproven storybook character god can possibly ---ever--- prove its existence to anyone. Not ever. ***** (see below)
* Ezekiel 20:25-26 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, And judgments whereby they should not live; 26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, In that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, That I might make them desolate, To the end that they might know that I am the LORD. "
* Ezekiel 14:9 "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, And I will stretch out my hand upon him, And will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. "
* 1 Kings 1: 22:23 "Now therefore, Behold, The LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, And the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. "
* 2 Chronicles 18:22 "Now therefore, Behold, The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, And the Lord hath spoken evil against thee. "
* 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, That they should believe a lie:"

"how do you know that you "believe" correctly in which case absolutely ---nobody--- does and or can according to the bible? '"
Well, How do you believe correctly? Which translation do you believe correctly from in the hundreds of thousands of translations? Oh and btw, There's over 33, 830 denominations of christianity alone. So which denomination is correct? Https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=wXHJEfRC3ns - 101 Facts about christianity
*73 "2001 World christian Encyclopedia counts 33, 830 denominations of christianity which has likely risen since then. - "Crazy to think that one of these versions is the correct one"
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=x-slAgzJmdU - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=5YPVtSaqwi4 - Unfilling Prophecy Aron Ra
Jewish prophecies of the Mashiach
1. He must be jewish
2. He must be a member of the tribe of Judah and must be a direct male descendant of both King Soloman and King David.
3. He must gather the jewish people from exile and return them to Israel.
4. He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
5. He must bring world peace.
6. He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one god.
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=6lqC8fvIspY - jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra)
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=KXAGpCTiGlQ - The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens)
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=apS_679ru50 - Did jesus Exist?
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=9AzwJ9d4i1g - Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier)
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=AJMd5UiTeys - Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years? ")
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=lDpEeHD54Mo - The Gospel According to Carrier (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, But scrap all the mythology)
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=O5AordEPtok - Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=hmKTUOzXRkI - Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, Or how not to debate an Atheist! (skip to the 7:00 mark! ) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue.
* https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=NAqEmYJcXX8 - What did jesus do for you?

Great family values statements "abandon your families, Give away ---ALL--- your possessions, Follow me:"
How many, Well like pretty close to 0% actually do these things and thus believe correctly? Ah yes, No invented excuses, Please. Thanx.
Matthew 10: 35-37 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, And the daughter against her mother, And the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. "

Luke 12: 51-53 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, Three against two, And two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, And the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, And the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, And the daughter in law against her mother in law. "

Matthew 19: 28-29 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, Judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, Or brethren, Or sisters, Or father, Or mother, Or wife, Or children, Or lands, For my name's sake, Shall receive an hundredfold, And shall inherit everlasting life. "
------
Luke 14:33 "So likewise, Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, He cannot be my disciple. "

Luke 18:22 "Now when Jesus heard these things, He said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, And distribute unto the poor, And thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, Follow me. "

Matthew 19: 28-29 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, Judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, Or brethren, Or sisters, Or father, Or mother, Or wife, Or children, Or lands, For my name's sake, Shall receive an hundredfold, And shall inherit everlasting life. "

Matthew 19:21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, Go and sell that thou hast, And give to the poor, And thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. "

Matthew 13: 22 "He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, And the deceitfulness of riches, Choke the word, And he becometh unfruitful. "
-----
There's plenty more on this issue but let's roll on.
" like you who has had a "personal experience". Does that make any kind of sense in the real world? No! Not to anyone who is sane. '. . . . . Prove it, With evidence
Already proven ***** (see above)
-----
"Faith is the reason people give when they don't have evidence. "
That answers itself.
"If you care about something is true, Faith has no place. Your faith is indistinguishable from the faith of the people"s of those who disagree with you. It's not a path to truth. Faith is accepting something. Faith is gullibility. Faith is the reason, The excuse people give when they don"t have a good reason. I"m talking about how we find a good reason. And if your only answer is "well the bible says so, Or you just have to have faith", Then you"ve demonstrated that you are not actually concerned whether it's true. " Matt Dillahunty

"If we genuinely know something, There"s no need to take it on faith. And if you"re going to accept it on faith, Then you"re going to have to play in the arena where every other religion, Every other belief system, Every other truth claim, Playing the faith card gets equal treatment otherwise you"re being a hypocrite about faith. I think faith is a TERRIBLE way to determine what is true or not true. I don"t want to just believe. Let"s go out and know, Or try to know. And if we can"t find the answer instead of making one up or taking it on faith we say that we are simply honest with others and simply say it "I don"t know". I hope to one day know and make that JOURNEY about an evidenced based exploration of facts and a journey towards knowledge with no faith at all in play. " Seth Andrews

You have 2 sets of parents that believe in god with dying children and they both pray exactly as hard and use exactly the same prayers. One child dies, The other doesn't. Is there justification for faith in god for the parents of the child who has died? Absolutely not!

You've been proven false on everything. I can back up what I state. You can't.
I'm out of space.
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Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by backwardseden 1 month ago
backwardseden
@canis - You know you always give me something for my tinderbox fizzled void of a mind to scratch as well as have an oil spill at. So thanx!
Posted by canis 1 month ago
canis
"Why is it that christians cannot present anything new that atheists haven't debunked countless times". . .
Why not turn it a bit? . . "Why is it that atheists cannot present anything new that theist havent debunked countless times. .
Well. . 1. They never debunked anything.
2. If they did not debunke anything. . Artheist gave them anything to debunke. . . And it never happened.
Posted by backwardseden 1 month ago
backwardseden
Atheists are not proposing that we know what the laws of the absolutes are. Theists are proposing that and that"s why they always have the B. O. P.
No sorry. The B. O. P. Is entirely upon theists every single time, No exceptions, None. Why? THEISTS CAN'T EVEN PROVE THEIR GOD EXISTS! Atheists are not the ones proposing what the restrictions and confinements are. Theists are. That's why the B. O. P. Is ---always--- upon them. That's the laws they set. If they don't like it then they should not propose a god. So why should atheists go out of our way to prove that a god does not exist? How ridiculously counterproductive that is. So once again, The B. O. P. Is 100% always on theists, No exceptions, None. Makes sense? Of course it does!
1. Theists MUST test, Demonstrate, CLEARLY DEFINE, Assert and declare their unproven undefined god and yeah, Set their god right in front of my idiot box.
2. Also they must be able to ask of their unproven supposed god the number I am thinking of between 1 and a million and then relay that number back to me and get that number correct.
Since they cannot do it WITHOUT INVENTING RIDICULOUS TEPID EXCUSES which I am so so so tired of, As they always do because that is within the normal patches of the brains of those who are religious rather than saying "I don't know", Then their god does not exist, Though they naturally cannot admit it, Ever, And they've stumbled onto a cold void into where they do not wish to be. Simple.

You'll get a kick out of this. . .
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=M0t0LmQ0I2k - I Have Been in the Presence of God, Literally

Now do you really believe, Even remotely, That there is a "foundation" for a god? Ok. Then the B. O. P. Is upon you to prove it! Ask yourself this question. . . Do you believe that you are someone who is above everybody else who has not been able to?
Please tc and haveth tee fun!
Posted by backwardseden 1 month ago
backwardseden
@Cowboy7C - Have you actually read the bible to see how sick, Perverted, Diseased, And disgusting it is? AND it's read to and by children? AND this unproven storybook character fabled fantasy undefined whatever supposed "god" OF PRINT ONLY from a BOOK, Namely the bible, That nobody in the entire existence of the human race has ever been able to prove even exists gives people false hope? AND in no possible way can this whatever supposed so-called "god" EVER prove its existence to anyone, Not ever? Etc etc etc.

The "theory" of evolution is not a theory and is a proven fact along with the interconnection of Mother Earth/ Mother Nature/ Gaia Mother Earth. AND nearly 100% of all species require death in order to live. All was known for thousands of years but was finally given vindication only a few short years ago.

"To say that there is no foundation for God. . . Which would be a totally ignorant thing to say. "
Nope. *** (see below) What if it's lying as according to the bible it did? This means that in no possible way can anyone know if it is presenting the truth, Fact from fiction, Which would include it telling the truth or a lie about its very existence.
Also, No true god would use text/ the written word in the first place as a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence which is the worst possible way to get its messages across from itself to man.
Also, There is no possible way to test, Demonstrate, Assert, Define, Declare a god.
Btw, Which god? And why only one god? Why not thousands, Millions, Billions, Quadrillions of gods? Or the very best bet is why not any gods since there is not even a sliver of evidence to back up any claim from any religion ---ever--- that any god exists?

"The question I personally would ask you is, "Prove to me that God cannot exist? "
I just did. (see above)***

"Christians have to prove He does exist"
Yeah. They do in which case they nor nobody can. The B. O. P. Is ---always--- upon them. No exceptions. None.
Posted by Cowboy7C 1 month ago
Cowboy7C
I have a better question. Why do you continue to debate on something you believe does not exist? Other than simply being contentious I don't see the point in arguing against ANYTHING you deem non-existent. On the other hand I see no problem with a Christians arguing against atheism because they are not arguing against something that doesn't exist.

Example: the "Theory" of evolution exists, Everyone KNOWS this theory exists. So, Arguments against evolution cannot be said to be in vain, But arguments against something YOU believe to be non-existent only shows that you acknowledge that there is at least the CHANCE that it DOES exist, Which is really kind of an ignorant thing to do if you have NO belief in its existence.

To say that there is no foundation for God to exist is to say that there is absolutely NO existing foundation FOR God to exist, Which would be a totally ignorant thing to say. If you believe that God does NOT exist then you are saying that there is NO foundation for His existence. So again, I ask, "Why are you arguing against something you believe to have NO existence? " I'd truly like to know.

The question I personally would ask you is, "Prove to me that God cannot exist? " And, Don't say "I don't have to prove He doesn't exist. Christians have to prove He does exist " Well, It is mighty convenient to ask for proof that something exists and offer no proof of why it cannot exist.

Peace c96;
Posted by canis 1 month ago
canis
Why? Because its a dream you are forced to dream. If you are forced to dream a surtain way. . You take the easy way out. . . A la. . God sad so in an old book I had to read. . So thats just it. .
Posted by backwardseden 1 month ago
backwardseden
"If atheism is true, It can never be proven correct
If atheism is false, It can be proven wrong
If God belief is true, It can be proven true
If God belief is false, It can never be proven false
By definition, Atheism is an idea that will never be proven but theism by definition could be proven. Is it more rational to adhere to a nonanswerable concept or hold a position that has a possible answer? "

That's not an argument to debunk atheism.

"Atheists are too stupid to recognize that debunked means your argument CAN NEVER be wrong because they admit within their debunking that their "debunking" may possibly be wrong. "

OK Mr. Smarty pants with a coke bottle to his jerk off society zit on his prick who CLEARLY WITHOUT QUESTION does not have the foggiest idea what an atheist is, And instead have to invent excuses in his losing argument, Because all it is, Is defensive posturing and nothing else.
Atheists can and do admit when "we" are wrong. It is YOU, The puny stepped-on religious who cannot admit that they are wrong. Why? Dare your god be imperfect to say "I don't know" for something? Of course not. Atheists can and do say "I don't know" all---the---time. It's how the learning process grows. Now crawl back to sleep during a nuclear war. Dare you be woken up as the bombs hit? Nah.
Posted by skipsaweirdo 1 month ago
skipsaweirdo
""Faith is the reason people give when they don't have evidence. ":. . . Prove it by a bowing the evidence you used to claim this". . . . This should read "by showing. . . . " not "by a bowing". . . . I'm so blazed it's ridiculous.
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