The Instigator
Purushadasa
Pro (for)
The Contender
verh0fstadt
Con (against)

Without God, There Could Be No Objective Morality

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Debate Round Forfeited
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/16/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 2,070 times Debate No: 103440
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (38)
Votes (0)

 

Purushadasa

Pro

Without God,
there could be no objective standard
by which to hold anyone accountable for anything;
therefore without God there could be no objective morality.
verh0fstadt

Con

This is wrong. Systems of punishment were well integrated into society and there was a sense of "justice" - infact, the Romans had the Corpus Juris, which lasted for hundreds of years and was an inspiration for all.

It is true that in the Bible, there are the Ten Commandments - which have worked to assist our foundation of law - but the truth is that most of these commandments, save for "do not worship false idols", and other insignificant and irrelevant commandments were not the prime mover or an initial source for the eventual development of the legal system across Christendom and the world. Even Constantine, who was the first Roman Christian, did not fully implement the commands of God - and we do not do it today, nor do Christians, because then they wouldn't eat shellfish, as is commanded in the New Testament.

There was objective morality developed by the Romans and the Greeks which eventually became more civilised and less backwards - but God didn't help this.
Debate Round No. 1
Purushadasa

Pro

Thank you all for so many kind and intelligent posts.

My engagement on this site was intended, from the beginning, to be a nothing more than a temporary experiment.

I didn't know specifically when it was going to end, until this evening: My girlfriend, Bhaktin Caroline, said something to me that inspired me to make tonight the end of the experiment.

Bhaktin Caroline matters much, much more than this website.

If you are still feeling overly attached after I leave, I apologize, but I will still be leaving nonetheless: I won't be engaging in any further debates, arguments, or conversations on this site, and nor will I be reading any further posts uploaded by its kind and intelligent members -- starting now.

You can argue amongst yourselves, from now on.

Good-bye! =)
verh0fstadt

Con

Gl hf, I suppose.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
38 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 31 through 38 records.
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
platoandaristotle wrote:

"I am attached to stupidity."

That is the first true thing that you have said since we started talking a week or so ago. LOL SMH =)

We are done here. Bye!
Posted by platoandaristotle 3 years ago
platoandaristotle
I am attached to stupidity. I like to point it out.
Why do you have to respond to everything I say? You're actually kinda like https://goodmorninggloucester.files.wordpress.com... ...
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
platoandaristotle (AKAhttps://goodmorninggloucester.files.wordpress.com...):

After falsely claiming that you would ignore me and not comment to me again, you have, so far, taken the time to formulate and upload no less than three comments to me.

This is evidence for my assertion that believers in atheist Dogma are natural-born liars.

It also provides evidence for my assertion that believers in atheist Dogma tend to stick to us Theists and be way too attached, just like feces tends to stick to the bottoms of people's boots and be way too attached.

Please view this picture:

https://goodmorninggloucester.files.wordpress.com...

...and tell me what kind of stick I need to scrape the sticky believer in atheist Dogma called platoandaristotle off the bottom of my shoe. Why are you so attached to me, even after you threatened to "ignore" me??? When will you actually be able to bring yourself to ignore me? Probably never."

You're beginning to stink up the place.

You are a liar and a charlatan, and just like feces on the bottom of a boot, you are way too attached.
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
platoandaristotle (AKA https://goodmorninggloucester.files.wordpress.com......):

After falsely claiming that you would ignore me and not comment to me again, you have, so far, taken the time to formulate and upload no less than three comments to me.

This is evidence for my assertion that believers in atheist Dogma are natural-born liars.

It also provides evidence for my assertion that believers in atheist Dogma tend to stick to us Theists and be way too attached, just like feces tends to stick to the bottoms of people's boots and be way too attached.

Please view this picture:

https://goodmorninggloucester.files.wordpress.com......

...and tell me what kind of stick I need to scrape the sticky believer in atheist Dogma called platoandaristotle off the bottom of my shoe. Why are you so attached to me, even after you threatened to "ignore" me??? When will you actually be able to bring yourself to ignore me? Probably never."

You're beginning to stink up the place.

You are a liar and a charlatan, and just like feces, you are way too attached.
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
platoandaristotle (AKA https://goodmorninggloucester.files.wordpress.com...):

After falsely claiming that you would ignore me and not comment to me again, you have, so far, taken the time to formulate and upload no less than three comments to me.

This is evidence for my assertion that beliebers in atheist Dogma are natural-born liars.

It also provides evidence for my assertion that believers in atheist Dogma tend to stick to us Theists and be way too attached, just like feces tends to stick to the bottoms of people's boots and be way too attached.

Please view this picture:

https://goodmorninggloucester.files.wordpress.com...

...and tell me what kind of stick I need to scrape the sticky believer in atheist Dogma called platoandaristotle off the bottom of my shoe. Why are you so attached to me, even after you threatened to "ignore" me??? When will you actually be able to bring yourself to ignore me? Probably never."

You're beginning to stink up the place.

You are a liar and a charlatan, and just like feces, you are way too attached.
Posted by platoandaristotle 3 years ago
platoandaristotle
I will refrain from debating, but...
Recommended link: https://en.wikipedia.org...
This might come up in your deate
Posted by Purushadasa 3 years ago
Purushadasa
Someone wrote:

"It's only through abandoning certain widespread religious ideas that progress towards a truly just and consistent morality is possible."

No it isn't.

" There's an ongoing need to develop and refine our moral understanding. "

There's a need to develop and refine yours, yes.

"The problem is the false and morally corrupting idea that the lawmaker is perfect."

I never stated that he was, so that is a straw man logical fallacy on your part.

"Moral behaviour is doing what's right"

Without God, nobody could make an objective distinction between right and wrong.

"The worry that, without religion or gods, we've no basis on which to discuss morality, is without foundation."

I didn't express such a worry, so that is another straw man logical fallacy on your part.

" When classing harmless things as immoral results in persecution we've reason to condemn the misclassification."

Without God, nobody could make an objective distinction between the harmless and the harmful.

"moral development is in fact something to which the scientific approach"

Without God, there could be no science.

" contributes far more and far more reliably due to its emphasis on reasoned logic"

Without God, there could be no reason and no logic.

" and evidence"

Without God, there could be no evidence for anything.

, "the tools that help us discern what's true and false"

Without God, nobody could make an objective distinction between the true and the false.

"To make informed moral choices and therefore moral progress religion needs science"

No it doesn't.

", but science does not need religion."

I never claimed that science needed religion, so that is yet another straw man logical fallacy on your part.
Posted by missmedic 3 years ago
missmedic
We live in a continuously changing world with new kinds of moral problem being generated all the time and much harmful ignorance still to overcome. It's only through abandoning certain widespread religious ideas that progress towards a truly just and consistent morality is possible. There's an ongoing need to develop and refine our moral understanding. The problem is the false and morally corrupting idea that the lawmaker is perfect. It's corrupting because, in causing us to accept unjust laws, it leaves us defending the indefensible. We don't base morality on revelation from authority, that would render us merely obedient. Moral behaviour is doing what's right, not what we're told unless what we're told is also what's right. The worry that, without religion or gods, we've no basis on which to discuss morality, is without foundation. When classing harmless things as immoral results in persecution we've reason to condemn the misclassification. So often declared -'the territory of religion'- moral development is in fact something to which the scientific approach contributes far more and far more reliably due to its emphasis on reasoned logic and evidence, the tools that help us discern what's true and false and without which one can't even formulate a valid argument. To make informed moral choices and therefore moral progress religion needs science, but science does not need religion.
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