The Instigator
proneon267
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
jrardin12
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Worshipping God is not required

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,484 times Debate No: 119858
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (66)
Votes (0)

 

proneon267

Pro

Even though someone may have created this universe or us but we don't need to worship them. If someone thinks that we should serve God just because God has created us then this is just master slave mentality. Most religions emphasise on worshipping god and doing a ton of rituals that just try to make the common people obliged to the religious leader.
jrardin12

Con

The God of the Bible does not require you to worship Him. If He did you would not be alive right now. He actually loves you even though you disobey His commands. Yes, God created you, But He gives you the right to choose not to worship Him. I worship Him out of love for what He has done for me and for what He has in the future for me.
Debate Round No. 1
proneon267

Pro

People worship God only because of their fear for things like hell and eternal damnation. Almost all christianity churches make the followers fear the God to worship him. If God is really our creator why cannot he just read our mind that we all admire him. Why do people like the Pope exist? Who literally lives a life of a king.
jrardin12

Con

I don't worship God because I fear Him. I worship Him because I love Him. Yes, I didn't want to go to Hell, But He gave His life for me on the cross so I can go to Heaven. God is not willing that any should die, But that all should come to repentance. Not everyone admires God, Many people hate Him. Just ask an atheist. The pope exists because Catholicism is a money and power grabbing religion and yes, They use fear to intimidate. Catholicism is not real Christianity. Real Christianity is Bible-based.
Debate Round No. 2
proneon267

Pro

"But He gave His life for me on the cross so I can go to Heaven. "

if God really created us then why can't he just forgive for just an apple? And if Adam and eve were the first people on earth and they did the sin then why did jesus wait till the 6-4 BC after many civilisations has come and passed? Was he deciding whether he will take those tortures or not? Why couldn't he came down at that moment when Adam and eve when did the sin to forgive them? If God has created us then Why do people need to repent for their mistakes? Couldn't the God correct their mistakes and make them understand to not do that mistake again? If he created us then why shall he demand us to repent? Suppose if your child eats the cake, Brought for guests then will you say to your child to do worship you and repent and cry and take harsh physical torture for forgiveness?

And lastly how can he die if he is a God and the creator of life?
jrardin12

Con

jrardin12 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
proneon267

Pro

proneon267 forfeited this round.
jrardin12

Con

jrardin12 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
proneon267

Pro

proneon267 forfeited this round.
jrardin12

Con

jrardin12 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
66 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Thoht 3 years ago
Thoht
"He doesn't require you to follow his commands. He loves you. "

I too send people I love to eternal damnation.
Posted by Skye2468 3 years ago
Skye2468
backwardseden - Alright instead of arguing multiple random subjects. Instead I want to ask you something. Why do you think we shouldn't get punished? Why do you think you, Or even me hasn't done wrong? You always say not only you, But even I haven't done anything wrong, Why is that?
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
More importantly did they get it right as an updated version to what these characters would say in this day and age, Or even back then when the translations were updated? So once again god if as stated was reasonably intelligent, In which he"s clearly not, Would ---never--- use text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible because he would have certainly have foreseen all of these major faults. Oh and btw, Nobody, Not even you can even prove that this god of the bible exists. So why believe?
Now I'm sure you can think of other reasons, Hopefully at least 5, As to why YOUR so-called god would ---never--- even dream about using text as a form of communication, The worst form of communication possible.
OK you asked a question. . . " If text isn't a good form of communication, Then what form of communication would you suggest? "
"Well, How's about your god comin' on down here and talking to us? " Matt Dillahunty That's one way. There's who knows how many others? Wow. If you cannot think of even some of them, Then I feel sorry for you because that means you truly are completely lost.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
with each having totally different meanings.
* In Isaiah 45:7 KJV "I form the light, And create darkness: I make peace, And create evil: I the Lord do all these things. " In the NIV version its "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, The Lord, Do all these things. " In the NLT its "I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, The Lord, Am the one who does these things. In the ESV "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity;I am the Lord, Who does all these things. " The words "evil" and "disaster" and "bad" and "calamity" are completely 4 completely different words that have 0% of nothing to do with each other and completely change the meaning of the verses. With each different verse, The messages are completely different. The synonyms of each word don"t even match. .
* Proverbs 15:24 KJV "The way of life is above to the wise, That he may depart from hell beneath. " NIV "The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead. " NLT "The path of life leads upward for the wise; they leave the grave behind. "Now what do those very same verses and thus their translations have ANYTHING to do with each other?
Those are just a few examples by mere translation errors alone in which is impossible to fix and get one message in one book so that everybody understands the same message.
Even more proof your god would ---never--- use text? Within those translations and copies throughout the generations, Characters and what they have said, Especially with its leading characters, Namely god and christ, Their quotes/ verses have changed over time. Oh really? Who has the right and or know how to change ANY of god"s language to update it to whatever they felt like and or to amputate it into ---their--- language? Did they consult god and or jesus to see if this was OK? Of course not.
Posted by backwardseden 3 years ago
backwardseden
@Vorador - I truly have no idea in my skull cap why I am even bothering with you. It is truly impossible to reason with you with the simplest of common sense, Logic, Thinking and rationalizing. The same is 100% true with Skye. After all he thinks that all of man deserves to be punished by his god especially for doing no wrong, Especially himself. WRONG
OK I will answer your question, But first a few things. . . Thoght, Omar2345, And myself have literally blown you out of the water. . . I mean its like you actually want people to hate you. Jackgilbert most certainly does. And he wants to drag as many as he can down with him. Hey you followed in his footsteps with answersingenesis. Org in believing in any possible way that its some kind of truth. How can it possibly be when it mentions Ken Ham? How can it possibly be when it has precious little to do with genesis in the first place and there's almost nothing scientific about it? Will the composers of the website ---ever--- present their findings to ---any--- scientific community of merit from around the world? Why no.
Of course not. Its because they know that they are gibberish and there's nothing they can prove because all they have to go on is faith and faith is not evidence.
The bible is also not truth in proving your god at all. Here's a nice little video that came out a couple of weeks ago to prove it.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=FJiNtQW3vHs - Talk Heathen Determine if a Holy Book Is Reliable

Your bible has a good 1, 000 supermassive hypocritical contradictions in it thus making it unreadable. Google it. Your bible has sloppy translations. Translations that deliver different messages. Here's some prime examples. . .
* In the Bishop"s bible, The one before the KJV, The word "Tyrant" was used I don"t know how many times (its at least 400 from what completed records show) and then in the KJV that was replaced by "King". WHAT? Tyrant and KIng are two different and totally apples and oranges
Posted by K_Michael_Tolman 3 years ago
K_Michael_Tolman
@proneon
"if God really created us then why can't he just forgive for just an apple? "
First of all, It wasn't an apple, Though it is often depicted that way. The knowledge of Good and Evil is what separates us from animals and is the most Godlike thing about us.
As for why he couldn't forgive us, Consider this. As long as we keep our covenants with God, He is bound to keep them as well. When Adam and Eve partook of the fruit, They had disobeyed God, Despite having a personal relationship with Him.
This will probably bring me a lot of hate, But I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. In our scriptures, God's plan in bringing us to Earth is so that we can have bodies, Which we did not have before. In this time of mortal existence, We have the agency to choose between good and evil. If you live righteously, And ask for forgiveness of your sins, He will bless you. Because Adam and Eve disobeyed Him, He could not let them live in the Garden of Eden anymore. The only way that we can come back to Him is if we keep our side of His promises, Which includes keeping the Sabbath Day holy, And respecting and worshiping God.
Posted by Vorador 3 years ago
Vorador
omar2345 I wondered if that's what happened. I won't bother you anymore.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Vorador
the rebuttal I gave to your comment to me was towards you.
Before that it was directed at Skye2468.

Basically everything before "like the Bible says" is directed to Skye2468.
The only comment addressed to is the entire thing I wrote that started with "omar2345 some things. . . "
At the end of that comment I did not realise you had a question for me which is why I thought you were rebutting to something that I did not rebut of yours. Which is what happened and I rebutted your comment which was directed to me.
Posted by Vorador 3 years ago
Vorador
omar2345 I won't respond to everything you said because I think we've had a mix-up. If you look at the page before this, You will see that I asked backwardseden what form of communication would be better than text. You address the comment immediately after that to me. However, You just said that all your comments were for Skye. Was the comment you addressed to me also meant for Skye, And you just wrote the wrong thing? If so, I won't interfere any further in this comment section.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
"omar2345 Some things do get lost in translation, But I think making that claim has more to do with a lack of faith in the translators than a lack of faith in the Bible. "
This is a problem because God thought it was a good idea that humans would write it.

"His plan is to allow people the choice of believing in Him or not. "
Conflicts with God loving us and saving us. It is not a 50/50 split. It would be more like God would want us to have free will more than wanting to save us or God wants to save us more than giving us free will.

"If He sent direct divine messages to everyone, No one would have the freedom to choose whether or not to believe. "
Some people having divine intervention okay then? Not as bad as everyone? To me God has already intervened and everything else does not matter as much as God intervened the first time so why is God afraid divinely intervene on everyone? Because free will? The problem is that God did not care about a select few peoples free will but does for some reason care about all humans. Which I don't see why.

"He guided them throughout the whole process of writing it so He knew they wouldn't write the wrong thing. "
The difference is God knows if someone would accept it and if God showing up is the determining factor. God knowing this allowed Its divine intervention to influence people in writing the Bible but that is okay but divinely intervening on every single other person is not.

"Your comment doesn't really answer my question"
What question?

"I only wanted to know what backwardseden would suggest instead of text. "
My comments were directed at Skye2468 not you or maybe I must have said something in another debate about the Bible text while you also being there. I don't think so.
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