The Instigator
mosc
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Debater2018
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Xtianity just another example of idol worship

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after 1 vote the winner is...
Debater2018
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/14/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,060 times Debate No: 117718
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

mosc

Pro

Howdy, You're opinion about this vile dead religion interests me. Honestly i do not understand how any person on this planet can not utterly abhor and despise this abomination. But clearly your perspective - an alien foreign perspective which i do not know.
Debater2018

Con

Since recorded history, Every other religion developed out of the fear of nature. Except the Judeo/Christian. The Jewish religion addressed the outward physical tokens aimed at one's conscience. The Christian religion addresses the guilt of one's conscience as already having been cleansed.

Both use Genesis 3:15 as the starting point. Where the one who is to restore the family. . . . God and His children-

' And I will put enmity between thee (serpent Satan) and the woman, And between they seed and her seed; he shall crush thy head, And thou shall strike his heel. '

The separation between the Jewish and Christian religion concerning this restorer centers in Isaiah chapter 53. The Jewish teachers teach that this chapter is referring to the nation of the Jews. The Christians teach that it is referring to the restorer (Messiah) whose burial cloth we have in our possession today-

'Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, And as a root out of the dry ground: he hath no form or comeliness; and when we shall see him, There is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, And acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him: he was despised and we esteemed him not.
Surely he hath born our briefs, And carried our sorrows: yet we esteem him stricken, Smitten of God, And afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him: and with his stripes we are healed. ' (Is. 53:1-5)

In Isaiah chapter 2 it is written how the Messiah (restorer) will teach His children who come to Him from every country, The light, Which is the perfect 'law of liberty' (James 1:25) and the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10).

We see that Christianity came out of Judaism from the New Covenant (Testament) God had made. It is very different from the pagan idol worshipping that was done long ago and still done in some parts of the world today.
Debate Round No. 1
mosc

Pro

c/p: "The Jewish religion addressed the outward physical tokens aimed at one's conscience. "

Utter none sense. The revelation of the Torah at Sinai, Which the Goyim never accepted not then till today, Revealed the Evil Inclination within the human heart.

c/p: "Both use Genesis 3:15 as the starting point. '

Bunk. The concept of exile starts with Adam passes on to Noach and then unto Avram. Its a major theme which the vile Xtian religion knows nothing about. . . Ooops Xtians exist in exile waiting for the salvation of the 2nd coming. The curse of exile the Xtian religion drowns. These arrogant fools declared themselves as the 'new israel' -- justice now Jews rule our homeland and Goyim sink in the mud waiting for the 2nd coming of a myth.

c/p: "Isaiah chapter 53"

Bunk. The metaphor of the suffering servant refers to the exile of Israel from our homelands. Xtians have no portion in the Torah faith, They never accepted the revelation of the Torah at Sinai.

Moshe anointed Aaron as Moshiach. The prophet Sh'muel anointed David to fill the function of Moshe the law giver. Proof, King Shaul lost the kingdom b/c he failed to keep the commandments. Israel lives as "the nation of priests" b/c Moshe anointed Aaron Moshiach. Xtianity's pathetic substitution theology. . . Keep waiting for the 2nd coming of jesus son of Zeus.

c/p: "We see that Christianity came out"

Of Greek mythology and Roman writers expressing their counterfeit 'wolf dressed in the clothing of Jews"
Debater2018

Con

Isaiah 53 is not a metaphor, Not figurative. Read the chapter carefully. It does not remotely suggest that this man is to be understood as a group of people or a 'nation'.

Isaiah 53 is the starting point of Genesis 3:15
The Jewish leaders could not accept the idea of a suffering Messiah. Therefore, The Jewish people have been stuck with their embarrassing interpretation to give to those who inquire of them concerning this scripture.
This is where this DEBATE is going to focus. The chapter of Isaiah 53. To focus elsewhere is to just 'chase rabbit's' so to speak.

It would be more polite if you would just use the term 'non-Jews' instead of the religious slang words for those not Jewish.
Debate Round No. 2
mosc

Pro

C? P: "
Debater2018

"Isaiah 53 is not a metaphor, Not figurative. Read the chapter carefully. It does not remotely suggest that this man is to be understood as a group of people or a 'nation'. "

Bunk. The latter prophet does not introduce a topic outside of the Torah. A) Moshe anointed Aaron and his House as Moshiach for all eternity. B) The theme of g'lut/exile begins with the story - a metaphor - of Adam and Eve being sent out of Eden unto exile, Continues with the story of Noach - a metaphor - being sent into exile into the Ark, Then continues to the story of Avram - a metaphor - told by God that his as yet unborn children would suffer oppression in a foreign land -- that's exile.

The entire book of Isaiah tells how Israel has abandoned faith in God and worshiped other Gods. How does the Torah refer to this? As idolatry. How does the Torah warn of the consequences of Idolatry? Exile.
Why does the Torah bring the curse of exile upon the entire nation? To cause the nation to return to t'shuva/repentance. Therefore based upon this consistent theme - YES the entire chapter you quoted refers to Israel going into exile. Your empty declaration that the chapter you quoted does not have this interpretation requires that you must refute the proofs which i have brought. If you can not refute these Biblical proofs - you have not brought a single proof other than what you want the text to mean based upon your personal beliefs. THAT'S NOT A PROOF.

c/p: "The Jewish leaders could not accept the idea of a suffering Messiah"

Bunk. You know absolutely nothing about Jews. Your Bible never once brings the Name of the God of Israel. This violates the 1st and 2nd commandments of Sinai. You know nothing about Torah or the later religious development of the religion of Judaism developed during the early middle ages! For example: [a statement requires some type of proof for it to merit respect. You never to date back up any of your empty declarations with anything approaching a logical step by step argument. How old are you? 6! ] What's the difference between a Torah commandment and a Talmudic mitzva? You have no portion with the Jewish faith because you nor any other Xtian throughout all recorded history has never accepted the Torah revelation at Sinai.

The Jewish people have returned and rule our homeland. The Church for over 2000 years preached that Jews were cursed for killing God and would wander the earth as despised abhorred people until they accepted jesus son of Zeus as messiah. But we Jews now rule our land once more and you Xtians wait for the 2nd coming of the son of Zeus. So who now exists as an abhorred despise retched piece of scum filth wandering the face of the earth as exiles? YOU and all vile Xtians like yourself. The son of Zeus can not remove the sin of your exile! You shall die and go straight to hell. No atonement for your sins. Grace can not heal the wounds of your sins, For all eternity you shall burn and Satan shall stick a prickly pineapple up your butt every day.

Your ignorance of Hebrew means that you rely solely upon vile worthless translations. Goy is a word employed throughout the Torah. Avraham the Torah refers to as the father of Goyim/nations. Your pathetic ignorance, I have met sticks off a tree who have more Biblical knowledge than you.
Debater2018

Con

Now let us focus on the second half of Isaiah chapter 53.

Starting with verse 6- 'All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to His own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. 7. He was oppressed, And he was afflicted, Yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, So he opened not his mouth. 8. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9. And he made his grave with the wicked, And with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, Neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, He shall see his seed, He shall prolong his days, And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11. He shall see the travail of his soul, And shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many: for he shall bear their inequities. 12. Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, And he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, And he made intercession for the transgressors. '

This chapter is absolute proof that the Messiah was the humble servant who was crucified in 33 A. D. In Jerusalem. As the New Testament teaches, The church that Jesus established (not the commercial Catholic nor those Protestants who worship their great buildings) was handed the kingdom that the Jews first held. (Micah 4:8)

That church was never extinguished and has constantly existed since that Pentecost day (Acts chapter 2) in various parts of the world.

Therefore, Even according to the Old Testament, The new kingdom (Christianity) is not just another example of idol worship.
Debate Round No. 3
mosc

Pro

You arrogant Xtians know nothing. YOUR see here, I can quote what's written, Therefore the text means as I believe it to intend - haughty none sense. Dude the Middle Ages have long sensed past into oblivion. You arrogant xtian fools no longer have a sword at the throat of the Jewish people!

Your vile translations of the Hebrew T'NaCH merit total and utter contempt. Ignorant bore, The Books of the Prophets never had chapters and verses - that's an Xtian addition. All logic stands upon the foundation of Order. The "organization" of the Books of the Prophets N E V E R spun around the artificially imposed Xtian none sense religion. The Books of the NaCH/Prophets and Holy Writings/ operates around a completely different Order arrangement - known as sugiot.

The Talmud, Codified in about 450CE also follows the tradition of sugiot Order. Your horrid and despicable dead religion A) totally ignored the arranged Order of the NaCH literature and B) therefore remains totally oblivious to the Oral Torah logic system revealed at Sinai 40 days after the sin of the Golden Calf wherein Israel thinking that Moshe the prophet had died demanded from Aaron a Way for post Moshe Israel to systematically and logically interpret the Written Torah - the Constitution of the Republic.

By contrast, Your dead despicable religion perverted the T'NaCH literature to fit as their Old Testament in this horrid new religion which worships the imaginary myth Jesus son of Zeus as God. Isaiah as a prophet has no power to over rule or contradict the Torah Constitution. Like duh!

Hillel HaGadol, Or Hillel HaZaken, Also known as Hillel HaBavli: born, According to tradition, In Babylon c. 110 BCE, Died 10 CE in Jerusalem) a Jewish Torah scholar and leader; his instruction on how to interpret the Torah stands to this day as once of the most influential figures in all of Jewish history. Hillel taught Jewish logic. The Oral Torah which the Xtian idiot church denies, Logic. Both the NaCH and the Talmud codifications exist based upon this unique logic system which the evil morons of Xtianity deny.

Hillel stream lined his rules of logic by which to interpret the Masoret/Traditions sealed by the fore fathers of Israel - Torah Prophets Writings Talmud Midrash Siddur - the Sages of Israel sealed these texts, Therein giving all generations of the Jewish people an identical Masoret/Tradition, By which to build faith.

The Xtian fool translators, In their zeal to translate the rejected T'NaCH of the Jews - they call it to this day "old testament' - these babbling idiots organized the Books of the T'NaCH literature in a way that suited their tastes and interests. Order changes how a person thinks and perceives reality. For example the letters which make the word God, If re arranged make also make the word Dog! Such subtleties the Xtian brain dead translators totally ignored.

Hillel the Elder based his 7 rules of logical interpretation on the assumption that Jews - forget the Goyim, Torah instruction does not apply to these foreign aliens b/c Goyim to this very day never accepted the Torah revelation at Sinai. You outsiders looking in only know how to jabber "about" a topic; fools of your kind never attempt to learn "through" a subject.

Deductive and Inductive logic requires the skill to make comparisons and contrasts. The formal study of any literature operates by making "measured" comparisons and contrasts. Brain dead Goyim love to read their bibles, But virtually never attempt to learn that literature as a formal discipline. The inflated egotism of Goyim, Perhaps best summed up as: "DO NOT CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS. . . I HAVE MY PERSONAL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS! " Religion for Xtians, "do you personally believe brother! " Faith of fools revolves around the ego of I. The first word of Xtian belief systems - irregardless of the creed Catholic or Protestant- the word I. I -- has nothing to do with objective logic. In fact I -- perverts all logic by skewing its results in favor of I.

The Talmud stands upon the foundations of T'NaCH. Duh. The Talmud exists as a Common Law codification of Jewish law. Therefore the T'NaCH functions upon the exact same principle upon which stands all Common Law legal systems - precedents! This means, That for a person to learn a "sugia" of NaCH, Formal learning - based upon Jewish logic - absolutely requires a measured comparison of a sugia of NaCH to similar sugiot of NaCH.

Hillel's hermeneutics stand upon 7 basic rules. Its called the fundamentals, Of learning how to learn.
1. M30;al (M31;ol) wa-M17;omer: "Argumentum a minori ad majus" or "a majori ad minus"; corresponding to the scholastic proof a fortiori.
2. Gezerah shawah: Argument from analogy. Biblical passages containing synonyms or homonyms are subject, However much they differ in other respects, To identical definitions and applications.
3. Binyan ab mi-katub eM17;ad: Application of a provision found in one passage only to passages which are related to the first in content but do not contain the provision in question.
4. Binyan ab mi-shene ketubim: The same as the preceding, Except that the provision is generalized from two Biblical passages.
5. Kelal u-PeraM89; and PeraM89; u-kelal: Definition of the general by the particular, And of the particular by the general.
6. Ka-yoN27;e bo mi-maM31;om aM17;er: Similarity in content to another Scriptural passage.
7. Dabar ha-lamed me-'inyano: Interpretation deduced from the context.

These basic Amendments to the 13 middot of Oral Torah logic which Moshe the Prophet orally heard at Horev 40 on the Day of Atonement, According to Hillel interpreting the Written Torah requires total reliance upon Jewish schools of logic and totally excludes the classic ancient Greek philosophy of logic taught by Plato and Aristotle.

You puff up your vain ego by quoting from Isaiah 53, As if Jews never before read those p'sukim/verses. Idiot. Based upon the logic of #6. & #7. , I introduce the following Amendment to these logical rules. (1) Oral Torah middot which Moshe the prophet originally heard on Mr. Horev (2) by making a comparison of one sugia of NaCH, Specifically in this case Isaiah to other sugiot of Isaiah containing the identical Oral Torah middot. Based upon the rule: learn the Torah by means of bringing close precedents.

The sugia of Isaiah which contains the specific verses which you quoted starts [employing your chapter/verse system] 52:12 to 53:12. This Order of sugiot patterns the Written Torah which has an organization around sugiot. The Written Torah serves as a precedent for how the Books of the Prophets organized their Order. The sugia which you quote specific verses therefrom contains 4 Oral Torah middot. [Its not my purpose to teach Oral Torah to a foreign alien outsider like yourself. Therefore the specific names of these 4 middot shall I shall not list].

Now employing the search for a valid precedent [T'NaCH stands upon the principle of Common Law. Common Law stands upon precedents], I must locate other sugiot which contain these identical 4 middot. The premise works like this: if i throw a 2lb rock into a still body of water, The ripple effect produced by the impact of the stone upon the tranquil waters. . . That if i take this identical stone and throw it upon a separate tranquil body of water, That this stone shall produce as similar ripple effect. Therefore, By this premise, If i find other sugiot of Isaiah which contain these exact same middot as found in the sugia from which you quoted, Then the 2nd "witness" from Isaiah give me the depth by which i can comprehend the intent of the sugia from which you quoted. Meaning I have found a valid close precedent permitting me to interpret the intent of the Framer of our sugia in question.

It took about 2 minutes to locate another sugia in the Book of Isaiah which contains these exact 4 Oral Torah middot which the God of Israel orally communicated to the prophet Moshe on Yom Kippor/the day of Atonement/ 40 days following the sin of the Golden Calf. The sugia: 26:1 to 26:10.

Earlier when asked by you about the meaning of Isaiah 53, My response: that it referred to Israel in exile. I shall now amend that explanation by adding the comparison to the Jews of Germany and Europe during the horror years of the Nazi 3rd Reich. Three years after the 1000 year Reich stood in total ruins and destruction, The inferior race slaughtered by the European sub human barbarians stood nose to nose with 5 Arab armies aided by Britain and defeated them in war. The Europeans experienced total shock! How could a people whom these same European monsters murdered 75% of European Jewry, 3 years later totally crush 5 Arab armies aided with the military assistance of Britain? !

For over 2000 years Jews endured the taunts of Xtians, Prayers made every Easter, Followed by a pogrom, For the "perfidious" or "treacherous" Jews! The wicked vile scum church declared that the cursed Jews must forever wander the earth as despised and abhorred exiles for the sin of killing God.

Justice! Now Jews rule our own country and the evil wicked church stands in total exile - waiting for the 2nd coming of jesus son of Zeus! Goyim Xtians have to portion in the Torah/T'NaCH faith. When they die, Their bodies feed the worms, Because they have not now or ever any portion into the world to come. They pray to a mythical imaginary man/god and we Jews have mocked these ignorant arrogant stupid scum bag fools for over 2000 years!
Debater2018

Con

As has been shown in this DEBATE, Isaiah chapter 53 is the death-nell for anyone trying to prove that the Jewish religion is valid and the Christian religion is invalid, According to even the Old Testament.

It wasn't enough for my opponent to give secular history behind his man-made doctrine, His objective was to prove that the doctrine of Isaiah 53 was incorrect. This he could not do. For the ancient Hebrew language of Isaiah 53 was correctly translated.
Debate Round No. 4
mosc

Pro

This Xtian responded to a 9000 word response about 10 minutes. HaHaHaHaHa. Notice he failed to address any of the talking points which i brought up. . . That's what he calls a debate?

My previous response brought as a precedent an entirely different sugia of the Book of Isaiah. Making a comparison between the 2 sugiot, This depth analysis permits the words of Isaiah to interpret the words of Isaiah.

But my Xtian opponent wants none of it. Now Xtianity stands in cursed exile and Jews mock these devil pigs - measure for measure as they mocked Jews for over 2000 years. Jews rule our home land and have restored our Government in Israel. Xtians by contrast languish in exile waiting for their imaginary man: jesus son of Zeus. May these vile Xtians rot together with their despicable religion of hate.

Europe has no more "Good Name", The Holocaust proves Xtians as evil wicked scum devils worthy of being gathered up and shot. A blessing: may the bombing of Dresden soon befall all Xtian supporters of the wicked evil church.
Debater2018

Con

There is no doubt that the Jewish people desperately want a re-interpretation of Isaiah 53. However, What that re-interpretation consists of is a man-made doctrine, Which no real Apologist will chase after.

The DEBATE was about Christianity being labeled as a false idol and the Jewish religion being the true religion. The scriptures from the Old Testament itself put that charge out of it's misery. Since my opponent could not deal with Isaiah 53, All I had to do was keep introducing it.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
My douche bag Xtian opponent compares to the dude who repeats himself over and over and over ad nauseum/ad infinitum.
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
correction: instead of "Goyim Xtians have to portion in the Torah/T'NaCH faith. " The typo corrected: "Goyim Xtians have no portion in the Torah/T'NaCH faith. "
Posted by mosc 3 years ago
mosc
Monotheism flagrantly violates the second commandment of Sinai and stands in total disharmony with the story of Moshe sent to Egypt to war against the Gods worshiped in Egypt. The same with Yehosua the student of Moshe the prophet who crossed the Jordan river to make war against the Gods worshiped by the nations of Canaan. All the prophets who condemned Israel for worshiping other Gods. Monotheism stands in stark contrast to Hinduism. So bunk on monotheism and the vile Koran.

The noise new testament originally written in Greek. Christ is the Greek for messiah. Jesus that's the name written in the Greek manuscripts of all the noise testament. This silly recasting jesus son of Zeus as "yahshua" - its about as absurd as the fact that all bible translations never once bring the Name of the God of Israel. The popular none sense of calling the God of Israel yahweh or what ever none sense; no Jew in our entire history as a people has ever once prayed to this none sense name yahweh. That's idolatry.
Posted by bundlesofpieces 3 years ago
bundlesofpieces
I believe that the Trinity Translators who had not produced a single " AUTHORIZED " version of the Greek New Testament or Old Testament until nearly 2000 years after Yahshua - have produced - the Catholic and Protestant translations that ( are both perversions ) and incorrect - from - the original.

But in fact - The Oneness - and singularity - Of The Godhead is very clear in the Scriptures.

There is never, Ever such a term or concept of a Duality or a Triunity. The scriptures clearly declare that God is - One, Meaning - ( 1. )

The Oneness Faith - is very clear in the Bible. There is no trinity or duality and the purpose Of The Lord Yahoshua The Anointing is to MANIFEST the Spirit Of The Father in Human flesh. Yahoshua here in Heb 1:3 Is the brightness of his glory and the image of his person.

They are not two, Three, Four or any other number but one singular Person. One God, One Lord. - The Father, The Word, And The Spirit are 1.

The Manuscripts clearly demonstrate that BAPTISM must Always to be Performed
in the Name Of The Father also The Son also The Holy Spirit.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, And be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
GA 3:27. . . . . . For as many of you as having been BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ.
1CO 1:13. . . . . . Is Christ divided? . . Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
RO 6:3. . . . . . Know ye not, That so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?
AC 19:5. . . . . . When they heard this, They were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus.
AC 10:48. . . . . . And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 years ago
dsjpk5
moscDebater2018Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro called Con a piece of "scum" in round three. This is poor conduct.

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